Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:58 am

VDenter wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 8:43 am
The only thing i accept is that thankfully this soundtrack has disappeared from all future DB material and if new fans are going to get into the series it will be likely with the original superior in every single way OST. Faulconer was never good. I actually once went through the entire list out of curiosity to see if there was even a single track that could be considered decent and tried to give this soundtrack a fair shake, and i didn't find any single good track. It is just obnoxious sound that doesn't fit any material, especially not DB.

It says something to me that the sound quality of the GBA Legacy of Goku 2 and 3 wasn't that much worse than it was in the show, and might have been better in a few select moments. It just indicates how poor the Faulconer score really is when the GBA hardware can output sound that is pretty much identical to the shit music that was used for the equally shit dub.
Or rather, the team coupled with the absurd handling by Funimation. Literally no one would have sounded like what they did.
And as far as OST’s, which ones outside of DB from either anime or elsewhere do you like or prefer?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Beiga » Fri Feb 21, 2020 1:55 pm

No, it is not, in fact, time. Nor will it ever be. That "music" was butts.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Fri Feb 21, 2020 9:46 pm

Oh, and even considering the fact that a lot of Kikuchi’s works were either on F minor or C minor (to a lesser extent), he still made different variations of the same melodies, something totally lacking in the FP BGM where they just make a theme, play the same one over and over again, or just throw them away and make entirely new ones from scratch (not the way to do proper scoring).

Not even in the West did just about any other media sound like it did.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:11 am
But no fans don't need to "accept" a score that was needlessly imposed on the dub and also clashes with the tone. It's also not particularly modern anymore and it's attempt to sound modern actually dated it worse than Kikuchi's score.
Really the only things the original score needed updating in were the recording quality and the scale placements (aka not putting all or most of the eggs in one basket), as well as not sounding too similar to his earlier works a decade or two prior. Or just upping the standard in general. They could keep the orchestra & most everything else, concurrent series did as much, in both the 80’s and 90’s.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by funrush » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:23 pm

Title implies that those who prefer Kikuchi are in denial LOL

And no. Faulconer's score is cool but I like Kikuchi's better. Arguing over "modern" is pointless as both scores are dated at this point. Kikuchi's just works better for me, I like the songs more most of the time. Although there's some great tracks in Faulconer's also.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:48 pm

funrush wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 11:23 pm
And no. Faulconer's score is cool but I like Kikuchi's better. Arguing over "modern" is pointless as both scores are dated at this point.
Precisely. And you know, this would likely have been avoided had the arranger of Makafushigi Adventure been the composer for the whole show from the original to Z, or just the original because even for 1986 Kikuchi’s score works for that one.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Fionordequester » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:46 am

The Team Faulconer is my favorite anime OST of all time, for what it's worth. I always did find it far superior to Kikuchi's.

That said, there's no shame in thinking Kikuchi is better, instead. We're all different.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:54 am

Anyways, since this thread is basically over, it will never not be hilarious (or sad) that Toei checkmated themselves by hiring an arranger larping as a composer to handle OST duties for any section of the franchise.
Don’t think any other huge franchise or studio has had to retract so many BGM’s from so much media all at once.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Kokonoe » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:04 am

90sDBZ wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:46 am
I've always preferred Team Faulconer to Kikuchi myself, although Kikuchi has grown on me quite a bit over the years.

I don't think the Faulconer score gets enough credit for how it handled some of the more peaceful scenes, like Goku saying goodbye to Mystic Gohan, or the part where everyone gets revived after Namek. Anyone who says it's nothing but mindless rock clearly hasn't heard it in its entirety, as it makes some of the really touching moments more... touching?

Aside from that it absolutely nails the big moments, like Goku going SS3, Vegeta turning SS1, Gohan going Mystic, the final beam struggle vs Cell, Kid Buu's death etc..

I know it's nothing like what you would ever hear in the Wuxia genre, and nothing like how Toriyama would have wanted, but for what Funimation's English dub of Dragon Ball Z was trying to be it fit perfectly. And it's damn good music on its own too, although I will acknowledge it was hurt by lack of silent moments.
Honestly Toriyama would most likely love it being he works on many video games and is use to synth music!

