Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:00 am

Captain Awesome wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:37 am
It's a shame the broadcast audio has all of this associated drama with it because I love that I've been able to remux my R2s with the superior audio.

If that's as good as DBZ gets I can live with it.
yeah honestly shit kinda sucks lol. i thought it was the coolest thing in the world that there was finally good audio out for Z, and as i did more and more research about the topic i saw how much drama and toxicity there was about and it's kinda like jeez. not trying to point fingers at anyone or anything, its just following this stuff seemed really tiring, much less actively being involved in it.
Kunzait_83 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:17 am
*snip*
it's such a lazy word, it's kinda the same with Hipster or contrarian when people don't like popular media or whatever. are their people who are assholes about preferring something or only like and dislike something to seem cool ? for sure, but 9 times outta 10, it's just used as a dismissive way to not argue that persons actually point.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:00 am

Planetnamek wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:10 pm
Xanatos-Not being "defensive" here just because I think you're dead wrong in this instance :roll: , i'm just growing tired of these debates that i've seen play out time and time again amongst the DB fandom. Seems like you're the defensive one here that needs to "Calm the fuck down"(Especially given how perpetually angry you still seem to be at the dub and its fans despite the fact that it ended well over a decade ago, methinks you need some anger management :lol: )

People disliked the Orange Bricks for a variety of reasons and no it's not true that it was the first time the original score got criticized, that's revisionist history right there as this was happening well before the bricks came out(it was frequently brought up on fansites like DBZU2)

I don't think changing the music was stupid personally, but I get why others didn't like it.

Newsflash, not every single person that does not blindly agree with you on DB has "their feelings hurt" :lol:

My feelings ain't "hurt" bro :lolno: , i'm just getting sick and tired of these pointless debates and the rampant elitism that always seems to come with them. :yawn:

If you think that kind of disrespect towards the original is only unique to DB then you haven't been hanging around other anime fandoms enough, I myself have seen this all the time with Yu-Gi-Oh and Sailor Moon.

I will cop to preferring Vollmer and Young(and preferring Goku to sound like a dude), but i'm not going to be begging Funi to bring them back because I know how pointless that is.

Never once claimed anything you said was "Directed towards me", that's just you projecting.
LMAO, you “see this all the time”? I won’t speak for Yugioh, but as far as Sailor Moon is concerned, when was the last time you saw a post in the Sailor Moon fandom wishing for the death of Kotono Mitsuishi? Debates get heated in that fandom too, don’t get me wrong, but they tend to be more about which dub is best or 90’s vs Crystal. That kind of thing. The only hostility the Japanese version ever got in the fandom was from a specific group that had an agenda that I’d rather not get into right now, but I imagine posters here can guess. Even then, it’s not much of a thing anymore as it was in the late 90’s-00’s. So yeah. Not even close. Sorry, kiddo.

So, go on and write a long winded post in response about how SO not bothered you are when my initial comments were obviously not directed at this community. I’m sure you don’t feel “attacked” at all. :lol:

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Valerius Dover » Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:18 am

^I don't think I've heard of people hating on Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh. If anything, it's actually kind of hard to find other fans who don't hate the dub outside of the first series. Regarding Sailor Moon, that TheOtherName group actually did make a brief comeback in 2014 when the redub was announced, but I haven't heard much from them since then. I think women are also less likely to get aggressive and immature enough to send death threats to people like that.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:22 am

Not familiar with Sailor Moon or its fandom, but even as someone who grew up with Yu-Gi-Oh I've never heard much hatred for it's dub other than the censorship. Most fans I've talked to seem fine with the voice acting and forgive it's other common early 2000s dub issues like the replacement score, name changes, etc. Although I know a lot of Yu-Gi-Oh fans whose primary interest is the card game, and less so the anime/manga. With Dragon Ball the reverse is true and fans take the story more seriously.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:12 am

Valerius Dover wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:18 am
^I don't think I've heard of people hating on Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh. If anything, it's actually kind of hard to find other fans who don't hate the dub outside of the first series. Regarding Sailor Moon, that TheOtherName group actually did make a brief comeback in 2014 when the redub was announced, but I haven't heard much from them since then. I think women are also less likely to get aggressive and immature enough to send death threats to people like that.
I somewhat remember them. They were a fan dub team right? I think I watched the first episode of their Stars dub years ago. I did look them up and stumbled on a site called WeWantSerena, made by someone who indeed prefers the DiC version and wants to see it preserved. Even then, they don’t shit on the Japanese version in such a toxic manner and at LEAST tries to explain their perspective in a respectful manner with no overly nasty remarks about the original cast and talents.

