Could a "Dragon Ball: Next Generation" show work?

[ABED]

Never seen a single frame of Digimon. When I think of a movie every now and then, I'm thinking more along the lines of movies that push the story forward, not just the kind of movies DB used to do where it didn't affect anything in the ongoing story.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

Buu saga was Dragon Ball: Next Generation until the part where Goku and Vegeta come back to life.

See, that's the problem though. It really wasn't. Not in any meaningful way. The Buu Arc was like if five episodes into TNG, Spock and Kirk had just shown up and taken over the show from there. And maybe (especially considering how bad season 1 TNG was) the situation called for it. But if you're going to try something like a Next Generation story you need to commit to it which Dragon Ball never has. It always got cold feet.

And now that I think about it, that's probably what I consider the most convincing argument against a Next Gen Dragon Ball. Nobody at the helm would be willing to go all in on the idea.

[ABED]

Buu saga was Dragon Ball: Next Generation until the part where Goku and Vegeta come back to life.

See, that's the problem though. It really wasn't. Not in any meaningful way. The Buu Arc was like if five episodes into TNG, Spock and Kirk had just shown up and taken over the show from there. And maybe (especially considering how bad season 1 TNG was) the situation called for it. But if you're going to try something like a Next Generation story you need to commit to it which Dragon Ball never has. It always got cold feet.

And now that I think about it, that's probably what I consider the most convincing argument against a Next Gen Dragon Ball. Nobody at the helm would be willing to go all in on the idea.

Considering how long it took to get Goku into the Buu arc in any meaningful way, it's not as like 5 episodes in. He doesn't begin fighting Vegeta until nearly 30 episodes in DBZ or 20 episodes into Kai's Buu arc.

[10gigtriforce]

Never seen a single frame of Digimon. When I think of a movie every now and then, I'm thinking more along the lines of movies that push the story forward, not just the kind of movies DB used to do where it didn't affect anything in the ongoing story.

Ah ok. But yeah basically this is the current digimon approach: 1-2 times a year they put out a movie, that covers part of an arc and moves the story along. The equivalent of 4 or 5 episodes of an arc, but given proper time and budget to work with, released on the big screen for max money/hype, then a home release. but each movie is a canon continuation of season 1-2 of digimon

[MasenkoHA]

Buu saga was Dragon Ball: Next Generation until the part where Goku and Vegeta come back to life.

See, that's the problem though. It really wasn't. Not in any meaningful way. The Buu Arc was like if five episodes into TNG, Spock and Kirk had just shown up and taken over the show from there. And maybe (especially considering how bad season 1 TNG was) the situation called for it. But if you're going to try something like a Next Generation story you need to commit to it which Dragon Ball never has. It always got cold feet.

And now that I think about it, that's probably what I consider the most convincing argument against a Next Gen Dragon Ball. Nobody at the helm would be willing to go all in on the idea.

The Boo arc starts off with a focus on Gohan's high school adventures. Gohan still feels like the main character in the tournament portion. The series only briefly dives back to giving Goku focus with the Majin Vegeta thing and showcasing of Super Saiyan 3. Heavy focus is given on "the wacky hi-jinks of Goten and Trunks" between the junior tournament and the whole Gotenks things dominating the early part of the Super Boo portion. It's really not until Goku comes back with the potara earrings that it stops feeling like Dragon Ball:The Next Generation and has Goku resume his role as main character. So really only about a third of the Boo arc

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

The Boo arc starts off with a focus on Gohan's high school adventures. Gohan still feels like the main character in the tournament portion. The series only briefly dives back to giving Goku focus with the Majin Vegeta thing and showcasing of Super Saiyan 3. Heavy focus is given on "the wacky hi-jinks of Goten and Trunks" between the junior tournament and the whole Gotenks things dominating the early part of the Super Boo portion. It's really not until Goku comes back with the potara earrings that it stops feeling like Dragon Ball:The Next Generation and has Goku resume his role as main character. So really only about a third of the Boo arc

Considering how long it took to get Goku into the Buu arc in any meaningful way, it's not as like 5 episodes in. He doesn't begin fighting Vegeta until nearly 30 episodes in DBZ or 20 episodes into Kai's Buu arc.

Ok, so let's say TNG brings in Spock and Kirk for season two, makes their story the driving force for the next season, and relegates Picard and Riker to background characters. That would still be kneecapping the premise of the new show and that's roughly what the Buu Arc did.

[ABED]

To which I would say they had a year to prove their worth. Now, it was a different time in the 80s/90s, but nowdays, you only have so long to grab my attention. I have never given a damn about Star Trek beyond that first reboot movie, so I don't care. I'm not waiting around on the off chance something will get better. Goten, Trunks, and Gohan were given ample time to prove their worth as leads, and showed they aren't interesting in that role.

[miguelnuva1]

To which I would say they had a year to prove their worth. Now, it was a different time in the 80s/90s, but nowdays, you only have so long to grab my attention. I have never given a damn about Star Trek beyond that first reboot movie, so I don't care. I'm not waiting around on the off chance something will get better. Goten, Trunks, and Gohan were given ample time to prove their worth as leads, and showed they aren't interesting in that role.

