Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

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ronaldnorth_03
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Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by ronaldnorth_03 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:21 am

I have organized myself with a project involving the entire Dragon Ball franchise being launched. Due to its large fan base I decided to include english dub. What is the most accurate dubbing for each product in the series, I don't care about inconsistencies in the cast, just the best and most faithful dub.


Dragon Ball: ???
   Movie 1: ???
   Movie 2: ???
   Movie 3: ???
   Movie 4: ???

Dragon Ball Z: ???
    TV Special 1: ???
    TV Special 2: ???
     Movie 1: ???
     Movie 2: ???
     Movie 3: ???
     Movie 4: ???
     Movie 5: ???
     Movie 6: ???
     Movie 7: ???
     Movie 8: ???
     Movie 9: ???
     Movie 10: ???
     Movie 11: ???
     Movie 12: ???
     Movie 13: ???

Battle of Gods: ???
Resurrection F: ???

Dragon Ball Super: ???
      Broly: ???


If there is no dub true to the original audio, you can hide it.

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by TheOverlyMadHatter » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:57 am

Dragon Ball: FUNimation Uncut or Blue Water (they're both half-faithful and half-inaccurate in different ways)
Movie 1: 2010 Funimation Re-Dub
Movie 2: FUNimation (Remaster with JP Audio) or AB Groupe. Your choice. FUNi almost completely changed the script, but AB Groupe has terrible direction, and bases their scripts on the French version, which itself is based on the Japanese script with a lot of ad-libbing from the French actors, which leads to eyebrow-raising inaccuracies at times.

Movie 4: Uncut Funimation

Dragon Ball Z: Uncut Funimation (Remaster with JP Audio). Far from accurate, but Westwood has edits, shies away from death in the scripts, and lacks the Japanese soundtrack. Still, if that doesn't bother you, it's mostly the same script if prefer the cast and score.
TV Special 1: FUNimation (Remaster with JP Audio) or AB Groupe. See DB movie 2.
TV Special 2: See Special 1.
Movie 1: Pioneer
Movie 2: Pioneer
Movie 3: Pioneer

Movie 12: FUNimation
Movie 13: FUNimation

Battle of Gods: FUNimation
Resurrection F: FUNimation

Dragon Ball Super: FUNimation or Bang Zoom
Broly: FUNimation

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:22 am

Would it be controversial to list Kai and TFC as potential options for Z?

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by TheOverlyMadHatter » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:08 am

Sorry for the double-post but I can't edit my original post anymore. I just remembered Z Movies 10 and 11 have a recently-resurfaced Philippines-based english dub by Solar Entertainment. If accuracy's what you care about most, from what I've seen, they're translated more literally than FUNimation's localization. Sound quality is ass though.

Movies 5 and 6 were also dubbed in the Philippines by Creative Corps, but they seemed to take more liberties with the translation.

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by OmegaRockman » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:33 am

TheOverlyMadHatter wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:08 am
Sorry for the double-post but I can't edit my original post anymore. I just remembered Z Movies 10 and 11 have a recently-resurfaced Philippines-based english dub by Solar Entertainment. If accuracy's what you care about most, from what I've seen, they're translated more literally than FUNimation's localization. Sound quality is ass though.
While it's cool that those dubs surfaced (and I'm interested in checking them out), I think it's worth pointing out that Funimation's Movie 11 is actually reasonably accurate. The worst part is Mr. Satan is referred to by the dub name. Should be fine if you watch with the Kikuchi score.

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:42 am

OmegaRockman wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:33 am
. The worst part is Mr. Satan is referred to by the dub name. Should be fine if you watch with the Kikuchi score.
I thought he was only Hercule in edited releases? Wasn’t he Mr.Satan in all uncut versions?

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by 10gigtriforce » Thu Mar 05, 2020 10:59 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:42 am
OmegaRockman wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:33 am
. The worst part is Mr. Satan is referred to by the dub name. Should be fine if you watch with the Kikuchi score.
I thought he was only Hercule in edited releases? Wasn’t he Mr.Satan in all uncut versions?
Hercule statan actually. Though thats the only time I can recall they use *just* hercule. Usually mr satan, but theres a few where its like 'heres your chap hercule satan!"