They even make some interesting points even if I ultimately disagree with their premise in the end.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:17 am
Planetnamek wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:10 pm
i'm just getting sick and tired of these pointless debates and the rampant elitism that always seems to come with them.
Serious, genuine question: can we like nail down a concrete, definitive answer on what exactly we all mean here when we use the word "elitism" in these kinds of conversations?

Because the word actually DOES have a real, solidly specific dictionary definition, and I've long (and I mean LONG) gotten the impression that in most all DB/anime dub vs sub discussions, people just throw it around simply as a shorthand for "you said something I disagree with and its making me feel massively insecure and hyper-defensively self-conscious to the point where I'm going to just blanket assume that you're looking down your nose at me and being condescending, regardless of whether or not you've actually said anything to indicate that even remotely".

Its the rhetorical equivalent of someone responding to an otherwise benign, inconsequential statement with "WHAT, YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME?! IS THAT WHAT YOU THINK?! CAUSE YOU'RE NOT BETTER THAN ME!!" Kind of like how people assume, no matter *what* the circumstances or context, than anyone who is vegan or a teetotaler is always universally judging and looking down on everyone else purely by nature of their simply being a vegan or teetotaler.

Basically, the word elitist/elitism within these sub/dub discussions has come to lose any and all meaning apart from "you said a thing I didn't like and its making me feel judged and attacked!"
Well I can't personally speak for everyone else on here, but when I say it that term, i'm referring to this notion that a loud vocal minority of sub fans have where they think simply being a sub fan automatically makes them a superior fan to those who unironically enjoy the dub(i'm not accusing you of this personally, but i've seen more then a few users on here and on other sites engage in this practice) and they try and make things personal by somehow implying that liking the dub makes one an idiot or something along those lines.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and others on DB, but i've noticed from some interactions here amongst other users in the past that just disagreeing and hating Funi isn't enough for some people, they have to take it one step further and directly go after fans that like Funi's products(again I stress i'm not talking about you specifically) and blame them for all the bad things that happened with the franchise as if it's somehow their fault. Frankly a lot of that comes off as incredibly immature and childish, I just fail to see the point in holding a grudge against fans over something that happened decades ago. I see the bitterness and anger from some sub fans and I just think "man you could be doing something WAY more productive then complaining about fans of a dub that ended almost 2 decades ago"

Most vegans i've come across have been real dicks like that where they think they are better then other people simply because they don't eat meat and they try and shame others as being "evil" just for liking meat. Not saying they are all like that, but unfortunately many of the ones i've encountered were genuine arrogant assholes. PETA is I think the main reason this stereotype of vegans persists so much as they are frankly a terrible organization that hurts more animals then they help.

Valerius Dover wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:18 am
^I don't think I've heard of people hating on Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh. If anything, it's actually kind of hard to find other fans who don't hate the dub outside of the first series. Regarding Sailor Moon, that TheOtherName group actually did make a brief comeback in 2014 when the redub was announced, but I haven't heard much from them since then. I think women are also less likely to get aggressive and immature enough to send death threats to people like that.
Oh how I wish that was true, but women are just as prone to doing that sort of thing. I saw that firsthand when a female Steven Universe fan drew some fan-art and some other female fans attacked her with all kinds of death threats over her art being "inaccurate" and the artist ended up attempting suicide as a result, that definitely played a part in me wanting to stay the hell away from SU(that and the art-style never quite did it for me).

There were people hating on the original version of YGO too, Kevin T Rod of YGO uncensored complained about them all the time.

Same with Sailor Moon, it's not so much the case nowadays, but back when the dub was airing there absolutely were fans like that hating on the original, the site owners for SM Uncensored frequently complained about that.

Xanatos-you seem to have a very overinflated opinion about yourself, not every person disagreeing with you automatically means they are feeling "personally attacked", you ain't that special, get over yourself LOL :lol: You're the one writing "long-winded" posts here boi.
Last edited by Planetnamek on Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:54 am

Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am


Well I can't personally speak for everyone else on here, but when I say it that term, i'm referring to this notion that a loud vocal minority of sub fans have where they think simply being a sub fan automatically makes them a superior fan to those who unironically enjoy the dub(i'm not accusing you of this personally, but i've seen more then a few users on here and on other sites engage in this practice) and they try and make things personal by somehow implying that liking the dub makes one an idiot or something along those lines.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and others on DB, but i've noticed from some interactions here amongst other users in the past that just disagreeing and hating Funi isn't enough for some people, they have to take it one step further and directly go after fans that like Funi's products(again I stress i'm not talking about you specifically) and blame them for all the bad things that happened with the franchise as if it's somehow their fault. Frankly a lot of that comes off as incredibly immature and childish, I just fail to see the point in holding a grudge against fans over something that happened decades ago. I see the bitterness and anger from some sub fans and I just think "man you could be doing something WAY more productive then complaining about fans of a dub that ended almost 2 decades ago"
Is it really surprising though? I mean look at how unhealthily obsessive a *lot* of weebs get both in general about anime and their preferred way to watch it, but especially when it comes to their favorite. Extra especially if they find people that vehemently conform to their echo chamber and let them feel like they are punching down. Even when theres not much below to punch. And yes this applies to both dub and sub fans.
Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am
Valerius Dover wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:18 am
^I don't think I've heard of people hating on Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh. If anything, it's actually kind of hard to find other fans who don't hate the dub outside of the first series. Regarding Sailor Moon, that TheOtherName group actually did make a brief comeback in 2014 when the redub was announced, but I haven't heard much from them since then. I think women are also less likely to get aggressive and immature enough to send death threats to people like that.
Oh how I wish that was true, but women are just as prone to doing that sort of thing. I saw that firsthand when a female Steven Universe fan drew some fan-art and some other female fans attacked her with all kinds of death threats over her art being "inaccurate" and the artist ended up attempting suicide as a result, that definitely played a part in me wanting to stay the hell away from SU(that and the art-style never quite did it for me).

There were people hating on the original version of YGO too, Kevin T Rod of YGO uncensored complained about them all the time.
I handt heard of this before, but i guess what else can you expect from the fanbase of a show that teaches you to hug and makeup with space nazi, and let them go on their genocidal way.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:08 pm

10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:54 am
Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am


Well I can't personally speak for everyone else on here, but when I say it that term, i'm referring to this notion that a loud vocal minority of sub fans have where they think simply being a sub fan automatically makes them a superior fan to those who unironically enjoy the dub(i'm not accusing you of this personally, but i've seen more then a few users on here and on other sites engage in this practice) and they try and make things personal by somehow implying that liking the dub makes one an idiot or something along those lines.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and others on DB, but i've noticed from some interactions here amongst other users in the past that just disagreeing and hating Funi isn't enough for some people, they have to take it one step further and directly go after fans that like Funi's products(again I stress i'm not talking about you specifically) and blame them for all the bad things that happened with the franchise as if it's somehow their fault. Frankly a lot of that comes off as incredibly immature and childish, I just fail to see the point in holding a grudge against fans over something that happened decades ago. I see the bitterness and anger from some sub fans and I just think "man you could be doing something WAY more productive then complaining about fans of a dub that ended almost 2 decades ago"
Is it really surprising though? I mean look at how unhealthily obsessive a *lot* of weebs get both in general about anime and their preferred way to watch it, but especially when it comes to their favorite. Extra especially if they find people that vehemently conform to their echo chamber and let them feel like they are punching down. Even when theres not much below to punch. And yes this applies to both dub and sub fans.
Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am
Valerius Dover wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:18 am
^I don't think I've heard of people hating on Japanese Yu-Gi-Oh. If anything, it's actually kind of hard to find other fans who don't hate the dub outside of the first series. Regarding Sailor Moon, that TheOtherName group actually did make a brief comeback in 2014 when the redub was announced, but I haven't heard much from them since then. I think women are also less likely to get aggressive and immature enough to send death threats to people like that.
Oh how I wish that was true, but women are just as prone to doing that sort of thing. I saw that firsthand when a female Steven Universe fan drew some fan-art and some other female fans attacked her with all kinds of death threats over her art being "inaccurate" and the artist ended up attempting suicide as a result, that definitely played a part in me wanting to stay the hell away from SU(that and the art-style never quite did it for me).

There were people hating on the original version of YGO too, Kevin T Rod of YGO uncensored complained about them all the time.
I handt heard of this before, but i guess what else can you expect from the fanbase of a show that teaches you to hug and makeup with space nazi, and let them go on their genocidal way.
Well i'm not surprised there was a lot of anger back when the dub was airing, but I would've thought that almost 2 decades after it ended and with Funi giving the sub fans what they wanted in the form of the Dragon Boxes that a lot of these attacks on dub fans would've ended. But no I still see some people holding grudges and frankly creepy obsessions over blaming dub fans for everything that happened to the franchise that they don't like.

