Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:58 pm

Blooma for all intents and purposes IS the correct translation though. But seeing as how her name is written incorrectly in huge letters on her clothes for her VERY first appearance.. it's a bit of a compromise for Western audiences.

if I were doing a movie franchise I would make it so that Bulma is the name she goes by while Bluma is her embarrassing real name that only her parents call her
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Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:02 pm

Made-up names in JP are usually a problem point unless the people making up said names romanize it to English beforehand.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:11 pm

I can guess why they changed it from Blooma-you know schoolkids would be snickering and calling her "bloomer" given how similar the name sounds to it if they'd kept it, and given that that there's more then a few jokes revolving around her underwear in the original version, perhaps Funimation changed her name to side-step that whole thing :lol:

Bulma seems like a good compromise, better then Leena like the HG dub calls her anyway(even though her shirt blatantly says Bulma).
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:14 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:57 pm
10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:47 pm
Though i cant lie it does make me at least a bit relieved they didnt use even worse dub translated names like blooma and likum like some of the other dubs supposedly did.
Now you're hitting me where I live. "Blooma" is a much more accurate and complete translation than "Bulma."
Is it? Her shirt litterally says bulma on it, and its how the main man himself canonized the non kanji spelling of it. To me blooma is a half done translation of what should be bloomer as thats the english name for the type of underwear her name is supposed to be. So bulma isnt as bad to me because at least thats how Toriyama said to spell it, without having "l" as the second letter of her name.

Now if anyone wants to say her name should have been bloomer I'll agree 100%

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:21 pm

Ehh....by that same logic Kuririn should be Kulilin. And Goku's had his name rendered in all sorts of different romaji spellings throughout the series. Is he Goku, Gokou or Gokuh?

Point being, there's a lot of sloppy romanizations in the series. Hell, the entire God/Angel naming convention was the result of Toriyama misinterpreting Virus/Birusu as Beers. I think translations should go by intent rather than error.
Last edited by jjgp1112 on Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:21 pm

10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:14 pm
Is it? Her shirt litterally says bulma on it, and its how the main man himself canonized the non kanji spelling of it. To me blooma is a half done translation of what should be bloomer as thats the english name for the type of underwear her name is supposed to be. So bulma isnt as bad to me because at least thats how Toriyama said to spell it, without having "l" as the second letter of her name.

Now if anyone wants to say her name should have been bloomer I'll agree 100%
I'm not against Bloomer. To me, though, Blooma follows the same scheme as Freezer to Freeza, so unless you're advocating for "Freezer" as the name of the villain, I'm not sure why you'd be against "Blooma" on principle. However, I've seen many accepted renderings in Japanese of what translates to bloomers, so there is room for debate as to whether it is the exact word or a play on the word. That's why translating is fun. There can be many right answers. Also, Toriyama seems to have realized his mistake in recent years.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:30 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:21 pm
10gigtriforce wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:14 pm
Is it? Her shirt litterally says bulma on it, and its how the main man himself canonized the non kanji spelling of it. To me blooma is a half done translation of what should be bloomer as thats the english name for the type of underwear her name is supposed to be. So bulma isnt as bad to me because at least thats how Toriyama said to spell it, without having "l" as the second letter of her name.

Now if anyone wants to say her name should have been bloomer I'll agree 100%
I'm not against Bloomer. To me, though, Blooma follows the same scheme as Freezer to Freeza, so unless you're advocating for "Freezer" as the name of the villain, I'm not sure why you'd be against "Blooma" on principle. However, I've seen many accepted renderings in Japanese of what translates to bloomers, so there is room for debate as to whether it is the exact word or a play on the word. That's why translating is fun. There can be many right answers. Also, Toriyama seems to have realized his mistake in recent years.

Image
Id be fine with freezer, he was the antagonist to a planet named after vegetables so theres a fun pun there and his brothers name was translated to cooler. Really neat to see toryama redraw that with a translated name though, didnt know that pic exsited :o

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Kunzait_83 » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:23 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:08 pm
Well I can't personally speak for everyone else on here, but when I say it that term, i'm referring to this notion that a loud vocal minority of sub fans have where they think simply being a sub fan automatically makes them a superior fan to those who unironically enjoy the dub(i'm not accusing you of this personally, but i've seen more then a few users on here and on other sites engage in this practice) and they try and make things personal by somehow implying that liking the dub makes one an idiot or something along those lines.
While I'm sure that I've seen at least a FEW sub fans jump to that extreme on certain occasions (and it always leaves a horrid taste in my mouth when I have)... I'm gonna say that in 95% of most instances, this is WHOLLY imagined in the heads of dub fans who simply cannot handle or take any remote criticism of the dub and internalize/personalize their relationship with it WAY too much more than is conceivably healthy.