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:39 pm

ronaldnorth_03 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:21 am
I have organized myself with a project involving the entire Dragon Ball franchise being launched. Due to its large fan base I decided to include english dub. What is the most accurate dubbing for each product in the series, I don't care about inconsistencies in the cast, just the best and most faithful dub.
Ah!
I've done much research on this with my friend Danfun; we've in-depth compared most of the OG DB series, and made much observational work on the rest of the material that has multiple dubs, so I can assure you these are thoroughly checked...
  • Dragon Ball: BLT 1-13 + Funimation 14-28 + Blue Water 29+. Or, just Blue Water 1-153 if you want one dub. Or BLT 1-13 + Blue Water 14+ if you're okay changing, but would rather only change once.
    You will find some inconsistency in that BLT was much more heavy-handed in censoring Roshi's perverse antics, and of course, this way, you're switching casts TWICE, but for the best viewing experience, this is the way to do it. BLT's scripts were, most certainly, the most accurate of the four Dragon Ball dubs. Harmony Gold got a lot of dialogue closer to the original intention, but various major changes (4Kids-style stuff) make it unusable (to be clear, I am ignoring the name changes, for the sake of argument). BLT's scripts are partially adapted from Harmony Gold's, but they reverse all the major changes. However, the dialogue was also generally re-adapted, making individual pieces of dialogue less faithful. Still, a better overall option. Funimation's dub re-adapted BLT's dialogue with no effort to make it more accurate; the only area of improvement is that Roshi's perverse antics were reinstated, though this was still heavily toned down wherever possible, and ultimately this is one of the biggest flaws you'll encounter in all DB's dubs -- they're all censored, Funimation's always leaned more towards producing a TV dub, but any cases where the only way to censor something was to cut a visual, the uncut dub would not censor the cut section. So, whatever you do, you're watching a censored dub, and Funi's doesn't really make any improvements on BLT's dub; in fact, almost all the script changes are more along the line of their changes to the Pioneer scripts for Z movies 1-3, Funi did their typical "Punching up" of scripts: Adding jokes, etc. without actually making any effort to keep the dialogue reminiscent of what was originally said. Blue Water comes in and ends up basically working off of Funi's scripts, but doing to those scripts what Funi should've done to BLT's scripts; they rework a lot of dialogue to sound more natural, and reference accurate translations to make numerous corrections, and by the time of the mid Red Ribbon arc, they were sometimes even rewriting entire scripts from the ground up, ditching all the inaccuracies of Funimation's dub. For bonus points, they also fixed various naming issues (Goku's pole is the Nyoi'Bo, his cloud is the Kinto'Un, he gives his name as Son Goku in the first episode, the Crane Hermit's name isn't Master Shen, and thus Shen's name is left alone, whereas Funimation had to change Shen's name to Hero, various major dub errors like Piccolo saying he fought people all over the galaxy were completely ripped out and swapped for better dialogue in Blue Water's dub...). The only flaw is that the first 28 episodes have some scripting weirdness; it feels like they scripted the show in a rush, and failed to properly adapt a lot of the dialogue. They kept a lot of Funi's bullshit, and ended up putting some new flavours of bullshit in a few places. If you want to just watch one dub, these changes aren't enough to detract much, but if you're okay to switch dubs any number of times, then it's probably best to jump into BW's dub at episode 29. Sadly, BLT only dubbed the first 13, so your only option for 14-28 is Funi in-house, so the optimal route if you don't mind switching casts a lot is BLT 1-13, Funi 14-28, and then BW 29+.
    • Movie 1: Harmony Gold. Though, BLT is better for consistency.
      The Harmony Gold dub of this movie is fine. BLT's is also fine, but the script is slightly less accurate, and the score was replaced. Funi's in-house dub is a fucking shambles; basically, they took the BLT script and removed all dialogue that wasn't happening at the same time as Japanese dialogue was happening in the original. You'd think this would make the script more accurate, but they didn't pay attention to what the original Japanese scripts contained, nor did they pay attention to whether their new scripts made any conversational sense when you arbitrarily remove parts of it. Dialogue adapted from the original Japanese is removed, points of conversation that are built on or built up to are removed... It's a shambles, don't bother. Go with Harmony Gold's or BLT's.
    • Movie 2: The only dubs of this are Funimation's one from 1998, which is exactly what you'd expect from something they did BEFORE "Season 3" of Z. It's even worse than their "Season 3" Z dub in almost every way (the only reason I say "almost" is because there isn't quite so much added bullshit jokes, and the original score was kept), and the sound quality is unbelievably bad. The fact they thought this was okay to put on DVD alongside a new 2009 dub of movie 1, as well as the fact they screwed up movie 1 so bad shows how much Funi do not give a shit about the pre-Raditz material. You should not watch this dub, it's shit. Sadly, the only other option is the (missing) Big Green dub, which -- if the other Big Green dubs are anything to go by -- will be an utterly excellent piece of gag dubbing, but utterly useless for serious viewing. Just skip this one if you can't watch it in Japanese.
    • Movie 3: Harmony Gold dubbed this one, but unlike their work on DB movie 1, it's a bit shitty; they tried to adapt the script to skip over DB movie 2, but it ultimately just ends up being a total mess. So, that leaves a Funi dub and a (missing) Big Green dub. Neither is a good viewing option. Again, just skip this one if you can't watch it in Japanese.
    • Movie 4: The only dub of this one is a Funimation one. But the good news is it's not totally awful, so if you must watch dubbed, you can get away with watching this one that way.
  • Dragon Ball Z: You should either watch Funimation's Kai dub, or go with Saban Z 1-53, OG Funi in-house 54-107 (preferably the Ocean TV edit, or failing that the standard TV edit, but the uncut version will do), and Westwood Z 108+. But if you really, truly, only care about scripting accuracy, and must watch Z, not Kai, then swap Saban Z 1-53 out for "Ultimate Uncut" Z 1-67.
    If you want to watch accurately, Kai is the only way to go. The Z dubs are just not accurate.