Reminds me of how angry some Star Wars fans still are over the prequels(though ironically the polarizing new trilogy is making some fans come around to them) and how they still hold a grudge against Lucas for them(and for the special editions of the OT). Personally i'll defend the prequels on my deathbed and that's not just nostalgia talking either(saw them a couple years ago and still liked em) Moviebob did a great video when the Phantom Menace got it's 3-D re-release on how even though he's personally not that big on TPM that Star Wars fans need to stop holding a grudge against Lucas and stop constantly being angry all the time over the prequels as it's incredibly unhealthy and does not actually accomplish anything, and much of what he says can easily apply to sub fans of DB as well in that they seem to be incredibly focused on still being angry at Funi like it's still 1999:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0KI-jyJlj8

Back then the anger at least had a purpose as it no doubt led to things like Funi releasing the Dragon Boxes and with making scripts more faithful to the original. But now i'm not really sure what still holding onto that level of anger actually accomplishes, it just seems like a huge waste of time and energy to me. So if you still feel the need to hold a grudge against Funi and it's fans for something that ended over 20 years ago, fine whatever, personally i'd prefer to spend my time actually enjoying myself and doing something productive rather then attacking others(especially after what happened on film twitter last week, won't go into detail here, but the whole thing was an ugly mess where a bunch of people got hurt and nobody came out of the other side looking good).
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:21 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:08 pm
10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:54 am
Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am


Well I can't personally speak for everyone else on here, but when I say it that term, i'm referring to this notion that a loud vocal minority of sub fans have where they think simply being a sub fan automatically makes them a superior fan to those who unironically enjoy the dub(i'm not accusing you of this personally, but i've seen more then a few users on here and on other sites engage in this practice) and they try and make things personal by somehow implying that liking the dub makes one an idiot or something along those lines.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and others on DB, but i've noticed from some interactions here amongst other users in the past that just disagreeing and hating Funi isn't enough for some people, they have to take it one step further and directly go after fans that like Funi's products(again I stress i'm not talking about you specifically) and blame them for all the bad things that happened with the franchise as if it's somehow their fault. Frankly a lot of that comes off as incredibly immature and childish, I just fail to see the point in holding a grudge against fans over something that happened decades ago. I see the bitterness and anger from some sub fans and I just think "man you could be doing something WAY more productive then complaining about fans of a dub that ended almost 2 decades ago"
Is it really surprising though? I mean look at how unhealthily obsessive a *lot* of weebs get both in general about anime and their preferred way to watch it, but especially when it comes to their favorite. Extra especially if they find people that vehemently conform to their echo chamber and let them feel like they are punching down. Even when theres not much below to punch. And yes this applies to both dub and sub fans.
Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am


Oh how I wish that was true, but women are just as prone to doing that sort of thing. I saw that firsthand when a female Steven Universe fan drew some fan-art and some other female fans attacked her with all kinds of death threats over her art being "inaccurate" and the artist ended up attempting suicide as a result, that definitely played a part in me wanting to stay the hell away from SU(that and the art-style never quite did it for me).

There were people hating on the original version of YGO too, Kevin T Rod of YGO uncensored complained about them all the time.
I handt heard of this before, but i guess what else can you expect from the fanbase of a show that teaches you to hug and makeup with space nazi, and let them go on their genocidal way.
Well i'm not surprised there was a lot of anger back when the dub was airing, but I would've thought that almost 2 decades after it ended and with Funi giving the sub fans what they wanted in the form of the Dragon Boxes that a lot of these attacks on dub fans would've ended. But no I still see some people holding grudges and frankly creepy obsessions over blaming dub fans for everything that happened to the franchise that they don't like.

Reminds me of how angry some Star Wars fans still are over the prequels(though ironically the polarizing new trilogy is making some fans come around to them) and how they still hold a grudge against Lucas for them(and for the special editions of the OT). Personally i'll defend the prequels on my deathbed and that's not just nostalgia talking either(saw them a couple years ago and still liked em) Moviebob did a great video when the Phantom Menace got it's 3-D re-release on how even though he's personally not that big on TPM that Star Wars fans need to stop holding a grudge against Lucas and stop constantly being angry all the time over the prequels as it's incredibly unhealthy and does not actually accomplish anything, and much of what he says can easily apply to sub fans of DB as well in that they seem to be incredibly focused on still being angry at Funi like it's still 1999:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0KI-jyJlj8