I cannot count the number of instances where someone will talk about how horribly the dub was handled (be it acting, translation/writing, or music, or whatnot) and the reaction from most dub fans is to IMMEDIATELY jump to the whole "elitism" thing and turn themselves into persecuted martyrs, claiming that its personal towards them when it really isn't.

Its a common quirk of human psychology, where some people will have a go-to gut reaction towards having some new insight - be it new information, an uncommon opinion or viewpoint, or what have you - shared with them by mistakenly projecting personal judgement onto it. Often instead of "Huh, that's interesting, I never thought of it like that before" the response ends up being "Does this person think they're better than me? How DARE they judge me!" when in reality NO ONE at any point in the conversation ever said anything even APPROXIMATING that.

A lot of people are just INCREDIBLY insecure about the fact that the world is a whole lot bigger and more diverse and nuanced in thought and outlook than they realize, and thus get super defensive about hearing views that dissent too starkly with what they're most familiar with hearing, even when they don't in any way NEED to be and nobody is thinking lesser of anyone in particular.

At the end of the day, we're ultimately just expressing opinions about a work of art/media (made for children no less): not exactly a serious, high-stakes issue and ultimately trivial in the grander scheme of things. Contrary to what some people on here probably think about me, I've had PLENTY of friends IRL who are ardent DBZ dub fans over the years/decades, and I honestly couldn't care less when all is said and done: it just about never comes up as any kind of an issue.

Planetnamek wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:08 pm
Well i'm not surprised there was a lot of anger back when the dub was airing, but I would've thought that almost 2 decades after it ended and with Funi giving the sub fans what they wanted in the form of the Dragon Boxes that a lot of these attacks on dub fans would've ended. But no I still see some people holding grudges and frankly creepy obsessions over blaming dub fans for everything that happened to the franchise that they don't like.
First of all, based on posts of yours I've already read both in general as well as directed at me personally... I can already say with utmost confidence that you've tended to do an AWFUL LOT of projecting emotions onto people's text that simply isn't there. Certainly nothing I've said in any of my responses to you came from a place even vaguely resembling "anger" or "hostility", and yet that's the manner in which you seem to take any remote hint of disagreement that I've put forth with you.

I actually a few times had gotten into a pretty interesting discussion with another forum member off the site (won't say who) about this type of thing, and they'd basically come to the conclusion that for some people, ANY kind of a long, thoughtful, or nuanced response is seen as inherently hostile, threatening, or aggressive in and of itself, no matter how otherwise calmly, civilly, and respectfully put it may be, particularly when the substance of it is too contradictory against a thought or belief of theirs that they're particularly accustomed to taking as gospel truth.

I won't even pretend like I fully understand why that is or where this comes from in its entirety, but for at least some people I've no doubt that it ties into that kind of weird insecurity that comes with being exposed to thoughts or viewpoints that differ too much from what they've grown comfortable with hearing. Its just amazing - and frankly more than a little depressing - to me that this is even very much applicable and no less heated or heightened with something as otherwise small-bore and fluffy as a children's martial arts fantasy serial.

Its the kind of thing most of us are much more used to seeing crop up in debates about religion or politics, and the fact that these same or similar psychological/emotional dynamics even enter into something as silly and dumb as "Kung Fu Monkey Man Punches Space Demon: The Series"... its honestly just sad and disheartening at a certain point.

In any event, no, just from my own experience most sub fans when they criticize the dub are hardly coming from a place of anger. Frustration, sure: but frustration isn't always quite the same level of visceral vitriol as outright anger, and it certainly (usually) isn't here. And obviously almost NO ONE blames dub fans for the dub itself. That's ridiculous.

The reason why the topic is still relevant however - and sadly, it likely always WILL remain relevant - is for the simple reason that the dub is STILL the most widely absorbed, visible, and familiar incarnation of DB as a property in North American and other English speaking territories. Yes, the full subbed original is now widely available to all, and that's obviously indeed wonderful and makes all the difference in the world: but that hasn't really lessened the degree to which the dub, with all of its myriad inaccuracies, is STILL discussed and viewed as the "definitive" version of this franchise.

