FUNimations push to "uncut"

[eledoremassis02]

What made FUNimation decide to push Uncut releases of the movies (and potentially the series) in the late 90s? I'm assuming saban had little to no authority on the 3 films (outside the TV edited Tree of Might). Were the movies kind of a test to see how fans (now established) would react to a more authentic portrayal of the source material?

Watching Dead Zone so it got me wondering.

[MasenkoHA]

What made FUNimation decide to push Uncut releases of the movies (and potentially the series) in the late 90s? I'm assuming saban had little to no authority on the 3 films (outside the TV edited Tree of Might). Were the movies kind of a test to see how fans (now established) would react to a more authentic portrayal of the source material?

Watching Dead Zone so it got me wondering.

I think they were just exploring it as a potential market and realized it could make a mint.

Early comments from Fukanaga and Watson made it seem like they weren’t too sure. Saying stuff like bootlegs made it impossible to profit from it and what not.

The Pioneer films probably sold well enough to indicate to Funimation there was profit in going the uncut route for home video.

[10gigtriforce]

I think i remember reading that the first uncut release was a test. they knew cut would sell since ocean dub did. But they also saw that the uncut movies did well too, and a lot of hard core fans(like my older cousins) were already trading around uncut vhs fansub'd versions of dbz so they was a precedent of people paying for uncut dbz.

once the first uncut sold well enough I'm guessing they did that with the rest. to get the kiddie money and big kid money

[Planetnamek]

I'm sure fansites like DBZU helped Funimation with their decision as the demand from people like Psaros to stop censoring the show certainly got their attention.

[ABED]

I doubt Psaros had much impact, much in the same way I don't think TFS had much impact as per the other thread. I think FUNi was responding to a growing trend of dubbing companies editing anime less and less.

[VegettoEX]

To that point, DBZ movie 1 was already out (December 1997) by the time Chris started "DBZ Uncensored" (later in 1998). He had zero influence in that regard. (Hell, all three were probably out by the time his site started?) Any influence Chris' site would have had would have been on the home video side of things, and we already had quotes long before that point from Fukunaga that they were planning on doing that anyway.

It was the partnership with Pioneer doing the distribution, the acknowledgement of who their market was by that point a season and a half in, and aligning with the rest of the marketplace.

[eledoremassis02]

To that point, DBZ movie 1 was already out (December 1997) by the time Chris started "DBZ Uncensored" (later in 1998). He had zero influence in that regard. (Hell, all three were probably out by the time his site started?) Any influence Chris' site would have had would have been on the home video side of things, and we already had quotes long before that point from Fukunaga that they were planning on doing that anyway.

It was the partnership with Pioneer doing the distribution, the acknowledgement of who their market was by that point a season and a half in, and aligning with the rest of the marketplace.

Thank you for the information! Was Saban out by this point or did they not really count as these were movies and not episodes and more direct to video? I never really thought about Saban and the films before

[VegettoEX]

"Dead Zone" was out in December 1997, and season two's broadcast was still continuing into winter/spring in early 1998 (having started in fall 1997). They overlapped.

[Scsigs]

I doubt Psaros had much impact, much in the same way I don't think TFS had much impact as per the other thread. I think FUNi was responding to a growing trend of dubbing companies editing anime less and less.

Well, TFS, I think, had a little bit of an impact. By the time FUNi got the license to Kai & started dubbing it, DBZA had been running for 2-3 years &, despite being a parody, presented the original material as-is from the Japanese "Son Goku," "Son Gohan," "Tenshinhan," attack names, etc. Chris Sabat, who directs & showruns the dubs, is a noted big fan & friend of theirs. I honestly think TFS inspired him to take more risks with DB in terms of the dubs, especially since they were in the still relative beginning period of the quality anime dubs we now have an abundance of today. Now, that's not to say that FUNi wasn't already a good dubbing company, it's just that Dragon Ball, for the longest time, was plagued with good to mediocre dubs, but never great or outstanding. TFS came along made by a mix of fans of the dubs & sub alike to give a product that errs more to the Japanese side of things, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that Sabat took a bit of inspiration from them coupled with his own regrets about the older dubs as their director.

[MasenkoHA]

I doubt Psaros had much impact, much in the same way I don't think TFS had much impact as per the other thread. I think FUNi was responding to a growing trend of dubbing companies editing anime less and less.

Well, TFS, I think, had a little bit of an impact. By the time FUNi got the license to Kai & started dubbing it, DBZA had been running for 2-3 years &, despite being a parody, presented the original material as-is from the Japanese "Son Goku," "Son Gohan," "Tenshinhan," attack names, etc. Chris Sabat, who directs & showruns the dubs, is a noted big fan & friend of theirs. I honestly think TFS inspired him to take more risks with DB in terms of the dubs, especially since they were in the still relative beginning period of the quality anime dubs we now have an abundance of today. Now, that's not to say that FUNi wasn't already a good dubbing company, it's just that Dragon Ball, for the longest time, was plagued with good to mediocre dubs, but never great or outstanding. TFS came along made by a mix of fans of the dubs & sub alike to give a product that errs more to the Japanese side of things, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that Sabat took a bit of inspiration from them coupled with his own regrets about the older dubs as their director.