    If you absolutely must watch Z, then you should know that Ultimate Uncut is just the Saban version with some popular-to-point-out dub-induced plot holes removed, but all else left as a mess (the only redeeming feature is it includes material Saban cut out, but the dubbing is really shitty, both in terms of accuracy, and in terms of other factors like the acting), and there are weird dialogue errors from lazy adaptation (The Saban dub had an exchange to the tune of Bulma saying "Let's hop to, guys!", then Roshi says "Hop where?" Ultimate Uncut changes this to Bulma saying "Let's go, guys!" and Roshi says "Hop where?" Admittedly, I've not observed other dialogue errors, but I haven't closely inspected the Ultimate Uncut dub, because it's shit), and it doesn't gel with any of the dubs of 68+ (54+ in the original TV edit). And if you watch Ultimate Uncut 1-67, then when you switch to the original in-house "episode 54", you have to skip to about 8 minutes into the episode, because Saban left 53 off half-way through episode 67, so episode 54 on home video first has the last 8 minute of 67, then does the entirety of episode 68 (making that episode over 30 minutes long), and on TV, episodes 54-58 make clever edits to slowly move into lining up with uncut.
    Saban's dub has some parts that stand out as weird and/or wrong, but ultimately it is the far better product, the far more professional product, and clearly the thing that original "episode 54" onwards was following on from. It's just the better experience... But if you insist on watching the shitty Ultimate Uncut dub (and make no mistake, it is a shitty piece of dubbing work), you can watch that instead.
    Z 68-122, AKA 54-107, should be watched via the original in-house dub, not the shitty "remastered" dub. There's no accuracy difference, but the "remastered" dub is just a worse experience. I would suggest watching one of the TV edits if you want some consistency, but if accuracy is all you care about, watch the uncut home video version (found on the original DVD singles). For 108+, you can watch either the rest of Funi's uncut dub, or you can watch the Westwood dub. They use the same scripts (though Westwood is based off the TV edit; only difference you'll notice is your hells and damns are toned down, "kill" becomes "destroy" etc., and Mr Satan is called Hercule. I don't think name changes matter much, though, the actual dialogue is what's important for accuracy), but Westwood is a better-performed dub, and the replacement score -- as well as the overall style of production -- is a much closer adaptation of the tone of the original Japanese version.
    But, I must stress this: If you care about accuracy, you should just watch Kai instead. Z does not have an accurate dub, not even remotely. If you must watch Z dubbed, you should just go for the better viewing experience and watch Saban 1-53 + OG Funi TV edit 54-107 + Westwood 108+.
    • TV Special 1: Mugen026 fandub.
      There are two official dubs of this: In-house Funi and Big Green. Naturally, Big Green is not an option for serious viewing. This is actually Funi's absolute WORST in-house dubbing work for many, many reasons, among which is that the scripting is so poor, rumours circulate that they didn't have a complete script for this, mostly just guessing what's happening based on what they see on screen. And it's a completely believable rumour. Completely unwatchable, really. If you must watch this special dubbed, seek out the Mugen026 fandub. Recording is clearly not professional, but it goes above and beyond what anyone could expect of a fandub, and ends up actually being a solid way to watch.
    • TV Special 2: Only options are Funi and Big Green. Again, Big Green isn't an option for serious viewing. Funi's dub is a bit shit, but it's just about watchable.
    • Movie 1: The Pioneer/Ocean dub.
      Your options are Pioneer's dub with Ocean, Funi's in-house dub, and the Big Green dub. Big Green's isn't for serious viewing, and Funi's takes the Pioneer scripts, "punches up" the dialogue, applies some minor censorship (IIRC), and has worse voice acting. Pioneer's dub is the closest any Dragon Ball dub has come to perfection. Watch Pioneer's dub.
    • Movie 2: Same as above.
    • Movie 3: The Pioneer/Ocean dub.
      Your options are Pioneer/Ocean, Funi in-house, Big Green, and Saban. Ignoring Big Green, Saban's dub is exactly what you'd expect, it was produced alongside their dub of episodes 27-53 of the Z series. Pioneer's dub completely discarded that script, and even recast a few of the characters, and produced an excellent piece of dubbing. Funimatoin's dub took the Saban script, "punched it up", and along the way, made the script even worse, and they had worse acting than Pioneer's. You should watch Pioneer's dub.
    • Movie 4: Only options are Big Green and Funi; Big Green's is not for serious viewing, and Funi's is shit. Skip this if you don't want to watch in Japanese.
    • Movie 5: Ditto.
    • Movie 6: Ditto.
    • Movie 7: Ditto.
    • Movie 8: Funimation's dub is actually okay for this one. Big Green's is not for serious viewing.
    • Movie 9: Same as 8.
    • Movie 10: The only dubs of this are Funimation's and a shitty one made in the Philippines. Skip this one if you don't want to watch in Japanese.
    • Movie 11: Funimation's is actually okay. Another Philippines dub exists for this one, and once again, it's shit.
    • Movie 12: Funimation's is okay, and also the only option. Watchable.
    • Movie 13: Ditto
  • Dragon Ball GT: Blue Water's dub.
    Funimation's is unwatchable garbage, Blue Water's is a fine piece of dubbing with really solid scripting (comparable to the Pioneer scripts).
    • TV Special: Only options are Funi and (missing) Big Green. Funi's is shit; skip it if you can't watch in Japanese.
  • Battle of Gods: Only dub is Funi's, which is perfectly fine.
  • Resurrection F: Ditto.
  • Dragon Ball Super: Bang Zoom 1-27, Funimation 28+. Funimation all the way if you don't like switching dubs. Or, alternatively, just watch Funi's BOG and ResF movies, then jump into Funi Super at episode 28.
    Bang Zoom's is a TV edit, but on the whole, it is more accurate than Funi's; Funi's dub is utterly fucking LOADED with all kinds of added bullshit, they outright deliberately have their actors ad-lib stuff in the studio if they think it's funny... It's not a good scene. The base scripts are OKAY. Loaded with some real nonsense, but essentially get the point across. But they continually add bullshit on top of that, so... It's a serviceable, watchable dub, but any alternative is good. Sadly, Bang Zoom's (which was very accurate, despite some minor censorship here and there) only lasted 27 episodes.
    • Broly: Funi's is the only dub, and it's fine.
Apologies if there are any errors here. I wrote a lot, and don't have time to proofread it. Feel free to call me out on anything I'm wrong about.
Also you forgot GT, so I added it.
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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Mar 05, 2020 2:56 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:42 am
OmegaRockman wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:33 am
. The worst part is Mr. Satan is referred to by the dub name. Should be fine if you watch with the Kikuchi score.
I thought he was only Hercule in edited releases? Wasn’t he Mr.Satan in all uncut versions?
He’s usually referred to as Mr. Satan in the uncut releases, but if I recall, there have been a few occasions where “Hercule” seemed to slip through.

