What do you want with Broly?

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ABED
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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:58 pm

Going in depth on mental issues is not very DB.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:05 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:58 pm
Going in depth on mental issues is not very DB.
I mean Vegeta's mental state is explored pretty in depth

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:49 pm

Some may want Broly to talk, I just want him to die. Pair up old and frail Lemo with young and feisty Chelye instead of the usual cool buff dude/pretty waifu pairings, we are so used to.
Skar wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:49 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 15, 2020 11:48 pm
The point was that you outright admitted that you will for a fact becoming back in the future to be upset is the issue. Besides, I'm a goofy grown woman on the same forum dedicated to the same children's cartoon as you are--I'm not exactly casting myself as An Authority On the Arts™ here.
I remember someone who used to post on here named JacobYBM. I think it was a few years ago. Are you two related or both inspired by the same series when deciding on a username? I was just curious!
Same person, just with a different gender identity now.
I joined, when she was still Yuugi'sBlackMagician(time goes way too fast :cry: )

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:23 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:05 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:58 pm
Going in depth on mental issues is not very DB.
I mean Vegeta's mental state is explored pretty in depth
A lot of time is spent on his insecurity towards Goku, but I wouldn't call that deep.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Skar » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:02 pm

dbgtFO wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:49 pm
Same person, just with a different gender identity now.
I joined, when she was still Yuugi'sBlackMagician(time goes way too fast :cry: )
I see. I didn't know it was possible to change your username on here but maybe the mods made an exception? Life is short so live the way you feel comfortable :thumbup:

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:41 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:23 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:05 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 2:58 pm
Going in depth on mental issues is not very DB.
I mean Vegeta's mental state is explored pretty in depth
A lot of time is spent on his insecurity towards Goku, but I wouldn't call that deep.
There was a lot more than that

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:45 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:41 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:23 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:05 pm
I mean Vegeta's mental state is explored pretty in depth
A lot of time is spent on his insecurity towards Goku, but I wouldn't call that deep.
There was a lot more than that
Not saying you're wrong, but such as?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:28 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:45 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:41 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 4:23 pm
A lot of time is spent on his insecurity towards Goku, but I wouldn't call that deep.
There was a lot more than that
Not saying you're wrong, but such as?
I would say in the Frieza saga they cover his issues with the death of his planet really interesting with him repressing emotion subtly showing the damage of hiding emotion. I get your point however but that's where i'm coming from. I don't think they need to transition into an overly serious tone that is un befitting but instead try and balance it

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:09 pm

Skar wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:49 am
I remember someone who used to post on here named *****YBM. I think it was a few years ago. Are you two related or both inspired by the same series when deciding on a username? I was just curious!
Sorry for the late reply, I just now noticed this post. That's my deadname, what we refer to as our names before transitioning. In the in the Summer of 2018 I realized that I was a woman and got my username changed February 2019 to reflect that. We're the same person, just gayer and girlier.
Skar wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:02 pm
dbgtFO wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:49 pm
Same person, just with a different gender identity now.
I joined, when she was still Yuugi'sBlackMagician(time goes way too fast :cry: )
I see. I didn't know it was possible to change your username on here but maybe the mods made an exception? Life is short so live the way you feel comfortable :thumbup:
Yeah, I basically begged Mike and Heath for a name change. I don't want anyone knowing my deadname or referring to me by it because it's very painful for me, as it is for a lot of transgender people. I really regret every using my deadname as a username in the first place but I never figured I would reach absolute mental collapse and stop caring about what my parents think and just be whoever I wanted to be. :lol:
She/Her | Cloud Strife is so fuckin' hot oh my gosh

