What do you want with Broly?

[JulieYBM]

It takes next to no energy to just ignore the ending. I'd rather they do that so that we could see new ideas play out however they feel so inclined. Hell, even if they don't ignore the ending they can just have the older characters become younger again if they want. Dragon Ball's themes don't really touch up on some sort of The Wrath of Kahn-esque 'growing old' and 'death' themes.

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I'm just going to come out and say it, it's long past time to retcon and move past the EoZ epilogue. That ending was written with the intention of there being absolutely no new stories for the old cast after the Boo incident. There's no real need or reason to adhere too closely to it and that ending doesn't work anymore when the series is trying to transition from an isolated story made 30 years ago into a permanent pop culture mainstay like Star Wars or Western comic heroes.

You're not alone in thinking that. If nothing else EoZ requires a huge reframing. Goku has been fighting gods of destruction, angels, fallen gods, Broly, and whatever Jiren is supposed to be. Compared to that Uub is nothing special. We're going to need a very different explanation for why Goku wants to take on Uub as a pupil. Does Uub remind him of his childhood competing against Tenshinhan, Yamcha, Krillin, and Chiaotzu? Does Goku decide that he wants U7 to be stronger and that he needs to be an active player in that? Does he suddenly realize he's a 50 year old man with two children that don't actually resemble him much in temperment and so he decides to try to connect with this new kid?

[kemuri07]

I'm just going to come out and say it, it's long past time to retcon and move past the EoZ epilogue. That ending was written with the intention of there being absolutely no new stories for the old cast after the Boo incident. There's no real need or reason to adhere too closely to it and that ending doesn't work anymore when the series is trying to transition from an isolated story made 30 years ago into a permanent pop culture mainstay like Star Wars or Western comic heroes.

I think that's a lot harder sell because that epilogue is still a part of Z, so I don't think they're ever going to do that.

That, and, you never actually have to worry about ending the series because, technically speaking--it has an ending.

It's really not that hard to retcon something from a series written 30 years ago. Especially a series that hands out retcons left and right like Dragon Ball.

The only confusion you really have to deal with is a couple people realizing that the last 3-4 episodes of the old anime don't count anymore. It's not that big a thing to ask or comprehend. Especially in a world where people have been able to understand and accept that there have been 3 different Spider-Man continuities across 5 (7 if you count the Avengers standalones) films on the big screen since 2001.

But then that essentially makes Super not a real sequel to Z. Because EOZ is the canonical ending to Z. By admitting that epilogue actually never happened, you can easily view Super as a non-canonical sequel to Z. And for the sake of optics, it's probably important for Toei to maintain that Super is a continuation of Z as it lends more weight to the series if it is.

I'm not disagreeing that they should change, I'm just saying why they won't.

[Zeon_Grunt]

I think that's a lot harder sell because that epilogue is still a part of Z, so I don't think they're ever going to do that.

That, and, you never actually have to worry about ending the series because, technically speaking--it has an ending.

It's really not that hard to retcon something from a series written 30 years ago. Especially a series that hands out retcons left and right like Dragon Ball.

The only confusion you really have to deal with is a couple people realizing that the last 3-4 episodes of the old anime don't count anymore. It's not that big a thing to ask or comprehend. Especially in a world where people have been able to understand and accept that there have been 3 different Spider-Man continuities across 5 (7 if you count the Avengers standalones) films on the big screen since 2001.

But then that essentially makes Super not a real sequel to Z. Because EOZ is the canonical ending to Z. By admitting that epilogue actually never happened, you can easily view Super as a non-canonical sequel to Z. And for the sake of optics, it's probably important for Toei to maintain that Super is a continuation of Z as it lends more weight to the series if it is.

I'm not disagreeing that they should change, I'm just saying why they won't.

If you think the only thing holding Super back from being a "real sequel," is whether or not it contradicts or lines up with Toriyama's original idea of the epilogue, then Super already fails that test. The series, both the anime and manga, introduced retcons to the DB lore established in DBZ.