Back then the anger at least had a purpose as it no doubt led to things like Funi releasing the Dragon Boxes and with making scripts more faithful to the original. But now i'm not really sure what still holding onto that level of anger actually accomplishes, it just seems like a huge waste of time and energy to me. So if you still feel the need to hold a grudge against Funi and it's fans for something that ended over 20 years ago, fine whatever, personally i'd prefer to spend my time actually enjoying myself and doing something productive rather then attacking others(especially after what happened on film twitter last week, won't go into detail here, but the whole thing was an ugly mess where a bunch of people got hurt and nobody came out of the other side looking good).
Thats a fair point id say. Even most on the spectrum weeb's obsessions dont last heck over 20 years at this point. Especially when they have access to untouched footage and the original japanese vocals. The more you look the more jacked up it gets :sick:

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:44 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am
Well I can't personally speak for everyone else on here, but when I say it that term, i'm referring to this notion that a loud vocal minority of sub fans have where they think simply being a sub fan automatically makes them a superior fan to those who unironically enjoy the dub(i'm not accusing you of this personally, but i've seen more then a few users on here and on other sites engage in this practice) and they try and make things personal by somehow implying that liking the dub makes one an idiot or something along those lines.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and others on DB, but i've noticed from some interactions here amongst other users in the past that just disagreeing and hating Funi isn't enough for some people, they have to take it one step further and directly go after fans that like Funi's products(again I stress i'm not talking about you specifically) and blame them for all the bad things that happened with the franchise as if it's somehow their fault. Frankly a lot of that comes off as incredibly immature and childish, I just fail to see the point in holding a grudge against fans over something that happened decades ago. I see the bitterness and anger from some sub fans and I just think "man you could be doing something WAY more productive then complaining about fans of a dub that ended almost 2 decades ago"

Most vegans i've come across have been real dicks like that where they think they are better then other people simply because they don't eat meat and they try and shame others as being "evil" just for liking meat. Not saying they are all like that, but unfortunately many of the ones i've encountered were genuine arrogant assholes. PETA is I think the main reason this stereotype of vegans persists so much as they are frankly a terrible organization that hurts more animals then they help.
We're all speaking anecdotally here, but in the 20+ years I've been in the fandom, while I've seen dub and sub fans go at it, I'm hard pressed to think of any founding of the accusation of sub fans blaming dub fans for every bad thing that's happened with the franchise. Even stripping away the hyperbole, I can't place where such an idea would come from. And I've certainly never seen it on these boards. The closest I can think of is the debate over products, such as the 30th anniversary box set, where people say if you support this financially, you are encouraging more bad products. And while that has led to a few arguments, it's hard to see that as childish/elitist/holding a grudge. It's a legitimate viewpoint to hold, and even then, while the debates have been impassioned, they're largely civil.

I'm a vegetarian, and quite frankly, I see a lot more of the opposite: assholes metaphorically waving the bacon flag in my face when I'm just minding my own business. In other words, as Kunzait said, my mere existence causes some people to get defensive.

It's the exact same way on my YouTube channel. I review Japanese Dragon Ball. In order to avoid conflict, I rarely bring up the dub at all, even to correct its endless multitude of mistakes that have caused disinformation and infighting in the fandom for decades. I just want to share the Dragon Ball that I know, and making frequent comparisons to the dub I feel would undermine that purpose, as tempting as it sometimes is. But, no. Simply minding my own business is not enough for large swaths of people. And, sure, there are plenty who simply don't know the differences and legitimately think I'm don't know enough to say the characters' names "correctly." But there are just as many who act legitimately offended that I don't talk about the dub. Even though I'd have nothing good to say about it, even though I focus primarily on the manga that has no connection to FUNimation or their dubbing practices, they still get angry that I'm not catering my content specifically to them.

So please don't talk to me about so-called "elitism" on the part of sub fans. FUNimation's reversioning has long since held the majority of fans in the English-speaking world. Hell, Toei is now using FUNimation's names on their own products and insisting those dub names are included in the subtitles, something FUNimation themselves moved away from after their first two bilingual DVDs came out in 2000! I find it very rich to presuppose we're somehow the bullies when the few remaining spaces we have dedicated to our Dragon Ball are being slowly eroded.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:58 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:44 pm
Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:39 am
Well I can't personally speak for everyone else on here, but when I say it that term, i'm referring to this notion that a loud vocal minority of sub fans have where they think simply being a sub fan automatically makes them a superior fan to those who unironically enjoy the dub(i'm not accusing you of this personally, but i've seen more then a few users on here and on other sites engage in this practice) and they try and make things personal by somehow implying that liking the dub makes one an idiot or something along those lines.