Because of the dub, many of us will NEVER be talking about the same series whenever we talk about Dragon Ball. There will ALWAYS be a schism there, there will always be a permanent wedge of a divide in the fanbase. And that REALLY does suck and makes discussing the series with any remote level of depth or nuance a VASTLY more frustrating and exhausting undertaking that it EVER needed to be or should be. "Kung Fu Monkey Man Punches Space Demon" should NOT by any rights be the type of thing that comes with this amount of sheer overwhelming baggage and nonsense associated with it.

Even elements from the dub itself that haven't been particularly relevant to it in MANY years - up to and including the Faulconer score itself, which hasn't been the defacto score for the series since the original DVD singles and CN airings - are still permanently hardwired into a significant chunk of the fanbase, and will seemingly NEVER go away or fade with time. And regardless of one's personal opinions as to its level of quality as music, stuff like the Faulconer score DOES almost unarguably make this into almost a whole different series and lend it a VERY different impression to viewers. Tone and presentation absolutely matters THAT much when it comes to storytelling.

If fans and the general mainstream had somehow largely abandoned the dub overall and the focus of most DB discourse were more axed on the original version... THEN the dub would truly no longer be relevant. As it stands though, no matter how much time has passed, so long as that version is seen as the definitive take/presentation of Dragon Ball, then we're ALWAYS going to have to come into these discussions with a whole laundry list of caveats and asterisks.

And while that certainly doesn't go as far as to inspire so much outright ANGER the way that yourself and others seem to always overblow these criticisms as... it IS without a doubt annoying and irritating and sours things a lot more than they ought to be. Its annoying to have to always account for this crap when at the end of the day, like anyone else, I'd simply like to just kick about and bullshit about Dragon Ball.

But again... there's always the question now of "Yeah, but WHICH Dragon Ball? The "Rrrrrr OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAND! buttrock WWE-inspired one, or the whimsically quirky kung fu fantasy romp of a throwback to classic Shaw/Harvest wuxia schlock with the heavy Dr. Slumpian bent?" We, as a broader fanbase, are literally NEVER going to be coming at this from the same page, and that whole dynamic (which again, is likely permanent at this point) was 1000% COMPLETELY avoidable and unnecessary on the part of FUNimation.

Note how I said "on the part of FUNimation": NOT the fans themselves.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:47 pm

I think you've been doing a bit of projecting on here yourself(for example assuming that most dub fans mainly consume exclusively childrens media and almost nothing else when that's very much not the case, certainly not with me at any rate, I can probably name you over 100 obscure movies you've likely never even heard of)

I was not addressing you specifically, just what i've witnessed from others in general both here and elsewhere(mainly Reddit) so I disagree about it being "in my head".

For me there's no insecurity, i'm not at all afraid to admit admit to unironically liking things that it's quite popular to hate(I.E. live-action Transformers films, DCEU, Adam Sandler movies, Dragonball Evolution etc), though on places like Reddit i've seen people get downright hostile to others for expressing those kinds of sentiments(i've seen the word "retarded" thrown around more then once towards people that liked those things, and "autistic" as well, as if having a mental illness is the only possible explanation for liking something unpopular :roll: Yes I myself may be autistic, but it's not like that's the only possible explanation for me liking something like that Hellboy remake and it's not like there aren't plenty of others out there without mental issues that also like unpopular pieces of media) and i'm fine with people disagreeing with me as long as it does not go into personal attacks(which unfortunately is a real issue on Reddit, you can get downvoted for expressing the most innocuous of opinons)

I know you'd rather be talking about the original version of the anime without the dub factoring into it, but like it or not this website probably would not have even existed without it.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by SpiritBombTriumphant » Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:59 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:29 pm
SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:15 pm
Besides, it's not like Toei gives a shit.
The C&Ds I've received in the past say otherwise.

It's real easy for all y'all to sit back and say "FUCK IT RELEASE EVERYTHING YAAAAAAAAAAY NO CONSEQUENCES FOR AAAAAANYTHIIIIIIIIING".
What the fuck did you get a C&D for?

Unrelated, but is anyone else interested in how this thread, which is specifically supposed to be about Faulconer and Kikuchi, has evolved into so many multiple topics at once?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by McDonaldsGuy » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:08 pm

Faulconer's score fits better because DBZ is more action oriented and sci-fi than Dragon Ball. DB is a pure martial arts adventure, but DBZ has very little martial arts. The fights are more energy based for example. And outside of the journey to Namek, there is very little adventuring in DBZ. There's a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z - it's so different from Dragon Ball.