But yeah dude Faulconer just hits these highs Kikuchi can't.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Kokonoe » Sat Feb 22, 2020 3:25 am

Ajay wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 10:42 am
Drepanosaurus wrote:
Thu Feb 20, 2020 10:00 am
The title seems very flame baity to me. Nothing beats the original Japanese score if you ask me.
The majority of Kokonoe's threads since returning from their temporary ban have been transparently bait-based, and if they think we don't see that, then... Hmm.

People respond in good faith so we let them stand.
Ehehe. Oh I'm not hiding anything. From my avatar being a Hamtaro mashup of the dude from Ninja Scroll, to various topics and responses I'm just here to fuck around. Why? Simple.

My first 3 month ban here was telling some alt-right dude to fuck off. My second 3 month ban was responding to Kunzait in the disrespectful way he was talking to me. However big boy VegettoEX make no mistake is a ridiculous Japanese purist with this series so Kunzait wasn't and will not be punished for most of the rude or incorrect statements he makes because he's saying the things VegettoEX likes.

Don't forget, Mr VegettoEX use to ban people for saying "Destructo Disc". He's certainly not as professional as he likes to come across, at the end of the day he's just another fan like everyone else.

When I received my previous ban I sent VegettoEX a message requested it be made a permanent ban and it went on deaf ears.

So I thought to myself, "what would be a funny way to get myself banned?", and it came to me. I would emulate how other people have communicated on this website and portray myself how people behind the scenes talk to me. And oh yes, Zephyr, Hellspawn, and Kunzait. I have eyes in your little Discord. And yes that was me with the Winnie the Pooh. ;)

You could say I was inspired by Cipher's self proclaimed "April Fools" post in a discussion thread.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38175&hilit=faulconer&start=160
If Dragon Ball Z came back on TV, it would have the Faulconer score, and I'll tell you why.

While you weaboos were sucking on your mothers' tits at the nerd library jacking off to Yu-Gi-Oh volumes, I was hitting the gym every god.damn.day listening to the real-ass OG original Dragon Ball FUCKING Z (epic!) with my boy Bruce playing through my apple wristwatch. That's right. I bring my apple watch to the gym. I do a hundred reps. I do a hundred-fifty reps. I do two-hundred fucking reps because it doesn't matter; I've got screaming and endless electric guitar noodling in my ear. It's a living hell that I can't get enough of. Vegeta, Prince of Saiyans, is my boy. Gohan is my boy. Toriyama is my boy. Bruce Faulconer is my boy. Because Toriyama knows his series is bad-ass and epic and this Mickey Moused electronic VHS-porn-styled soundscape is just the way it was meant to be seen. I lift to that every fucking minute and it gets me rock hard. What? You've never popped a boner to Dragon Ball? I do it every day when I leave my girl in bed because it's so epic. Babies cry, and maybe while you sissies are listening to DB with spaghetti-Western violin noodling and boings, your eyes get wet like little girls, I'm busy being a muscular manchild watching the Ginyu Assault saga with with my boy Bruce.

I don't approach media any differently than when I was a kid.

Sometimes when I'm doing six or seven shots of protein, I put on the Kikuchi score as a joke. My girlfriend comes out and she says, "Why are you playing this joke?" Then I tell her not to bother me because I'm on fucking Reddit. I play Vegeta vs. Pui Pui with my boy BF (what! what!) because it gets me pumped and it is so epic.

I don't need to tell you that it's more epic.

It's more epic and cooler.

I haven't watched a full episode since I was ten.

I am unemployed.

Get back to the anime bookstore you nerds.
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So until I get the ban I'm wanting, I'm going to keep creating these threads. And they are going to get progressively worse.

I do not like this place, nor do I like the people here. I consider you people overtly self important and honestly kind of ridiculous. So it's been fun giving that a bit back lately.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Fionordequester » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:32 am

Why not separate from the site for a bit, then? If you want to post, you can, and if you don't want to, you'll be free to do that as well?

A permanent ban is... well, permanent. It's better to have many options than few options, right?
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:55 am

The Japanese music is meant to sound old fashion which makes it enjoyable. It's both vintage and authentic in my opinion. It's similar how Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music is.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:16 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:55 am
The Japanese music is meant to sound old fashion which makes it enjoyable. It's both vintage and authentic in my opinion. It's similar how Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music is.
So it’s a feature and not a bug... is that what one needs to expect from the series BGM to enjoy it as opposed to literally every other concurrent series out there?