I'm fine with people disagreeing with me and others on DB, but i've noticed from some interactions here amongst other users in the past that just disagreeing and hating Funi isn't enough for some people, they have to take it one step further and directly go after fans that like Funi's products(again I stress i'm not talking about you specifically) and blame them for all the bad things that happened with the franchise as if it's somehow their fault. Frankly a lot of that comes off as incredibly immature and childish, I just fail to see the point in holding a grudge against fans over something that happened decades ago. I see the bitterness and anger from some sub fans and I just think "man you could be doing something WAY more productive then complaining about fans of a dub that ended almost 2 decades ago"

Most vegans i've come across have been real dicks like that where they think they are better then other people simply because they don't eat meat and they try and shame others as being "evil" just for liking meat. Not saying they are all like that, but unfortunately many of the ones i've encountered were genuine arrogant assholes. PETA is I think the main reason this stereotype of vegans persists so much as they are frankly a terrible organization that hurts more animals then they help.
We're all speaking anecdotally here, but in the 20+ years I've been in the fandom, while I've seen dub and sub fans go at it, I'm hard pressed to think of any founding of the accusation of sub fans blaming dub fans for every bad thing that's happened with the franchise. Even stripping away the hyperbole, I can't place where such an idea would come from. And I've certainly never seen it on these boards. The closest I can think of is the debate over products, such as the 30th anniversary box set, where people say if you support this financially, you are encouraging more bad products. And while that has led to a few arguments, it's hard to see that as childish/elitist/holding a grudge. It's a legitimate viewpoint to hold, and even then, while the debates have been impassioned, they're largely civil.

I'm a vegetarian, and quite frankly, I see a lot more of the opposite: assholes metaphorically waving the bacon flag in my face when I'm just minding my own business. In other words, as Kunzait said, my mere existence causes some people to get defensive.

It's the exact same way on my YouTube channel. I review Japanese Dragon Ball. In order to avoid conflict, I rarely bring up the dub at all, even to correct its endless multitude of mistakes that have caused disinformation and infighting in the fandom for decades. I just want to share the Dragon Ball that I know, and making frequent comparisons to the dub I feel would undermine that purpose, as tempting as it sometimes is. But, no. Simply minding my own business is not enough for large swaths of people. And, sure, there are plenty who simply don't know the differences and legitimately think I'm don't know enough to say the characters' names "correctly." But there are just as many who act legitimately offended that I don't talk about the dub. Even though I'd have nothing good to say about it, even though I focus primarily on the manga that has no connection to FUNimation or their dubbing practices, they still get angry that I'm not catering my content specifically to them.

So please don't talk to me about so-called "elitism" on the part of sub fans. FUNimation's reversioning has long since held the majority of fans in the English-speaking world. Hell, Toei is now using FUNimation's names on their own products and insisting those dub names are included in the subtitles, something FUNimation themselves moved away from after their first two bilingual DVDs came out in 2000! I find it very rich to presuppose we're somehow the bullies when the few remaining spaces we have dedicated to our Dragon Ball are being slowly eroded.
I wasn't talking to you specifically, i'm just saying what I've personally witnessed. Just because it didn't happen to you personally does not mean it didn't happen to anyone at all. Elitism is real and not some crazy made up myth whether you like it or not.

Sorry if you took my posts as a personal attack on you, that's definitely not the case, you're one of my favorite youtubers. I specifically mentioned that it was a loud vocal MINORITY of sub fans, not a MAJORITY of them. So please do calm down and try not to take what I said so personally. I do think you are being a wee-bit overdramatic about your spaces being "eroded" though, there's no organized gathering of dub fans to try and shut you out or anything like that. The continued existence of this site is evidence enough of that.

The few bad actors commenting on your videos do not represent most of the dub fans at all, that's ludicrous.

With vegans there's also very much an aspect of racism as well, as they tend to be overwhelmingly white and ignorant of how other cultures(especially those which value meat) besides their own work:https://medium.com/@julianayaz/the-prob ... 6c0341e2a2

https://afropunk.com/2017/11/decolonizi ... ss-racist/

As for the 30th Anniversary, that was one thing where both sub and dub fans seemed to be mostly united in disliking.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:04 pm

I'm asking purely to learn not to attack, but how is toei using the names that they'd oked for their licensed dub eroding anything when they're trying to market internationally? It doesnt go back and change the audio i usually listen to when watching dragon ball.