But I do not think Falconer's score would have worked with the Japanese dub. It seems pure American. I think what would've worked better for the Japanese dub is more things like Solid State Scouter. That theme is awesome and fits the action tone of DBZ. The Ultimate Battle 22 Super Saiyan 3 theme is also awesome and would've fit the SSJ3 transformation a million times better than the actual Japanese theme (which had already been re-used 3953953 times by then and was never great).

Another example is Gohan vs. Cell Kamehameha. In the Japanese version, right before Vegeta strikes Cell it plays some weird dance music that doesn't fit the scene at all. In the American version, right before Vegeta strikes Cell you get the awesome piano music going straight to the Ginyu Transformation. It's epic and feels like an ending to a saga. The Japanese music didn't have that "this is the climatic ending" feel. Same with the Final Flash theme (same as the SSJ3 theme). In the Japanese dub, it doesn't fit. Faulconer gets more emotion and epicness with one piano note than an entire Japanese orchestra.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by VDenter » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:20 pm

I have to agree with Gaffer Tape.

With DB in particular fans of the original version have pretty much no good way to watch the show even in 4:3 legally without buying used limited quantity DVDs from 2003/2009, if they didn't happen to already own those, and even then you would be getting suboptimal result. Like with the OBA for instance which has yet to make its way on to a home release so fans wouldn't have to pirate it in order to experience it. So just to get DBZ to sound the way it is supposed to sound in 2020 one has to pirate the audio. I can't even begin to express how frustrating this is and what's worse Funimation had a chance to fix this massive issue with the 30th anniversary set, but i guess effort is not something that one should expect when it comes to the Funimation + DBZ equation . So i'm not even sure if i would call the original version accessible in this day and age. Sure anyone can watch it in Japanese, but not in the configuration that it aired on TV initially.

With modern DB material it is also starting to get depressing. Sub fans can't even watch it subbed without being reminded of the dub nowadays since the subtitles are inaccurate and yet, we are the elitist ones here?

All in all as far as i see it Funimation is 100% to blame for this mess so forgive me for not giving a shit about Funimation as well as their revisioned version of DBZ. And i certainly don't care how many dubbed fans might be offended at the thought that many don't give a shit about it and refuse to even acknowledge the dubbed version on the same level of importance or relevance with the original version. It is not the same show. If DBZ had a competent dub from the beginning and Funi didn't keep mismanaging the franchise for the last 20+ years it would be one thing but as it is now i don't see why anyone would have to give Funi any credit for any part of role it played in the success of DB.
Last edited by VDenter on Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by McDonaldsGuy » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:24 pm

VDenter wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:20 pm
I have to agree with Gaffer Tape.

With DB in particular fans of the original version have pretty much no good way to watch the show even in 4:3 legally without buying used limited quantity DVDs from 2003/2009 if they didn't happen to already own those, and even then you would be getting suboptimal result. Like with the OBA for instance which has yet to make its way on to a home release so fans wouldn't have to pirate it in order to experience it. So just to get DBZ to sound the way it is supposed to sound in 2020 one has to pirate the audio. I can't even begin to express how frustrating this is and what's worse Funimation had a chance to fix this massive issue with the 30th anniversary set, but i guess effort is not something that one should expect when it comes to the Funimation + DBZ equistion. So i'm not even sure if i would call the original version accessible in this day and age. Sure i can watch it in Japanese but not in the configuration that it aired on TV initially.

With modern DB material it is also starting to get depressing,sub fans can't even watch it subbed without being reminded of the dub nowadays, since the subtitles are inaccurate and yet we are the elitist ones here?

All in all as far as i see it Funimation is 100% to blame for this mess so forgive me for not giving a shit about Funimation as well as their their revisioned version of DBZ. And i certainly don't care how many dubbed fans might be offended at the thought that many don't give a shit about it and refuse to even acknowledge the dubbed version on the same level of importance or relevance with the original version. It is not the same show. If DBZ had a competent dub from the beginning and Funi didn't keep mismanaging the franchise for the last 20+ years it would be one thing but as it is now i don't see why anyone would have to give Funi any credit for any part of role it played in the success of DB.
Funimation had no part in making DBZ the phenomenon it was in the west? OK.

Aiming DBZ at children was one of the best ideas Funi had. Also, not having a 50 year old woman voice adult Goku was another great idea. The sound of the Japanese DBZ is just too weird to fit America, especially late 90s America.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:27 pm

McDonaldsGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:24 pm
Funimation had no part in making DBZ the phenomenon it was in the west? OK.