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by ronaldnorth_03 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:17 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:39 pm
ronaldnorth_03 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 12:21 am
I have organized myself with a project involving the entire Dragon Ball franchise being launched. Due to its large fan base I decided to include english dub. What is the most accurate dubbing for each product in the series, I don't care about inconsistencies in the cast, just the best and most faithful dub.
Ah!
I've done much research on this with my friend Danfun; we've in-depth compared most of the OG DB series, and made much observational work on the rest of the material that has multiple dubs, so I can assure you these are thoroughly checked...
  • Dragon Ball: BLT 1-13 + Funimation 14-28 + Blue Water 29+. Or, just Blue Water 1-153 if you want one dub. Or BLT 1-13 + Blue Water 14+ if you're okay changing, but would rather only change once.
    You will find some inconsistency in that BLT was much more heavy-handed in censoring Roshi's perverse antics, and of course, this way, you're switching casts TWICE, but for the best viewing experience, this is the way to do it. BLT's scripts were, most certainly, the most accurate of the four Dragon Ball dubs. Harmony Gold got a lot of dialogue closer to the original intention, but various major changes (4Kids-style stuff) make it unusable (to be clear, I am ignoring the name changes, for the sake of argument). BLT's scripts are partially adapted from Harmony Gold's, but they reverse all the major changes. However, the dialogue was also generally re-adapted, making individual pieces of dialogue less faithful. Still, a better overall option. Funimation's dub re-adapted BLT's dialogue with no effort to make it more accurate; the only area of improvement is that Roshi's perverse antics were reinstated, though this was still heavily toned down wherever possible, and ultimately this is one of the biggest flaws you'll encounter in all DB's dubs -- they're all censored, Funimation's always leaned more towards producing a TV dub, but any cases where the only way to censor something was to cut a visual, the uncut dub would not censor the cut section. So, whatever you do, you're watching a censored dub, and Funi's doesn't really make any improvements on BLT's dub; in fact, almost all the script changes are more along the line of their changes to the Pioneer scripts for Z movies 1-3, Funi did their typical "Punching up" of scripts: Adding jokes, etc. without actually making any effort to keep the dialogue reminiscent of what was originally said. Blue Water comes in and ends up basically working off of Funi's scripts, but doing to those scripts what Funi should've done to BLT's scripts; they rework a lot of dialogue to sound more natural, and reference accurate translations to make numerous corrections, and by the time of the mid Red Ribbon arc, they were sometimes even rewriting entire scripts from the ground up, ditching all the inaccuracies of Funimation's dub. For bonus points, they also fixed various naming issues (Goku's pole is the Nyoi'Bo, his cloud is the Kinto'Un, he gives his name as Son Goku in the first episode, the Crane Hermit's name isn't Master Shen, and thus Shen's name is left alone, whereas Funimation had to change Shen's name to Hero, various major dub errors like Piccolo saying he fought people all over the galaxy were completely ripped out and swapped for better dialogue in Blue Water's dub...). The only flaw is that the first 28 episodes have some scripting weirdness; it feels like they scripted the show in a rush, and failed to properly adapt a lot of the dialogue. They kept a lot of Funi's bullshit, and ended up putting some new flavours of bullshit in a few places. If you want to just watch one dub, these changes aren't enough to detract much, but if you're okay to switch dubs any number of times, then it's probably best to jump into BW's dub at episode 29. Sadly, BLT only dubbed the first 13, so your only option for 14-28 is Funi in-house, so the optimal route if you don't mind switching casts a lot is BLT 1-13, Funi 14-28, and then BW 29+.
    • Movie 1: Harmony Gold. Though, BLT is better for consistency.
      The Harmony Gold dub of this movie is fine. BLT's is also fine, but the script is slightly less accurate, and the score was replaced. Funi's in-house dub is a fucking shambles; basically, they took the BLT script and removed all dialogue that wasn't happening at the same time as Japanese dialogue was happening in the original. You'd think this would make the script more accurate, but they didn't pay attention to what the original Japanese scripts contained, nor did they pay attention to whether their new scripts made any conversational sense when you arbitrarily remove parts of it. Dialogue adapted from the original Japanese is removed, points of conversation that are built on or built up to are removed... It's a shambles, don't bother. Go with Harmony Gold's or BLT's.
    • Movie 2: The only dubs of this are Funimation's one from 1998, which is exactly what you'd expect from something they did BEFORE "Season 3" of Z. It's even worse than their "Season 3" Z dub in almost every way (the only reason I say "almost" is because there isn't quite so much added bullshit jokes, and the original score was kept), and the sound quality is unbelievably bad. The fact they thought this was okay to put on DVD alongside a new 2009 dub of movie 1, as well as the fact they screwed up movie 1 so bad shows how much Funi do not give a shit about the pre-Raditz material. You should not watch this dub, it's shit. Sadly, the only other option is the (missing) Big Green dub, which -- if the other Big Green dubs are anything to go by -- will be an utterly excellent piece of gag dubbing, but utterly useless for serious viewing. Just skip this one if you can't watch it in Japanese.
    • Movie 3: Harmony Gold dubbed this one, but unlike their work on DB movie 1, it's a bit shitty; they tried to adapt the script to skip over DB movie 2, but it ultimately just ends up being a total mess. So, that leaves a Funi dub and a (missing) Big Green dub. Neither is a good viewing option. Again, just skip this one if you can't watch it in Japanese.
    • Movie 4: The only dub of this one is a Funimation one. But the good news is it's not totally awful, so if you must watch dubbed, you can get away with watching this one that way.
  • Dragon Ball Z: You should either watch Funimation's Kai dub, or go with Saban Z 1-53, OG Funi in-house 54-107 (preferably the Ocean TV edit, or failing that the standard TV edit, but the uncut version will do), and Westwood Z 108+. But if you really, truly, only care about scripting accuracy, and must watch Z, not Kai, then swap Saban Z 1-53 out for "Ultimate Uncut" Z 1-67.
    If you want to watch accurately, Kai is the only way to go. The Z dubs are just not accurate.