You’re giving them too much credit. Sabat always seemed more about staying more faithful long before TFS abridged series. He wrote the English adaptation for Z movie 8 which was one of the better post-pioneer/ocean efforts script wise. Most of the loose adapting in the earlier days come from Barry Watson and Chris Neel

The only thing TFS influenced in the dub is some dumb meme nods in Kai and Super.

[jjgp1112]

I doubt Psaros had much impact, much in the same way I don't think TFS had much impact as per the other thread. I think FUNi was responding to a growing trend of dubbing companies editing anime less and less.

Well, TFS, I think, had a little bit of an impact. By the time FUNi got the license to Kai & started dubbing it, DBZA had been running for 2-3 years &, despite being a parody, presented the original material as-is from the Japanese "Son Goku," "Son Gohan," "Tenshinhan," attack names, etc. Chris Sabat, who directs & showruns the dubs, is a noted big fan & friend of theirs. I honestly think TFS inspired him to take more risks with DB in terms of the dubs, especially since they were in the still relative beginning period of the quality anime dubs we now have an abundance of today. Now, that's not to say that FUNi wasn't already a good dubbing company, it's just that Dragon Ball, for the longest time, was plagued with good to mediocre dubs, but never great or outstanding. TFS came along made by a mix of fans of the dubs & sub alike to give a product that errs more to the Japanese side of things, so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to say that Sabat took a bit of inspiration from them coupled with his own regrets about the older dubs as their director.

Ugggghh, this is side tracking the thread enough but when Funi started dubbing Kai TFS either hadn't even started season 2 or just started it. They were still purely a gag dub and I doubt them using the right names inspired Sabat to reach a thought that could EASILY arrive interdependently. Especially since accurate names was a very inconsequential aspect of Abridged anyway.

By the time Kai came out, Funi was already on a role with their extremely faithful One Piece dub that Sabat was involved in, and Kai was a continuation of that philosophy.

[Scsigs]

You’re giving them too much credit. Sabat always seemed more about staying more faithful long before TFS abridged series. He wrote the English adaptation for Z movie 8 which was one of the better post-pioneer/ocean efforts script wise. Most of the loose adapting in the earlier days come from Barry Watson and Chris Neel.

The only thing TFS influenced in the dub is some dumb meme nods in Kai and Super.

I know Sabat regrets the old dub stuff. He's said that multiple times in the last 10 years. Maybe I am giving them a little too much credit, but I'd be shocked if they didn't influence more than some tongue-in-cheek jokes & nods at them & fans. Let's be honest, these kinds of fan projects have funny ways of reaching the original creators of these things. 4Kids directly referenced Little Kuriboh in one of their dubbed episodes of GX & it's clear that some of the storyboard artists at Toei have watched TFS at some point or another, given the few quick references within the animation itself (Mr. Popo having his eyes shown in a close-up to the camera being the most obvious one I can think of). I'd be shocked if Sabat didn't use their version to step up his game as a director, producer, & actor in some small way, given TFS showed what fans wanted at the time when they made fun of the dub errors & other things. With those 2 long gone from the company by that point, he had free reign to do so.

But, then again, we don't know what exactly was going on behind the scenes & them being the official actors & others behind the dubs makes it extremely hard for them to endorse TFS in regards to DBZA as long as FUNi remains the company that distributes DB in NA, as shown with how much trouble Sabat got into for trying to sneak them in 3 years ago, which got the main TFS members "greylisted" from the company, so we may never know either way. Either way, both did really well alongside each other as DB came back into prominence in pop culture, which was great for both products.

Ugggghh, this is side tracking the thread enough but when Funi started dubbing Kai TFS either hadn't even started season 2 or just started it. They were still purely a gag dub and I doubt them using the right names inspired Sabat to reach a thought that could EASILY arrive interdependently. Especially since accurate names was a very inconsequential aspect of Abridged anyway.

By the time Kai came out, Funi was already on a role with their extremely faithful One Piece dub that Sabat was involved in, and Kai was a continuation of that philosophy.

True. As I said, we don't exactly know what was going on. I brought up the point about Sabat having no one telling him to largely change the show for its new audience. They were several episodes into season 2 when the first dubbed Kai episode premiered on Nicktoons in 2010, but that doesn't necessarily mean that TFS' influence didn't grow on them as they continued. If I'm reaching, fine. I'd think that Sabat had influence from them in some way, but I hardly say that was a bad thing, given how great Kai's dub is regardless.