Granted I'm just happy they didnt do half pass translations like clearin or bloomah.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:07 pm

10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:04 pm
I'm asking purely to learn not to attack, but how is toei using the names that they'd oked for their licensed dub eroding anything when they're trying to market internationally? It doesnt go back and change the audio i usually listen to when watching dragon ball.


Granted I'm just happy they didnt do half pass translations like clearin or bloomah.
Agreed, I definitely don't get what the big deal about that is, it's not "eroding" anything to use names people are more familiar with(sorry but I just cannot say Kuirin over Krillin).
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:15 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:58 pm
I wasn't talking to you specifically, i'm just saying what I've personally witnessed. Just because it didn't happen to you personally does not mean it didn't happen to anyone at all. Elitism is real and not some crazy made up myth whether you like it or not.

Sorry if you took my posts as a personal attack on you, that's definitely not the case, you're one of my favorite youtubers. I specifically mentioned that it was a loud vocal MINORITY of sub fans, not a MAJORITY of them. So please do calm down and try not to take what I said so personally. I do think you are being a wee-bit overdramatic about your spaces being "eroded" though, there's no organized gathering of dub fans to try and shut you out or anything like that. The continued existence of this site is evidence enough of that.
I didn't assume you were talking about me specifically, especially given this is my first response to this topic. But your assumptions that I am not currently calm, am taking things you said personally, and am being overdramatic seem to me to tie back into what Kunzait said earlier. As far as I can see, this is a discussion. No one's throwing their toys. No one's having a tantrum. We're simply debating points of view. Obviously it can be difficult to read tone through text, and as such it's quite easy to mistake passion for anger. If I didn't make that clear enough, then I apologize. But it does force me to wonder how much you're reading into other posts the same things you seem to have read into mine, and if a lot of your presumptions of the elitism of sub fans is based on that, especially given that...
The few bad actors commenting on your videos do not represent most of the dub fans at all, that's ludicrous.
...I could just as easily turn this statement around to your argument about sub fans. And, yes, you are quite clear in this post that you are not referring to the majority of sub fans. But neither did I make any claim that I was referring to the majority of dub fans. I even opened my post by saying that, like you, I was speaking anecdotally.

Glad you like my videos! I hope I can keep up the good work.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:28 pm

10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:04 pm
I'm asking purely to learn not to attack, but how is toei using the names that they'd oked for their licensed dub eroding anything when they're trying to market internationally? It doesnt go back and change the audio i usually listen to when watching dragon ball.
I don't see how it could be seen as anything else when you can't even watch the subtitled version without it being full of inaccurate dub names that in many cases don't remotely match what your ear is hearing when you're listening to the audio. That's very jarring. Going forward, it looks less and less likely that you can be a fan of the original version without having to accept more and more of FUNimation's "reversioning" encroaching into the product you're trying to enjoy.

I mentioned the first two DVDs FUNimation put out using dub names, actively taking the scripts Steve Simmons was writing and inserting their own names into them. The reason they corrected that in the future is because fans were rightly pissed off at that and complained until they changed their minds. The whole supposed justification of putting out bilingual DVDs was to placate this section of the fandom that had been ignored by releasing the original version with accurate subtitles. Forcing in dub names was a slap in the face to those of us who just wanted to watch the show without FUNimation's alterations in them. And now, 20 years later, we're back to that.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:31 pm

Speaking as somebody who's definitely soured a bit on the dub score...there HAS always been a prevailing dismissiveness of its fanbase on here - the belief that they're mostly speaking from nostalgia and their arguments don't have much merit.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:32 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:15 pm
Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:58 pm
I wasn't talking to you specifically, i'm just saying what I've personally witnessed. Just because it didn't happen to you personally does not mean it didn't happen to anyone at all. Elitism is real and not some crazy made up myth whether you like it or not.