Aiming DBZ at children was one of the best ideas Funi had. Also, not having a 50 year old woman voice adult Goku was another great idea. The sound of the Japanese DBZ is just too weird to fit America, especially late 90s America.
The best thing FUNi did was put it on a station at a time the target audience watched.

DBZ is a show that's aimed at kids, it's simply that US kids are more coddled so something aimed at a similar age group in Japan seems more appropriate for older kids here. What's your basis for claiming original DBZ was too weird for 90s Americans?
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:28 pm

McDonaldsGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:08 pm
There's a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z - it's so different from Dragon Ball.
Yes, there is a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z, and it has nothing to do with ongoing gradual narrative shifts that those involved in the production at the time would have had little way of seeing in a broader context. No one in 1989 could have said, "Dragon Ball is this, while Dragon Ball Z is this" like fans can today with the benefit of hindsight because at the time, it was still being written. It's called Dragon Ball Z because Morishita Kouzou realized that launching a new series instead of continuing with the existing one would come with the added bonus of an increased marketing budget. That is literally all there is to it.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:31 pm

Just gonna note that in a 2020 conversation about “are we really still having the Faulconer discussion all you subbies?????” to come in with “50 year old woman voicing a grown man” and not be ironic about it is totally bizarre.

Also knock off the “you’re projecting / no YOU’RE projecting!!!”

Also y’all totally falling for the OP topic bait. I really wish that person would come back and contribute. Much insight. So valuable.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by McDonaldsGuy » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:33 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:28 pm
McDonaldsGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:08 pm
There's a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z - it's so different from Dragon Ball.
Yes, there is a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z, and it has nothing to do with ongoing gradual narrative shifts that those involved in the production at the time would have had little way of seeing in a broader context. No one in 1989 could have said, "Dragon Ball is this, while Dragon Ball Z is this" like fans can today with the benefit of hindsight because at the time, it was still being written. It's called Dragon Ball Z because Morishita Kouzou realized that launching a new series instead of continuing with the existing one would come with the added bonus of an increased marketing budget. That is literally all there is to it.
Yes, they were able to change that marketing because of the huge tonal shifts. There's a reason it happened with the arrival of Raditz, and not Demon King Piccolo. Goku (and Piccolo) being aliens was such a twist it was a retcon AFAIC.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:37 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:28 pm
McDonaldsGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:08 pm
There's a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z - it's so different from Dragon Ball.
Yes, there is a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z, and it has nothing to do with ongoing gradual narrative shifts that those involved in the production at the time would have had little way of seeing in a broader context. No one in 1989 could have said, "Dragon Ball is this, while Dragon Ball Z is this" like fans can today with the benefit of hindsight because at the time, it was still being written. It's called Dragon Ball Z because Morishita Kouzou realized that launching a new series instead of continuing with the existing one would come with the added bonus of an increased marketing budget. That is literally all there is to it.
and really it wasnt very different from the 23'd tournament saga until way into it

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:37 pm

McDonaldsGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:33 pm
Yes, they were able to change that marketing because of the huge tonal shifts. There's a reason it happened with the arrival of Raditz, and not Demon King Piccolo. Goku (and Piccolo) being aliens was such a twist it was a retcon AFAIC.
No. The reason it happened at Raditz is because Morishita took over as the showrunner right as the 23rd Tenkaichi Budoukai started. The arrival of Raditz happened to be the first storyline break that occurred after he took over and came up with this idea. Also, I didn't say the marketing "changed." I said they were given more money for it because it was a new series to promote.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:43 pm

McDonaldsGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:33 pm
Gaffer Tape wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:28 pm
McDonaldsGuy wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:08 pm
There's a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z - it's so different from Dragon Ball.
Yes, there is a reason Toei called it Dragon Ball Z, and it has nothing to do with ongoing gradual narrative shifts that those involved in the production at the time would have had little way of seeing in a broader context. No one in 1989 could have said, "Dragon Ball is this, while Dragon Ball Z is this" like fans can today with the benefit of hindsight because at the time, it was still being written. It's called Dragon Ball Z because Morishita Kouzou realized that launching a new series instead of continuing with the existing one would come with the added bonus of an increased marketing budget. That is literally all there is to it.
Yes, they were able to change that marketing because of the huge tonal shifts. There's a reason it happened with the arrival of Raditz, and not Demon King Piccolo. Goku (and Piccolo) being aliens was such a twist it was a retcon AFAIC.
The shifts were gradual with a handful of watershed moments.
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