As I said, there were good dubs, but that was the time they were starting (as well as I wouldn't say the One Piece dub became truly great & came into its own until it came back in 2012). Those weren't exactly the standard yet. I'd argue anime dubbing didn't become like it is until a little after Kai started, though some dubs remain bad for no reason (Yugioh & Pokemon being 2 I know of). Sabat's also only an actor on One Piece. Other than DB, I don't know if he's personally involved in a lot of other dub projects other than being a recurring actor at FUNi. And, I said that that was the first good to great dub in the franchise in English*. The early 2010s is where they really came into their own as a dubbing company.

*For FUNi themselves to have produced, forgot to add that.

[eledoremassis02]

Spoiler:

You’re giving them too much credit. Sabat always seemed more about staying more faithful long before TFS abridged series. He wrote the English adaptation for Z movie 8 which was one of the better post-pioneer/ocean efforts script wise. Most of the loose adapting in the earlier days come from Barry Watson and Chris Neel.

The only thing TFS influenced in the dub is some dumb meme nods in Kai and Super.

I know Sabat regrets the old dub stuff. He's said that multiple times in the last 10 years. Maybe I am giving them a little too much credit, but I'd be shocked if they didn't influence more than some tongue-in-cheek jokes & nods at them & fans. Let's be honest, these kinds of fan projects have funny ways of reaching the original creators of these things. 4Kids directly referenced Little Kuriboh in one of their dubbed episodes of GX & it's clear that some of the storyboard artists at Toei have watched TFS at some point or another, given the few quick references within the animation itself (Mr. Popo having his eyes shown in a close-up to the camera being the most obvious one I can think of). I'd be shocked if Sabat didn't use their version to step up his game as a director, producer, & actor in some small way, given TFS showed what fans wanted at the time when they made fun of the dub errors & other things. With those 2 long gone from the company by that point, he had free reign to do so.

But, then again, we don't know what exactly was going on behind the scenes & them being the official actors & others behind the dubs makes it extremely hard for them to endorse TFS in regards to DBZA as long as FUNi remains the company that distributes DB in NA, as shown with how much trouble Sabat got into for trying to sneak them in 3 years ago, which got the main TFS members "greylisted" from the company, so we may never know either way. Either way, both did really well alongside each other as DB came back into prominence in pop culture, which was great for both products.

Ugggghh, this is side tracking the thread enough but when Funi started dubbing Kai TFS either hadn't even started season 2 or just started it. They were still purely a gag dub and I doubt them using the right names inspired Sabat to reach a thought that could EASILY arrive interdependently. Especially since accurate names was a very inconsequential aspect of Abridged anyway.

By the time Kai came out, Funi was already on a role with their extremely faithful One Piece dub that Sabat was involved in, and Kai was a continuation of that philosophy.

True. As I said, we don't exactly know what was going on. I brought up the point about Sabat having no one telling him to largely change the show for its new audience. They were several episodes into season 2 when the first dubbed Kai episode premiered on Nicktoons in 2010, but that doesn't necessarily mean that TFS' influence didn't grow on them as they continued. If I'm reaching, fine. I'd think that Sabat had influence from them in some way, but I hardly say that was a bad thing, given how great Kai's dub is regardless.

As I said, there were good dubs, but that was the time they were starting (as well as I wouldn't say the One Piece dub became truly great & came into its own until it came back in 2012). Those weren't exactly the standard yet. I'd argue anime dubbing didn't become like it is until a little after Kai started, though some dubs remain bad for no reason (Yugioh & Pokemon being 2 I know of). Sabat's also only an actor on One Piece. Other than DB, I don't know if he's personally involved in a lot of other dub projects other than being a recurring actor at FUNi. And, I said that that was the first good to great dub in the franchise in English*. The early 2010s is where they really came into their own as a dubbing company.

*For FUNi themselves to have produced, forgot to add that.

I don't know if it's a reference to TFS as it was mentioned in the original series.



They basically made this line his only defining character trait (I know it's a parody) but people seem to forget it was in the actual show (not aimed at you because I've talk to fans in real life and they all attribute creepy popo to TFS *oddly enough, this very moment*)

[GhostEmperorX]

Well, TFS, I think, had a little bit of an impact. By the time FUNi got the license to Kai & started dubbing it, DBZA had been running for 2-3 years &, despite being a parody, presented the original material as-is from the Japanese "Son Goku," "Son Gohan," "Tenshinhan,"

Something on this, some of their translations were based on Chinese pronunciations of the same character. Like “Ten” is “Tian” in Chinese and “Chaozu” is “Jiǎozi” in Chinese. And the English spellings of names like those were meant to be a reflection of the Chinese pronunciations in a way people could understand.