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:20 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:28 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:45 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:41 pm
There was a lot more than that
Not saying you're wrong, but such as?
I would say in the Frieza saga they cover his issues with the death of his planet really interesting with him repressing emotion subtly showing the damage of hiding emotion. I get your point however but that's where i'm coming from. I don't think they need to transition into an overly serious tone that is un befitting but instead try and balance it
That's not depth. That's fairly surface level. He doesn't actually care about his planet. He didn't care about the Saiyans. He didn't hesitate to murder Nappa or try to murder Goku. For a guy that's supposedly so affected by the death of his people, he shows such little actual concern for the few that are left. The death of his planet didn't cause him to repress his emotions.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:35 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:20 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:28 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:45 pm
Not saying you're wrong, but such as?
I would say in the Frieza saga they cover his issues with the death of his planet really interesting with him repressing emotion subtly showing the damage of hiding emotion. I get your point however but that's where i'm coming from. I don't think they need to transition into an overly serious tone that is un befitting but instead try and balance it
That's not depth. That's fairly surface level. He doesn't actually care about his planet. He didn't care about the Saiyans. He didn't hesitate to murder Nappa or try to murder Goku. For a guy that's supposedly so affected by the death of his people, he shows such little actual concern for the few that are left. The death of his planet didn't cause him to repress his emotions.
Well no, he absolutely cared about his people. The Broly movie ruins that but still he used to. In the Frieza saga he cries about the death of his planet and how Frieza had destroyed his life. It's called character flaws. Him killing Nappa is one thing and his care for his people is another. That's the depth aspect, his thirst for strength has blinded his care for his people

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:49 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:35 pm
Well no, he absolutely cared about his people. The Broly movie ruins that but still he used to. In the Frieza saga he cries about the death of his planet and how Frieza had destroyed his life. It's called character flaws. Him killing Nappa is one thing and his care for his people is another.
The Namek speech didn't sound like Vegeta lamenting on the destruction of his people. To me Vegeta came off as someone at the end of their rope, angry over having been humiliated, grasping at the last straws he could. Vegeta emphasizes that Vegeta was Goku's homeworld, the birthplace of his family, and that Freeza destroyed all of that in an effort to trigger Goku's anger. He, himself, doesn't seem bothered about all that destruction except that it's another reminder of how small he is when compared to Freeza.
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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:52 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:49 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:35 pm
Well no, he absolutely cared about his people. The Broly movie ruins that but still he used to. In the Frieza saga he cries about the death of his planet and how Frieza had destroyed his life. It's called character flaws. Him killing Nappa is one thing and his care for his people is another.
The Namek speech didn't sound like Vegeta lamenting on the destruction of his people. To me Vegeta came off as someone at the end of their rope, angry over having been humiliated, grasping at the last straws he could. Vegeta emphasizes that Vegeta was Goku's homeworld, the birthplace of his family, and that Freeza destroyed all of that in an effort to trigger Goku's anger. He, himself, doesn't seem bothered about all that destruction except that it's another reminder of how small he is when compared to Freeza.
He is reaching out to one of the last of his kind. He knows his time is up, and he didn't avenge his planet. Goku couldn't care about planet Vegeta, it isn't his home. Vegeta wants a Saiyan to beat Frieza because it's important to him. Planet Vegeta didn't anger Goku, it was what the destruction did to Vegeta

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:22 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:52 pm
Him killing Nappa is one thing and his care for his people is another.
It's really not. He doesn't show empathy for ANY of the living members of his race for years. Raditz? Don't bring him back, he's pathetically weak. Nappa? You die because you're useless. Goku? You die for standing in my way and believing you have any chance of defeating me. Gohan? See Kakarotto. For a man who supposedly cares so much about his race, he cares so little for the living members of his race. You say his thirst for blood blinds his love of his race, but where does he actually SHOW his love of his race? All I see is a lot of lipservice from him.