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:14 am

GhostEmperorX wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:16 am
Hellspawn28 wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:55 am
The Japanese music is meant to sound old fashion which makes it enjoyable. It's both vintage and authentic in my opinion. It's similar how Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music is.
So it’s a feature and not a bug... is that what one needs to expect from the series BGM to enjoy it as opposed to literally every other concurrent series out there?
Is what one needs to expect?
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:31 am

ABED wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:14 am
GhostEmperorX wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:16 am
Hellspawn28 wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 4:55 am
The Japanese music is meant to sound old fashion which makes it enjoyable. It's both vintage and authentic in my opinion. It's similar how Akira Ifukube's Godzilla music is.
So it’s a feature and not a bug... is that what one needs to expect from the series BGM to enjoy it as opposed to literally every other concurrent series out there?
Is what one needs to expect?
As in, it’s no use getting hyped or hoping for anything spectacular in that regard, which I once made the mistake of doing.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:05 am

GhostEmperorX wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:31 am
ABED wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:14 am
GhostEmperorX wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:16 am
So it’s a feature and not a bug... is that what one needs to expect from the series BGM to enjoy it as opposed to literally every other concurrent series out there?
Is what one needs to expect?
As in, it’s no use getting hyped or hoping for anything spectacular in that regard, which I once made the mistake of doing.
I'm still not sure what the point is that you're driving at. Hellspawn says the music is meant to sound old fashioned so are you implying it's good but not spectacular?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:08 am

ABED wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:05 am
GhostEmperorX wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 9:31 am
ABED wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 8:14 am
Is what one needs to expect?
As in, it’s no use getting hyped or hoping for anything spectacular in that regard, which I once made the mistake of doing.
I'm still not sure what the point is that you're driving at. Hellspawn says the music is meant to sound old fashioned so are you implying it's good but not spectacular?
Something like that, but I also personally can’t match what’s clearly a 70’s style BGM to a late 80’s-90’s production (especially since it’s a level lower than said 2 decades by virtue of that).
If DB were made in the 70’s I’d have zero issue with it as I have none with any other 70’s production by Toei or anyone else that uses Kikuchi soundtracks or similar material from others.

Plus only the most standout and well-done soundtracks from anywhere even catch my interest.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by ABED » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:24 am

DB was something of a throwback anyway. It's meant to have a feel of old Kung Fu movies.
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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:30 am

I don’t know why sounding older has to mean bad. To use another kid show score as an example Batman the animated series deliberately sounds like you’re watching from the 1940s with its musical score to invoke the feeling of a Fleischer Superman cartoon or old 1940’s noir film. Dragon Ball was going for “1970s kung fu flick” and if worked fine.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by GhostEmperorX » Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:46 am

ABED wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:24 am
DB was something of a throwback anyway. It's meant to have a feel of old Kung Fu movies.
But is that really all it is when it became so much more in its own right?
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:30 am
I don’t know why sounding older has to mean bad. To use another kid show score as an example Batman the animated series deliberately sounds like you’re watching from the 1940s with its musical score to invoke the feeling of a Fleischer Superman cartoon or old 1940’s noir film. Dragon Ball was going for “1970s kung fu flick” and if worked fine.
That’s a cartoon though, JP anime always had better material. I’ve also heard similar stuff in Grendizer and Daimos, 2 earlier projects of Kikuchi’s that just happen to be mecha, a completely different genre. Speaking of which, G Gundam was also Kung Fu flick in style, but it didn’t settle when it came to the OST (as an example).
What I’m saying is that it could easily have been so much better and likely more high standard for the show, but maybe that wouldn’t work for it at all given some previous explanations. A lot of these were even composed for the movies so they can’t be linked to just one character or event, it’s effectively just a baseline minimum for typecast situations and not much more. So we can’t expect the same thing of DB’s BGM that we do of other anime series, both concurrent and later?
You can at least improve the audio recording quality though, that would make it at least more palatable, or do what DBZ: Kakarot did which is redo the scores in better quality.

My main problem is when people hype it so much or put it in a pedestal and then it always turns out disappointing (for me and likely many others) due to high expectations. Rather than being honest like this.

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Re: Is it time to accept Faulconer OST did it better than the original?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:02 am

GhostEmperorX wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 10:46 am


That’s a cartoon though,
What if I told you Dragon Ball is also a cartoon?

Also musical taste is subjective clearly a lot of people like the Faulconer score. People hyping up the Kikuchi score and you not liking it isn’t an inherent problem.

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