    If you absolutely must watch Z, then you should know that Ultimate Uncut is just the Saban version with some popular-to-point-out dub-induced plot holes removed, but all else left as a mess (the only redeeming feature is it includes material Saban cut out, but the dubbing is really shitty, both in terms of accuracy, and in terms of other factors like the acting), and there are weird dialogue errors from lazy adaptation (The Saban dub had an exchange to the tune of Bulma saying "Let's hop to, guys!", then Roshi says "Hop where?" Ultimate Uncut changes this to Bulma saying "Let's go, guys!" and Roshi says "Hop where?" Admittedly, I've not observed other dialogue errors, but I haven't closely inspected the Ultimate Uncut dub, because it's shit), and it doesn't gel with any of the dubs of 68+ (54+ in the original TV edit). And if you watch Ultimate Uncut 1-67, then when you switch to the original in-house "episode 54", you have to skip to about 8 minutes into the episode, because Saban left 53 off half-way through episode 67, so episode 54 on home video first has the last 8 minute of 67, then does the entirety of episode 68 (making that episode over 30 minutes long), and on TV, episodes 54-58 make clever edits to slowly move into lining up with uncut.
    Saban's dub has some parts that stand out as weird and/or wrong, but ultimately it is the far better product, the far more professional product, and clearly the thing that original "episode 54" onwards was following on from. It's just the better experience... But if you insist on watching the shitty Ultimate Uncut dub (and make no mistake, it is a shitty piece of dubbing work), you can watch that instead.
    Z 68-122, AKA 54-107, should be watched via the original in-house dub, not the shitty "remastered" dub. There's no accuracy difference, but the "remastered" dub is just a worse experience. I would suggest watching one of the TV edits if you want some consistency, but if accuracy is all you care about, watch the uncut home video version (found on the original DVD singles). For 108+, you can watch either the rest of Funi's uncut dub, or you can watch the Westwood dub. They use the same scripts (though Westwood is based off the TV edit; only difference you'll notice is your hells and damns are toned down, "kill" becomes "destroy" etc., and Mr Satan is called Hercule. I don't think name changes matter much, though, the actual dialogue is what's important for accuracy), but Westwood is a better-performed dub, and the replacement score -- as well as the overall style of production -- is a much closer adaptation of the tone of the original Japanese version.
    But, I must stress this: If you care about accuracy, you should just watch Kai instead. Z does not have an accurate dub, not even remotely. If you must watch Z dubbed, you should just go for the better viewing experience and watch Saban 1-53 + OG Funi TV edit 54-107 + Westwood 108+.
    • TV Special 1: Mugen026 fandub.
      There are two official dubs of this: In-house Funi and Big Green. Naturally, Big Green is not an option for serious viewing. This is actually Funi's absolute WORST in-house dubbing work for many, many reasons, among which is that the scripting is so poor, rumours circulate that they didn't have a complete script for this, mostly just guessing what's happening based on what they see on screen. And it's a completely believable rumour. Completely unwatchable, really. If you must watch this special dubbed, seek out the Mugen026 fandub. Recording is clearly not professional, but it goes above and beyond what anyone could expect of a fandub, and ends up actually being a solid way to watch.
    • TV Special 2: Only options are Funi and Big Green. Again, Big Green isn't an option for serious viewing. Funi's dub is a bit shit, but it's just about watchable.
    • Movie 1: The Pioneer/Ocean dub.
      Your options are Pioneer's dub with Ocean, Funi's in-house dub, and the Big Green dub. Big Green's isn't for serious viewing, and Funi's takes the Pioneer scripts, "punches up" the dialogue, applies some minor censorship (IIRC), and has worse voice acting. Pioneer's dub is the closest any Dragon Ball dub has come to perfection. Watch Pioneer's dub.
    • Movie 2: Same as above.
    • Movie 3: The Pioneer/Ocean dub.
      Your options are Pioneer/Ocean, Funi in-house, Big Green, and Saban. Ignoring Big Green, Saban's dub is exactly what you'd expect, it was produced alongside their dub of episodes 27-53 of the Z series. Pioneer's dub completely discarded that script, and even recast a few of the characters, and produced an excellent piece of dubbing. Funimatoin's dub took the Saban script, "punched it up", and along the way, made the script even worse, and they had worse acting than Pioneer's. You should watch Pioneer's dub.
    • Movie 4: Only options are Big Green and Funi; Big Green's is not for serious viewing, and Funi's is shit. Skip this if you don't want to watch in Japanese.
    • Movie 5: Ditto.
    • Movie 6: Ditto.
    • Movie 7: Ditto.
    • Movie 8: Funimation's dub is actually okay for this one. Big Green's is not for serious viewing.
    • Movie 9: Same as 8.
    • Movie 10: The only dubs of this are Funimation's and a shitty one made in the Philippines. Skip this one if you don't want to watch in Japanese.
    • Movie 11: Funimation's is actually okay. Another Philippines dub exists for this one, and once again, it's shit.
    • Movie 12: Funimation's is okay, and also the only option. Watchable.
    • Movie 13: Ditto
  • Dragon Ball GT: Blue Water's dub.
    Funimation's is unwatchable garbage, Blue Water's is a fine piece of dubbing with really solid scripting (comparable to the Pioneer scripts).
    • TV Special: Only options are Funi and (missing) Big Green. Funi's is shit; skip it if you can't watch in Japanese.
  • Battle of Gods: Only dub is Funi's, which is perfectly fine.
  • Resurrection F: Ditto.
  • Dragon Ball Super: Bang Zoom 1-27, Funimation 28+. Funimation all the way if you don't like switching dubs. Or, alternatively, just watch Funi's BOG and ResF movies, then jump into Funi Super at episode 28.
    Bang Zoom's is a TV edit, but on the whole, it is more accurate than Funi's; Funi's dub is utterly fucking LOADED with all kinds of added bullshit, they outright deliberately have their actors ad-lib stuff in the studio if they think it's funny... It's not a good scene. The base scripts are OKAY. Loaded with some real nonsense, but essentially get the point across. But they continually add bullshit on top of that, so... It's a serviceable, watchable dub, but any alternative is good. Sadly, Bang Zoom's (which was very accurate, despite some minor censorship here and there) only lasted 27 episodes.
    • Broly: Funi's is the only dub, and it's fine.
Apologies if there are any errors here. I wrote a lot, and don't have time to proofread it. Feel free to call me out on anything I'm wrong about.
Also you forgot GT, so I added it.
Thanks!

