Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:53 am

Kokonoe wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:44 am

What do you think?
I think even when it comes to dub replacement scores Faulconer was the worst one. I’d put Wasserman, Johnson, and even Menza over Faulconer’s ear torture score. The voice acting wasn’t the only thing that got worse with the original Funi dub when the cast switch to in-house the music got way worse too.

I also find it hilarious to give Faulconer credit for being more modern when it now sounds even more dated than the Kikuchi score. The Kikuchi score definitely exhibits an “this was made in the 80s” vibe (because it was) at times but it mostly has a timeless feel to it. The Falconzord score couldn’t sound any more like it was made at the turn of the 21st century.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:26 am

"Is it time to stop caring about respecting the music and sound design teams of Dragon Ball in favor of being cheap and replacing the audio with a completely different composer's work?"

EDIT: *Tries hitting Save Draft button so she can finish post on her Desktop, hits post button* Welp. Lousy screen protector.

I think that it's 100% fair to not like the work of Kikuchi Shunsuke and Music Placement Miyashita Shigeru or the influence of the various episode directors and series directors. Sometimes I do not, either! Hell, Dragon Ball Super's sound design is utterly atrocious and I feel like I harp on it constantly. I do think it's disingenuous to deny what Kikuchi, Miyashita et al were aiming for in developing the sound design of the series. It's a lot more expertly crafted and reliant on placement of sound and silence than just Mickey Mousing. Some of us have disabilities and get nauseated by constant, frenetic music that wildly changes by the frame or cut. Having consistently composed music as separate tracks that can be reused rather than constantly re-scoring is also a much more intelligent use of resources. A small, memorable bank of music that staff can master use of and viewers can memorize is a far better tactic from my perspective as someone who fantasizes about making her own film and television.

I won't speak about the actual quality of the music since I can hardly remember it.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by VegettoEX » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:28 am

Julie, if you’re not interested in having the conversation, you’re under no obligation to post. The rhetorical nonsense and other brief posts are not welcome.

Same goes for others (being under no obligation to post). Keep the drive-by comments to yourself.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:00 am

My screen-protector makes it difficult to type properly on my phone so I tried hitting Save Draft to I could switch over to Desktop but my thumb must have hit Post. Muh bad. I edited my post to actually include the behemoth paragraph I'd intended to from the start.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:27 am

The “Faulconer” OST is an aberration though, and came in rather late to the series. On top of that, the handling was rather terrible (droning on 24/7). It was way too bloated as well.
It also had no recurring themes (aka in different versions of the same melody which even Kikuchi’s score had even though they were mostly on the same scale) and barely anything even resembling an orchestra.
Even for me who thinks the original OST (minus all vocal themes, those are on point) for the most part only goes best with retro 70’s animation, literally none of the JP composers that I prefer to the one they used for the overall series would have sounded anything like what the Faulconer productions team did. Even if they were mostly doing material like Solid State Scouter.
Not to mention how it can sound rather crass and noisy at times. The actual people who composed much of that OST were not established or all that experienced. It also overused ambient sounds and other synth effects that even included copied guitar (some of which sounded rather bad).

Also, a side note, but shouldn’t this be in the music section?
Last edited by GhostEmperorX on Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:50 am

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:33 am
Planetnamek wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 4:05 am
Funny I actually like it more as an adult now then I did as a kid.

I'm sure Kunzait will have a novel-length post tearing Faulconer a new asshole any day now :lol:
I'm a fan of synth but... come on. Faulconer's score sounds as if the only music he'd ever listened to was Bret Hart's WWF theme.
From looking at the posts of one cRookie on here(who actually did work for Faulconer Productions)you learn it was Funimation themselves(I.E.Barry Watson)that demanded that particular sound, FP were basically just doing what their client wanted, and FP is more then just Bruce himself, it's made up of several different musicians.

I will say it's not just synth music though, there are some genuine impressive non-synth themes like this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufq0OBvg2k
GhostEmperorX wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:27 am
The “Faulconer” OST is an aberration though, and came in rather late to the series. On top of that, the handling was rather terrible (droning on 24/7). It was way too bloated as well.
It also had no recurring themes (aka in different versions of the same melody which even Kikuchi’s score had even though they were mostly on the same scale) and barely anything even resembling an orchestra.
Even for me who thinks the original OST (minus all vocal themes, those are on point) for the most part only goes best with retro 70’s animation, literally none of the JP composers that I prefer to the one they used for the overall series would have sounded anything like what the Faulconer productions team did. Even if they were mostly doing material like Solid State Scouter.
Not to mention how it can sound rather crass and noisy at times. The actual people who composed much of that OST were not established or all that experienced. It also overused ambient sounds and other synth effects that even included copied guitar (so,e of which sounded rather bad).

Also, a side note, but shouldn’t this be in the music section?
I dunno that theme I just linked sounds pretty "orchestral" to me, I do agree that this topic should be moved to the music section though.