Not really. Goku and Vegeta never get the focus taken off them.

Gohan we are told has gotten weaker. Goku and Vegeta later brush him and Dabra off as insignificant.

The first big beyond Gohan and Cell fight is Goku vs Vegeta as Gohan couldn't use his shiny new ssj form.

Vegeta is the one used to show how strong Buu is and we get that charcter moment with his sacrifice and then we get Ssj3 from Goku.

Trunks and Goten never get time to show how either react from losing a parent. Gohan sits around to get his power up, once Goten and Trunks master fusion and get ssj3 they play around with the form.

Goku also shows up while Gohan is just sitting around.

Goku's presence is felt throughout the Buu arc from the time he shows up to the time he takes back over. Gotenks and Gohan are no more than what Piccolo was in the android arc.

[ABED]

To which I would say they had a year to prove their worth. Now, it was a different time in the 80s/90s, but nowdays, you only have so long to grab my attention. I have never given a damn about Star Trek beyond that first reboot movie, so I don't care. I'm not waiting around on the off chance something will get better. Goten, Trunks, and Gohan were given ample time to prove their worth as leads, and showed they aren't interesting in that role.

Not really. Goku and Vegeta never get the focus taken off them.

Gohan we are told has gotten weaker. Goku and Vegeta later brush him and Dabra off as insignificant.

The first big beyond Gohan and Cell fight is Goku vs Vegeta as Gohan couldn't use his shiny new ssj form.

Vegeta is the one used to show how strong Buu is and we get that charcter moment with his sacrifice and then we get Ssj3 from Goku.

Trunks and Goten never get time to show how either react from losing a parent. Gohan sits around to get his power up, once Goten and Trunks master fusion and get ssj3 they play around with the form.

Goku also shows up while Gohan is just sitting around.

Goku's presence is felt throughout the Buu arc from the time he shows up to the time he takes back over. Gotenks and Gohan are no more than what Piccolo was in the android arc.

Yes really. Vegeta is gone from the story from the time he gives his life until he returns, which is a LONG stretch. Goku isn't really the focus in the middle part of the story. He mostly comments on what's going on. He's not active in the story for a long time after he returns to Other World.

[Hellspawn28]

I don't see it ever working because it seems like the series lives or dies without the original cast. I feel like that is one of the many reasons why they never did a GT sequel with Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. because most people would be turned off by it.

[Mad Swami]

A GT transition could absolutely work, but one without Goku I don't know. Goku by all means is Dragon Ball, he represents everything the series is, he is integral. However it could be done, not long though. If they did a show about Uub leading a new world against new threats inheriting the mantel of savior it would be shorter than usual I feel. Maybe like 3 or 4 movies could work but not a show.

I really love this topic as I love the idea of Uub taking up the mantel. It is part of the reason I really wanted to do my GT fanfic

[MasenkoHA]

The problem with Oob is he’s bland as shit. He couldn’t lead a series to save his life.

[Mad Swami]

The problem with Oob is he’s bland as shit. He couldn’t lead a series to save his life.

not yet, but all we have of him is end of Z angry child and GT who did like nothing with him after Baby arc and didn't care to give him a personality. But look at Broly, his character used to be an abomination, now he's great!

[MasenkoHA]

TBut look at Broly, his character used to be an abomination, now he's great!

I would argue Broli isn’t great now. He just no longer has a hilariously moronic backstory and got a good movie instead of a mediocre one and two piles of crap.

[Mad Swami]

TBut look at Broly, his character used to be an abomination, now he's great!

I would argue Broli isn’t great now. He just no longer has a hilariously moronic backstory and got a good movie instead of a mediocre one and two piles of crap.

I would say Broly is great now. He is a well done Tarzan type that has managed to capture the interest of audiences becoming a new fan favorite in a film with the three most famous DB characters of all time. He adds a great and much needed layer to the story of Dragon Ball Super. I don't think he's my favorite but he is really well done

[funrush]

The problem with Oob is he’s bland as shit. He couldn’t lead a series to save his life.

But if we're ignoring GT, he's not bland as shit. He's a timid kid who wants to earn money for his village, and that's a decent enough basis for a character. You can develop him as it goes on. Toriyama made it work for Gohan.

A non-Goku focused show totally could work, there's so many different characters in the DB Universe that you could just try a bunch out, do some good character writing for them, and if it doesn't work just swap em out.

Here's my pitch: 5 years after EoZ, you start off having Pan as a smarter Kid Goku. Excited to go on adventures and fight and all that shit, but she's Gohan's kid so she's at least got a sense of social awareness most of the time. Uub is the prodigy, he's strong as fuck and is still being trained by Goku. You get a clever writer to expand on his character more, maybe explore stuff about the village he came from and how that shapes his worldview. Goku's there but he's in the background, he steps in when shit gets out of hand but it's usually more interesting to see Uub, Pan, and Goten/Trunks take care of it. Goku stays out of these fights since he's a literal god and the enemies that would trouble his teenage students aren't really worth his time. Goten and Trunks are part of the main cast too, as like the older sibling characters, they're more focused on life than fighting but they're unlucky so they wind up getting involved in Pan/Uub's adventures a lot.