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by Valerius Dover » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:21 pm

I'll go ahead and include what I believe to be the most faithful option taking into account footage, dialog, and music. Choices may vary depending on which element you think is more important. Voice cast preferences will not be taken into account here.

Dragon Ball: Funimation or Blue Water
-Funi's is uncut, but BW is somewhat more faithful script-wise. Both are acceptable. Do note that neither dub retains all the insert songs, with only 4 kept in Funi's. Funi's is the only one of those two to retain the original opening and ending. BW also has the music sound higher-pitched than other versions.
Dragon Ball Movie 1: Funimation
-The only uncut version, but shares mostly the same acceptable scripts as the older dubs.
Dragon Ball Movie 2: Funimation
-The only uncut version. Not particularly faithful script.
Dragon Ball Movie 3: Funimation
-The only uncut version. Script deviates but no story changes.
Dragon Ball Movie 4: Funimation
-Accurate
Dragon Ball Z: Funimation Z (JP music) or Funimation Kai
-Z has the advantage of being uncut and having the original score, but Kai has the much more faithful script. Do note that even the Z dub misses out on the insert songs, though. And only the DBox version retains the original openings.
Dragon Ball Z Special 1: Funimation (JP music)
-I'm gonna be honest, this one is totally different from the original, even going as far as making major changes to the story. But the only other option is the almost incomprehensible Big Green dub.
Dragon Ball Z Special 2: Funimation (JP music)
-This one deviates somewhat, but there aren't any notable story changes this time. You miss out on the original opening, though.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 1: Ocean
-Accurate.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 2: Ocean
-Accurate.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 3: DVD Ocean dub
-Accurate.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 4: Funimation (JP music)
-Pretty off, even changing the villain's backstory, but it's either this or Big Green.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 5: Funimation (JP music)
-A bit better, no story changes. You do miss out on the original opening, though.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 6: Funimation (JP music)
-Accurate.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 7: Funimation (JP music)
-Kind of a gag dub, to be honest, but Big Green is the only alternative.
Dragon Ball Z: Movie 8: Funimation (JP music)
-Accurate.
Dragon Ball Z: Movie 9: Funimation (JP music)
-It's fine.
Dragon Ball Z: Movie 10: Funimation (JP music)
-It's fine. Only choice.
Dragon Ball Z: Movie 11: Funimation (JP music)
-Accurate.
Dragon Ball Z: Movie 12: Funimation (JP music)
-It's fine. Except you miss out on the original opening. Only choice, though.
Dragon Ball Z: Movie 13: Funimation (JP music)
-Mostly fine. Only choice.
Dragon Ball Z Movie 14: Funimation
-Accurate
Dragon Ball Z Movie 15: Funimation
-Accurate
Dragon Ball GT: Blue Water or Funimation (JP music)
-BW has the more accurate script and is almost uncut. You only miss out on 20 seconds of nude Goku and the final flashback montage. You do, however, miss out on Endings 2-4 and get an instrumental version of Ending 1. Ending 2 is also missing as an insert song. The Funimation dub has all of those, but has a less accurate, but still acceptable, script overall.
Dragon Ball GT Special: Funimation (JP music)
-Acceptable. Only other option is Big Green.
Dragon Ball Super: Funimation
-Accurate and only uncut version.
Dragon Ball Super Movie: Funimation
-Accurate

Regarding the ones that didn't make the list.
The Big Green dubs are machine translated scripts that barely make sense.
Harmony Gold dubs have the same issues as the later dubs for both the series and movies, and the former is also way too short lived (5 Episodes) to be a viable option.
The BLT dub is also too short lived (13 Episodes), has a replacement score, and has all the same problems as the later dubs. Same goes for the movie.
Ocean Z dub has all the same problems as Funi Z, in addition to having a replacement score, being heavily censored even to the point of death being a taboo topic, and missing a huge chunk of the series, namely Episodes 68-122.
Funi Z dubs for Movies 1-2 are a close second script wise behind the Ocean dubs, but lose points for being stuck with instrumental versions of the insert songs and not retaining the original opening.
TV Ocean and Funi Z dubs of Movie 3 are simply less accurate options.
Bang Zoom dub of Super is too short lived (27 Episodes), and is censored, although it does have an unrelated, but still accurate, script.
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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:48 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:21 pm
I'll go ahead and include what I believe to be the most faithful option taking into account footage, dialog, and music. Choices may vary depending on which element you think is more important. Voice cast preferences will not be taken into account here.

Dragon Ball: Funimation or Blue Water
-Funi's is uncut, but BW is somewhat more faithful script-wise. Both are acceptable. Do note that neither dub retains all the insert songs, with only 4 kept in Funi's. Funi's is the only one of those two to retain the original opening and ending. BW also has the music sound higher-pitched than other versions.
Apparently Blue Water used their stock music for all inserts songs even the ones retained by Funimation.

Neither dub is all that great but Funimation’s dub is “uncut” (I mean uncut but not really uncensored) and featured some insert songs and for obvious reasons is easier to find in decent quality. Funimation is just the better option by default (in my opinion of course).
Dragon Ball Movie 2: Funimation
-The only uncut version. Not particularly faithful script.
It’s also close to Big Green tier level of dubbing.

Regarding the ones that didn't make the list.
The Big Green dubs are machine translated scripts that barely make sense.
Weren’t they straight translated from the French dub or something?
Harmony Gold dubs have the same issues as the later dubs for both the series and movies, and the former is also way too short lived (5 Episodes) to be a viable option.
They’re also way more censored and inaccurate than the later Funimation dubs.
Ocean Z dub has all the same problems as Funi Z, in addition to having a replacement score, being heavily censored even to the point of death being a taboo topic, and missing a huge chunk of the series, namely Episodes 68-122.

Episode 68-122 for the Ocean Z dub was the in-house Funi dub of those episodes. It’s all suppose to be one dub. The first 53 episodes of the Saban/Funi/Ocean dub and then episode 54-108 (68-122) for the in-house Funi dub then it depends on which country you were from for when it switches back to the Ocean cast or not.