Sorry if you took my posts as a personal attack on you, that's definitely not the case, you're one of my favorite youtubers. I specifically mentioned that it was a loud vocal MINORITY of sub fans, not a MAJORITY of them. So please do calm down and try not to take what I said so personally. I do think you are being a wee-bit overdramatic about your spaces being "eroded" though, there's no organized gathering of dub fans to try and shut you out or anything like that. The continued existence of this site is evidence enough of that.
I didn't assume you were talking about me specifically, especially given this is my first response to this topic. But your assumptions that I am not currently calm, am taking things you said personally, and am being overdramatic seem to me to tie back into what Kunzait said earlier. As far as I can see, this is a discussion. No one's throwing their toys. No one's having a tantrum. We're simply debating points of view. Obviously it can be difficult to read tone through text, and as such it's quite easy to mistake passion for anger. But it does force me to wonder how much you're reading into other posts the same things you seem to have read into mine, and if a lot of your presumptions of the elitism of sub fans is based on that, especially given that...
The few bad actors commenting on your videos do not represent most of the dub fans at all, that's ludicrous.
...I could just as easily turn this statement around to your argument about sub fans. And, yes, you are quite clear in this post that you are not referring to the majority of sub fans. But neither did I make any claim that I was referring to the majority of dub fans. I even opened my post by saying that, like you, I was speaking anecdotally.

Glad you like my videos! I hope I can keep up the good work.
I don't think it's ALL sub fans doing this, just a vocal minority, I think most of them are decent people and I wish more were like you and Vegetto EX.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:31 pm
Speaking as somebody who's definitely soured a bit on the dub score...there HAS always been a prevailing dismissiveness of its fanbase on here - the belief that they're mostly speaking from nostalgia and their arguments don't have much merit.
That's largely what i've been referring to, i've gone back through many older conversations on this forum and that is definitely a recurring them here(but certainly not exclusive to here, i've seen this also done in the Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, and Sailor Moon fandoms as well)this notion that nostalgia is the only possible explanation for why we like the dub and therefore our opinions are irrelevant. Again not saying all sub fans do this, but i've seen more then a few do it.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:43 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:31 pm
Speaking as somebody who's definitely soured a bit on the dub score...there HAS always been a prevailing dismissiveness of its fanbase on here - the belief that they're mostly speaking from nostalgia and their arguments don't have much merit.
I do think it can be a difficult line to walk sometimes. For as easy as it is to trot out the line, "I'm attacking the product, not you," sometimes the intent can easily be misinterpreted, and sometimes the best-intended post can fall into ad-hominem rhetoric when it very much shouldn't. After all, if someone says the Faulconer score is garbage written to the lowest-common denominator of ADHD-rattled audience, while not specifically talking about fans, how is a fan of that music NOT supposed to take it as a criticism of him/her? It's indirect, but it's very clearly lumping any fans of that music into such a category. So to an extent, I get it. And I appreciate the example because I can't deny that I have seen some of what you describe on occasion.

On the other hand, I have seen such reactions to the use of "nostalgia" serve as an immediate springboard to accusations that weren't actually being made. For example, I recall seeing in this thread someone having to clarify that the use of the term "nostalgia" was not intended to dismiss their opinion on the music they like. Instead, it was intended to point out why such fans tend to be so hostile towards the original score. That's not dismissing the score they like but combatting the reactionary arguments we're often faced with. And I do think there's a distinct difference.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:47 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:28 pm
10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:04 pm
I'm asking purely to learn not to attack, but how is toei using the names that they'd oked for their licensed dub eroding anything when they're trying to market internationally? It doesnt go back and change the audio i usually listen to when watching dragon ball.
I don't see how it could be seen as anything else when you can't even watch the subtitled version without it being full of inaccurate dub names that in many cases don't remotely match what your ear is hearing when you're listening to the audio. That's very jarring. Going forward, it looks less and less likely that you can be a fan of the original version without having to accept more and more of FUNimation's "reversioning" encroaching into the product you're trying to enjoy.

I mentioned the first two DVDs FUNimation put out using dub names, actively taking the scripts Steve Simmons was writing and inserting their own names into them. The reason they corrected that in the future is because fans were rightly pissed off at that and complained until they changed their minds. The whole supposed justification of putting out bilingual DVDs was to placate this section of the fandom that had been ignored by releasing the original version with accurate subtitles. Forcing in dub names was a slap in the face to those of us who just wanted to watch the show without FUNimation's alterations in them. And now, 20 years later, we're back to that.
Yeah I can see how that would be annoying then, and learning about it even affecting new subs does upset me too. But given that its toei, and they oked those names in the first place, I shuoldnt be surprised. toei doesnt care they just want more green.

Though i cant lie it does make me at least a bit relieved they didnt use even worse dub translated names like blooma and likum like some of the other dubs supposedly did.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:57 pm

10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:47 pm
Though i cant lie it does make me at least a bit relieved they didnt use even worse dub translated names like blooma and likum like some of the other dubs supposedly did.
Now you're hitting me where I live. "Blooma" is a much more accurate and complete translation than "Bulma."
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