What does Vegeta say that says "He destroyed my life?" How? Vegeta was a member of a murderous race and working for Freeza allowed him to continue that. Freeza treated him like royalty until he rebelled.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:34 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:22 pm
What does Vegeta say that says "He destroyed my life?" How? Vegeta was a member of a murderous race and working for Freeza allowed him to continue that. Freeza treated him like royalty until he rebelled.
Might be the anime influencing perception. The anime added at least one flashback sequence where Freeza brushes off Vegeta and dismisses his accomplishments.
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:52 pm
He is reaching out to one of the last of his kind. He knows his time is up, and he didn't avenge his planet. Goku couldn't care about planet Vegeta, it isn't his home. Vegeta wants a Saiyan to beat Frieza because it's important to him. Planet Vegeta didn't anger Goku, it was what the destruction did to Vegeta
As I read the scene it was more about Vegeta wanting the satisfaction of knowing a saiyan- any saiyan- dealt the death blow against Freeza. It's an act of vindictiveness, not one of righteous fury on behalf of his fallen race
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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:50 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:34 pm


As I read the scene it was more about Vegeta wanting the satisfaction of knowing a saiyan- any saiyan- dealt the death blow against Freeza. It's an act of vindictiveness, not one of righteous fury on behalf of his fallen race
I disagree, he wouldn't really cry about that. BTW I read the manga and in his speech he clearly illustrates Frieza is a monster.

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:53 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:22 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 8:52 pm
Him killing Nappa is one thing and his care for his people is another.
It's really not. He doesn't show empathy for ANY of the living members of his race for years. Raditz? Don't bring him back, he's pathetically weak. Nappa? You die because you're useless. Goku? You die for standing in my way and believing you have any chance of defeating me. Gohan? See Kakarotto. For a man who supposedly cares so much about his race, he cares so little for the living members of his race. You say his thirst for blood blinds his love of his race, but where does he actually SHOW his love of his race? All I see is a lot of lipservice from him.

What does Vegeta say that says "He destroyed my life?" How? Vegeta was a member of a murderous race and working for Freeza allowed him to continue that. Freeza treated him like royalty until he rebelled.
Vegeta clearly talks about how Frieza derailed his life, Vegeta cares about his race, it's where his pride comes from. Vegeta respects his heritage and held it to such a high standard to that anyone disgracing it were unfit to live

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:59 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:53 pm
Vegeta clearly talks about how Frieza derailed his life, Vegeta cares about his race, it's where his pride comes from. Vegeta respects his heritage and held it to such a high standard to that anyone disgracing it were unfit to live
How does he care? Where does he show he cares? His pride in his race comes from them being genetically predisposed to being talented martial artists. What does he say that implies or even flat out says how Freeza derailed his life? I don't recall that, nor is it factually true. Vegeta wasn't made worse by Freeza killing the Saiyans. He was treated as royalty. He doesn't hate Freeza for that. He hates Freeza because he's stronger than him and keeps him subservient. Vegeta wants to be king of the mountain.

Bottom line, I don't think Vegeta's psychology was treated in depth, nor do I think Broly's scars would be treated in depth. He has an anger issue. So what? Been there done that.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:04 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:59 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 9:53 pm
Vegeta clearly talks about how Frieza derailed his life, Vegeta cares about his race, it's where his pride comes from. Vegeta respects his heritage and held it to such a high standard to that anyone disgracing it were unfit to live
How does he care? Where does he show he cares? His pride in his race comes from them being genetically predisposed to being talented martial artists. What does he say that implies or even flat out says how Freeza derailed his life? I don't recall that, nor is it factually true. Vegeta wasn't made worse by Freeza killing the Saiyans. He was treated as royalty. He doesn't hate Freeza for that. He hates Freeza because he's stronger than him and keeps him subservient. Vegeta wants to be king of the mountain.
Vegeta clearly suffered mental scaring through working with Frieza. He wept for his people after time of him rejecting care about his people. That's apart of his long character arc

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Re: What do you want with Broly?

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:10 pm

Vegeta was a bastard before ever working for Freeza. Vegeta wept for himself because all his pride in his ability and no matter how high he climbed, he was outclassed in every way. Freeza toyed with him like he was nothing. For the first time in his life, he felt truly helpless. He wasn't weeping for his race. His character arc has NOTHING to do with that. It was all about letting go of his insecurity and need to be seen as better than everyone else, mostly Goku. He could finally admit someone was better. Then there's also the matter of him finally caring for someone other than himself.

This feels almost entirely like you are listening to the dub.

To bring this back to Broly. I don't see how much depth they can get from his sob story. It was almost comical.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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