The cosmic stuff from DBS can be important too, they can do an arc where Goku/Vegeta go to U6 to train those Saiyans and they bring Uub/Pan with them and Uub/Pan can team up with the U6 Saiyans to fight some kinda baddie.

The stakes are lower since nobody they're fighting is as strong as Goku, but there really aren't any stakes in Dragon Ball anyway since there's wishgranting orbs to bring everyone back an infinite number of times. The stakes are on whether or not Pan and Uub can overcome their obstacles and grow as fighters/people.

TBut look at Broly, his character used to be an abomination, now he's great!

I would argue Broli isn’t great now. He just no longer has a hilariously moronic backstory and got a good movie instead of a mediocre one and two piles of crap.

DBS Broly is a better written character than most of the ones in this franchise. He's got an interesting backstory, and a whole future story arc set up and everything.

[miguelnuva1]

Gohan could have lead the show had they maybe him s hybrid of Future Gohan, Kid Gohan and Teen Gohan.

A Gohan trying to be Goku and having regret for what with down with Cell and having to realize he isn't Goku would have been better than I sat around for 7 years and forgot how to fight.

Gohan doesn't learn from his mistakes.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

Gohan could have lead the show had they maybe him s hybrid of Future Gohan, Kid Gohan and Teen Gohan.

A Gohan trying to be Goku and having regret for what with down with Cell and having to realize he isn't Goku would have been better than I sat around for 7 years and forgot how to fight.

Gohan doesn't learn from his mistakes.

Kinda buzzed so sorry if my thoughts don't make too much sense but, reading this comment has me wondering if the problem wasn't with modeling Gohan after Goku. Goku is a reactive protagonist, not a proactive one. Things happen to Goku and he rolls with the punches. Everything from a best friend to a wife to a martial arts master just sorta fall into Goku's lap. This fits both because the martial arts genre is very cynical about trying to influence the world and also because Goku is really simple.

Gohan isn't really all that simple. He has a very messy relationship with martial arts and his own psychology doesn't lend itself well to fighting. Gohan is also very intelligent, which means he's much more able to appreciate nuances in situations. All that points to a more proactive character, one who doesn't just wait for things to just happen to him. The ending of the CVell Arc seems to point in that direction too with Gohan finally stepping out of the shadow of his father. But then the first thing we see of Buu Gohan is him going to school because his mother said to. So he hasn't actually changed from that five year old who's carted around by everyone else towards the next plot point. And that becomes Gohan for the whole arc. He shys away from his new "friends," he's isolated himself so much he doesn't even notice that his mother has been training his brother, he hasn't sparred or spoken to the other characters in years (Goten seems to have more contact with the outside world than Gohan).

It would be one thing if Gohan himself had decided he wanted to see more of the world and then asked to be enrolled in a school. Might even have worked as an excuse to uproot the Son family and move them into the city. (Get some of that Beverly Hillbillies comedy going.) That would have added a level of subtext to Gohan trying to mask his powers around other children his age. But instead we got Gohan as discount Goku getting into hit or miss hijinks.

[ABED]

DBS Broly is a better written character than most of the ones in this franchise. He's got an interesting backstory, and a whole future story arc set up and everything.

I don't agree on any of those counts. What was interesting about his backstory? Why does backstory matter that much? And what future story arc has been set up with him?

Kinda buzzed so sorry if my thoughts don't make too much sense but, reading this comment has me wondering if the problem wasn't with modeling Gohan after Goku. Goku is a reactive protagonist, not a proactive one. Things happen to Goku and he rolls with the punches. Everything from a best friend to a wife to a martial arts master just sorta fall into Goku's lap. This fits both because the martial arts genre is very cynical about trying to influence the world and also because Goku is really simple.

If you think being proactive means being a superhero, then sure. However, that's never been his primary goal. His drive is to get stronger. In that way, he takes every step to achieve that goal. He meets people and friends along the way.

All that points to a more proactive character, one who doesn't just wait for things to just happen to him. The ending of the Cell Arc seems to point in that direction too with Gohan finally stepping out of the shadow of his father.

And this isn't remotely true. The last thing I'd ever call Gohan is proactive. He does wait for thing to happen to him and he doesn't take any steps in the direction of being proactive, even at the end of the Cell arc, nor does he take any steps to get out of his father's shadow. The first time since his adventures on Namek is he actually proactive is when he re-applies himself to martial arts before the Tournament of Power.

[WittyUsername]

I don’t really get the argument that Broly’s new backstory is particularly better than the old one. Both backstories still boil down to his father wanting revenge on Vegeta’s family. If anything, I’d argue that his new backstory is more cliched.

Anyway, I don’t know if could agree with the idea that Oob is too boring to work as a protagonist. We don’t see much of him in the manga, but he has some decent characterization and I think there could be potential in seeing Goku in a mentor role.