FP was a talented group of individuals and that particular tone of the OST had nothing to do with their experience or lake thereof and everything to do with Funi's very specific set of demands for them.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:58 am

It worked for the heavily altered tone of the dub they were going for back in 1999/2000, though replacement scores is a thing they and most other dubbing production companies largely don't do anymore
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:09 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:58 am
It worked for the heavily altered tone of the dub they were going for back in 1999/2000, though replacement scores is a thing they and most other dubbing production companies largely don't do anymore
Yes it seems The Pokemon Company are the only ones out there still doing replacement scores and ironically in their case they are replacing far more of the original score than 4Kids ever did to the point where it's very much divided the fanbase. Pokemon feels downright anachronistic with it being basically the only big anime that does not have an official way to watch the original version in the U.S.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Rory » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:22 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:50 am
I will say it's not just synth music though, there are some genuine impressive non-synth themes like this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufq0OBvg2k
That's literally synth music.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Gligarman » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:32 pm

I will always stand by Shunsuke Kikuchi‘s score. He understood the tone of the show and never let the music become a distraction. One of the reasons I never liked the music used in the dub is because it never stops. It’s constant, there’s never any dramatic or even comedic silence.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:38 pm


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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by eledoremassis02 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:05 pm

I think it works as a soundtrack and not so much with the visuals of the show. It's got that late 90s vibe and I think it would probably work better with newer animation? (Maybe super??) or if it toned itself down a bit.

One thing I don't like about it tho, is it was too obsessed with themes where the music got cut weird because a character theme had to play.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:07 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:53 am

I also find it hilarious to give Faulconer credit for being more modern when it now sounds even more dated than the Kikuchi score. The Kikuchi score definitely exhibits an “this was made in the 70s” vibe (because it was) at times but it mostly has a timeless feel to it. The Falconzord score couldn’t sound any more like it was made at the turn of the 21st century.
Fixed that bit for you, because Kōichi Sugiyama and others were composing much more quality material right from 1980 (Ideon) while you can comfortably use most of Kikuchi's score in the likes of Grendizer and Daimos, and they'd fit with little issue. They both sound dated and the Faulconer team score really does sound like something of a fading trend.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by XanatosVanBadass » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:11 pm

One thing that always stuck out at me from what I watched from the Funi dub OST is how, Vegeta or Piccolo would be shown on screen (pretty much no matter what was happening) they couldn’t resist playing their respective “themes”. It was almost comical. :lol:

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:16 pm

XanatosVanBadass wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:11 pm
One thing that always stuck out at me from what I watched from the Funi dub OST is how, Vegeta or Piccolo would be shown on screen (pretty much no matter what was happening) they couldn’t resist playing their respective “themes”. It was almost comical. :lol:
Gah as much as I adore Kikuchi’s theme for Piccolo could you imagine how old it would get if it played every second he was on screen?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by samuraix123 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:26 pm

Arteaga4K wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:49 am
Uh oh.....
I seen this and laughed. It actually shouldn't be a thing were we see topics like this and think ''oh lord...Somebody's gonna get tore a new one'' :lol: I do think the main title could have been worded better because I get a feeling of ''We need to just accept it's better'' or maybe that's just me. :? But I honestly don't believe there is no right or wrong answer here. We're all different people with different tastes. I like the US score and Japanese score and Yamamotto for Kai. I actually don't know who did the music for Ocean? Was that Funi? I honestly don't keep up with all the people behind this and that and I consider myself a pretty hardcore fan lol
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:28 pm

samuraix123 wrote:I do think the main title could have been worded better because I get a feeling of ''We need to just accept it's better'' or maybe that's just me. :?
No it wasn’t you it was clearly the OP’s intent to pass it off as a “speaking the truth” thing



I actually don't know who did the music for Ocean? Was that Funi? I honestly don't keep up with all the people behind this and that and I consider myself a pretty hardcore fan lol
The soundtrack for the Funi/Ocean/Saban dub was done by Saban at Funimation’s request to have a replacement score. The later stuff from the Ab Groupe era was just recycled from other Ocean group shows (Megaman and Monster Rancher)

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by ABED » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:33 pm

One of the many problems I have with the Faulconer score is it doesn't feel like part of a whole. First, the dub scores are all different so it doesn't feel coherent, and then there's the issue of a US score over a very Asian show.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:57 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:33 pm
One of the many problems I have with the Faulconer score is it doesn't feel like part of a whole. First, the dub scores are all different so it doesn't feel coherent, and then there's the issue of a US score over a very Asian show.
Agreed. It seems to be a problem with composing being handled by a group of people rather than one person alone, and when they have to make too many just to fill up the silence (as a consequence of Funimation's bad direction). And there's also the previously mentioned tidbit of its late arrival in the show.
It ends up being a broken clock that misses a lot but only hits a few times.
But then it wasn't used for the original DB, which is at least good enough.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Planetnamek » Wed Feb 19, 2020 2:02 pm

Rory wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 12:22 pm
Planetnamek wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 11:50 am
I will say it's not just synth music though, there are some genuine impressive non-synth themes like this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ufq0OBvg2k
That's literally synth music.
Does not sound like what most people that hate the Faulconer score think of when they say synth music though.
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