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:30 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:48 pm
Apparently Blue Water used their stock music for all inserts songs even the ones retained by Funimation.
No, I think Blue Water included one or two (at the very least, they included the segment of Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 19; have not checked the rest), and left some silent, and replaced others.

Funi included about four out of the ~15 insert songs, and left only silence (and additional dialogue) in the place of the missing ones. Blue Water filled the silence left by the missing insert songs in their M&E tracks with library music in most cases.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:48 pm
Neither dub is all that great but Funimation’s dub is “uncut” (I mean uncut but not really uncensored) and featured some insert songs and for obvious reasons is easier to find in decent quality. Funimation is just the better option by default (in my opinion of course).
The problem is, "Uncut" carries an assumption that there's not censorship. Funi's is still heavily censored, and Blue Water gains a lot in script fixing. And not much is lost in the editing of BW's dub.

Ultimately, you're going to have censorship whichever version you watch. My view is: If you're going to have to deal with censorship either way, you'd better at least go for the one that's more accurate, has less of the bullshit Funi load their scripts up with, and is better-dubbed on the whole.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:48 pm
It’s also close to Big Green tier level of dubbing.
True. Though at least Big Green is entertaining. Funi's DB movie 2 is just unwatchable garbage.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:48 pm
Regarding the ones that didn't make the list.
The Big Green dubs are machine translated scripts that barely make sense.
Weren’t they straight translated from the French dub or something?
Dunno about machine translated, but directly and poorly translated from French, yes.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 6:48 pm
Harmony Gold dubs have the same issues as the later dubs for both the series and movies, and the former is also way too short lived (5 Episodes) to be a viable option.
They’re also way more censored and inaccurate than the later Funimation dubs.
Harmony Gold's DB movie 1 is only a little more censored than Funi's, and is significantly more accurate.
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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:23 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:30 pm
No, I think Blue Water included one or two (at the very least, they included the segment of Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 19; have not checked the rest), and left some silent, and replaced others.

Funi included about four out of the ~15 insert songs, and left only silence (and additional dialogue) in the place of the missing ones. Blue Water filled the silence left by the missing insert songs in their M&E tracks with library music in most cases.
Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 19 was instrumental only so I don’t know if that counts.

For both AB Group and Funimation it seems Toei just didn’t give them masters that included all insert songs.

I will say Funimation not replacing silence with stock music (especially given what they come up with) is a plus. It’s actually worse what they did to the songs they did have. With a Burning Passion Defeat the Red Ribbon Army is damn near impossible to hear because they have the narrator blare over most of it and the relaxing vibe of Blue Travelers is killed by Stephanie Nadolny’s Goku killing the mood with non-stop talking

(Their one use of Dragon Ball Densetsu and Mezase Tenkaichi got out okay)
. Funi's DB movie 2 is just unwatchable garbage.
True. The fact that it was what Funimation deemed good enough they don’t need the Ocean cast makes me hate ot even more.
Harmony Gold's DB movie 1 is only a little more censored than Funi's, and is significantly more accurate.
The movies I think were done better. The tv episodes were not and censored things Saban probably would have let pass (Goku cooking the wolf)

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by Valerius Dover » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:31 pm

BW dub of DB left in the instrumental in Episode 19 and the instrumental bit in Episode 78. That's it. Only 3 songs were replaced by Anitunes tracks, the rest are silent or had their scenes cut altogether. More than likely, the ones that are silent were never on the masters they received to begin with.
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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:00 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:23 pm
Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 19 was instrumental only so I don’t know if that counts.
So Battle Point Unlimited doesn't count either? :P

It's an insert song, it counts.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:23 pm
For both AB Group and Funimation it seems Toei just didn’t give them masters that included all insert songs.
That seems to be it.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:23 pm
I will say Funimation not replacing silence with stock music (especially given what they come up with) is a plus. It’s actually worse what they did to the songs they did have. With a Burning Passion Defeat the Red Ribbon Army is damn near impossible to hear because they have the narrator blare over most of it and the relaxing vibe of Blue Travelers is killed by Stephanie Nadolny’s Goku killing the mood with non-stop talking
You do realise Funi handled the insert songs they kept and didn't keep exactly the same, right? They have the characters incessantly babble on over them. The only difference is that a handful of the songs, Funi seem to have somehow got ahold of them and added them, but playing quietly over the endless babble. I don't see how that's any better than if they'd just left them out entirely...
For the ones that weren't present, the endless babble is their way of dealing with a lack of sound... And it's a really shitty way to deal with it. Probably the worst example of this is Unmei No Hi, where the emotion of the scene is destroyed by Gohan endlessly babbling on and on, and there's not even a song going on. It's just him saying shitty, repetitive, added dialogue.

Blue Water's way of handling insert songs was to accurately render the scene, but if the insert song was unavailable, and a lot of silence would be left, they put SOMETHING there so you're not just sitting there in silence, and naturally they have their library tracks, so...

From a fanedit point of view, it's annoying, because it means you can re-insert the songs, but from actually looking at the product, it's clearly better to me to have something there, in my view. So I prefer how Blue Water did it.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:23 pm
Harmony Gold's DB movie 1 is only a little more censored than Funi's, and is significantly more accurate.
The movies I think were done better. The tv episodes were not and censored things Saban probably would have let pass (Goku cooking the wolf)
Yeah.
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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:06 pm

Generally, when it comes to faithful dubs on FUNi's side i view Kai (moreso 1.0 than TFC) as by far their best work of the entire span of time the cast has been involved. Questionable holdover castings aside, it is pretty much my definitive way of watching Z dubbed due to the latter's ranging from meh/just ok in the Buu arc to downright god awful i.e. the "Season 3" Freeza run through roughly the Androids episodes. In terms of the other series, for DB due to it's dub being so so and GT's basically unwatchable i stick to watching the Japanese versions respectively. In regards to the movies, with DB minus Path to Power i pretty much go Japanese there too. DBZ for movies 1-3 is obviously the Ocean/Pioneer dubs given how faithful and highly regarded they are, and for the rest with exception of movie 8,12,13 and Battle of Gods through Super: Broly i also watch subbed and lastly with Super ditto there as well for while i can watch the FUNi dub and not have too many issues with the script changes compared to Z, it's also primarily Japanese for the most part. As for the specials, both of Z's are subbed for me because of how bad the dubs are and GT as well.

That's effectively an encapsulated summery in regards to faithful dubs on my end.

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:02 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:00 pm

So Battle Point Unlimited doesn't count either? :P

It's an insert song, it counts.
It doesn't count in this context because the only reason Blue Water kept Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 19 because it was instrumental only.
You do realise Funi handled the insert songs they kept and didn't keep exactly the same, right? They have the characters incessantly babble on over them. The only difference is that a handful of the songs, Funi seem to have somehow got ahold of them and added them, but playing quietly over the endless babble. I don't see how that's any better than if they'd just left them out entirely...
For the ones that weren't present, the endless babble is their way of dealing with a lack of sound... And it's a really shitty way to deal with it.
But not really? Burning Passion, defeat the Red Ribbon being the most obvious victim here as you can't hear the song other than a few moments in between the narration taking a break and Blue Traveler the main problem is that Nadolny's Goku non-stop commentary clashes with the song but you can still hear the song (and really the problem here it's Nadolny more than anything had it been Henderson or even the Blue Water actress instead it would have worked better). The two times they didn't get Mesaze Tenkaichi (Goku vs Chun and Goku vs Krillin) there really isn't that much talking.

The instance of them keeping Dragon Ball Densetsu there's more narration from Vollmer Bulma than necessary (Read: there's any at all) but it's not horrible or anything. The one time they got Mesaze Tenkaichi there' s a bit of narration and some grunts and what not but mostly they just leave the song alone to play against the montage. There was definitely instances of them adding a bunch of non-stop talking to fill in the silence but it just kind of varied. I'm not giving Blue Water points for replacing the songs they almost definitely had with their stock library.

Probably the worst example of this is Unmei No Hi, where the emotion of the scene is destroyed by Gohan endlessly babbling on and on, and there's not even a song going on. It's just him saying shitty, repetitive, added dialogue.
Well I consider anything with Funi Gohan talking a huge L. In this case wasn't the scene like that when the Funimation dub of Z was being made with the non-stop replacement music in mind? With Dragon Ball they were dubbing with the Japanese music (or lack thereof) in mind with that scene in Z it was just non-stop talking played against non-stop music that retroactively became non-stop talking against silence. I'm almost kind of glad Funimation didn't get Unmei No Hi for the Japanese music track of that scene since it would have ruined it. The scene is awful in the Funi dub no matter what.
but from actually looking at the product, it's clearly better to me to have something there, in my view. So I prefer how Blue Water did it.
And I prefer Funimation keeping the songs they had instead of replacing them with their own music. I just wish they didn't screw up 2 of the 4.

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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Mar 06, 2020 11:49 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:02 pm
It doesn't count in this context because the only reason Blue Water kept Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 19 because it was instrumental only.
[...]
I'm not giving Blue Water points for replacing the songs they almost definitely had with their stock library.
I'd like to know where you're getting this info.

I've never seen any info to suggest any reason why either dub kept Mezase in episode 19, nor any info to suggest Blue Water either had the masters, or had a license, to use most of the insert songs.
So, either you have info I don't, or you're wildly speculating and passing it off as facts.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:02 pm
And I prefer Funimation keeping the songs they had instead of replacing them with their own music. I just wish they didn't screw up 2 of the 4.
Almost no dubs out there, in any language, kept the insert songs, so it's commonly accepted that most of the M&E masters Toei sent out were simply missing the insert songs. And there's the further issue that there may be licensing problems. So, we're pretty lucky that Funi even got the four that they did... But honestly, I'm not sure getting 2 out of ~15 right is that good a record, particularly when Blue Water at least had something play in basically all of these sections, and let the characters fall somewhat silent, so it's actually a decent rendering of the original scene, even though the music is different.

So, to me, it's always seemed that Blue Water did the better job; if you can't have the insert songs, at least put something there that isn't incessant additional dialogue, and if it can't be made to work, then they cut the scenes down. Naturally, a couple of times, Funi did actually get to include the songs, but they had incessant dialogue over two of the four, so...
To me, Funi did the worse job in that particular area. Not only did they just leave silence with incessant additional dialogue over where most of these went, completely destroying any sense of atmosphere, Funi also screwed up two of the four they did manage to get...
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Re: Which dub is more faithful to the original audio?

Post by Valerius Dover » Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:40 pm

Insert song sequences in Blue Water Episodes 29, 30, 35, 43, 48, 87, and 95 are all silent. The sequences in Episodes 65 and 76 were cut, as was most of the scene in Episode 78, removing all traces of vocals. Song replacements were used in Episodes 28, 33, and 86. A strange, faint hissing noise can be heard in the aforementioned silent scenes.

The French dub kept insert songs only in those same three episodes, while the rest were removed at some point before Westwood even got them. The cut song sequences match up with the French version as well. The decision to replace the vocal songs was definitely deliberate. It's likely the staff never knew there were originally songs played in the silent scenes.
Funi received their audio masters from Mexico, as far as I know, and if I'm not mistaken, the same songs are kept in that version, and only those. They simply left what they received as is, likely never knowing there were songs there originally.

Another interesting note. That choir peace from Movie 2 played in Episode 81 is missing in the Funi dub but is present in the Blue Water dub. It is present in Movie 2 itself, though. It is missing in the Saiyan Arc in Z, but can be heard in the Frieza arc. There was really no rhyme or reason to the M&E tracks they received, it seems.
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