That aside, the ending's very premise has been changed from what it originally was. Back then, Goku and the gang split up after the Boo confrontation and haven't seen each other in 10 years when the tournament rolled around. On top of that, Goku was explicitly excited for Oob because the kid had the potential power as strong as Majin Boo, the then strongest foe Goku had ever faced.

As of DBS: Broly, it's been about 2-3 years since Boo and the gang is still regularly seeing one another and Goku has meet enemy after enemy both in and outside his universe that would make training with Oob pretty pointless and uneventful.

[Grimlock]

Back then, Goku and the gang split up after the Boo confrontation and haven't seen each other in 10 years when the tournament rolled around.

Actually, Goku don't see Bulma for five years.

As of DBS: Broly, it's been about 2-3 years since Boo

What makes you think Dragon Ball Super Broly takes place "2-3 years" after Buu?

[Psajdak]

I think this is the first time I see that panel from manga; I was always anime guy, anyway...

Two things...

First, Goku's outfit looks like it could actually be different colored from its EoZ anime version.

Second, Bulma looks way older compared to her DBS: Broly self.
Even in DBGT she looks kinda younger, IMO.

[Zeon_Grunt]

Back then, Goku and the gang split up after the Boo confrontation and haven't seen each other in 10 years when the tournament rolled around.

Actually, Goku don't see Bulma for five years.

As of DBS: Broly, it's been about 2-3 years since Boo

What makes you think Dragon Ball Super Broly takes place "2-3 years" after Buu?

The point still stands, enough time has passed since the end of Boo and the beginning of the Moro arc for the timeline to not line up right anymore. Previously Goku and Bulma hadn't seen each other since Age 779, but in Super they're still seeing each other as late as 780 (and that's not counting that whatever arc is going to come after Moro if they don't end up recovering the Oob tournament to better fit in the new continuity).

The constant months long time skips between arcs? The Boo arc ends in year 774, while the Battle of Gods arc takes place in 778, the Tournament of Power is in 780, and the 28th Budokai Tenkaichi (Oob's original introduction) in 784; at least according to the timelines found online and presented by the anime and official material.

[Skar]

But then that essentially makes Super not a real sequel to Z. Because EOZ is the canonical ending to Z. By admitting that epilogue actually never happened, you can easily view Super as a non-canonical sequel to Z. And for the sake of optics, it's probably important for Toei to maintain that Super is a continuation of Z as it lends more weight to the series if it is.

I'm not disagreeing that they should change, I'm just saying why they won't.

I agree. EoZ doesn't line up perfectly but there's no indication that it's going to retconned. I think fans forget that it was Toriyama who decided for DBS to be an interquel and always talks about EoZ like he doesn't plan for anything to come after. Uub has already been mentioned in DBS so there wouldn't be a point in retconning EoZ just to have Goku meet Uub somewhere else.

[Matches Malone]

I'm just going to come out and say it, it's long past time to retcon and move past the EoZ epilogue. That ending was written with the intention of there being absolutely no new stories for the old cast after the Boo incident.

They want to have their cake and eat it to. You can't have 7 stories (BOG-Moro) and counting in such a small time frame and also keep something that was written as if nothing happened. They could've gotten away with just BOG being set there, but RF and everything after should've been post EOZ. Apart from all the nostalgia holding back the franchise, you've got the time frame also doing that.

[ABED]

I'm just going to come out and say it, it's long past time to retcon and move past the EoZ epilogue. That ending was written with the intention of there being absolutely no new stories for the old cast after the Boo incident.

They want to have their cake and eat it to. You can't have 7 stories (BOG-Moro) and counting in such a small time frame and also keep something that was written as if nothing happened. They could've gotten away with just BOG being set there, but RF and everything after should've been post EOZ. Apart from all the nostalgia holding back the franchise, you've got the time frame also doing that.

Nostalgia, sure, but how is the time frame holding back DB?

[Zeon_Grunt]

They want to have their cake and eat it to. You can't have 7 stories (BOG-Moro) and counting in such a small time frame and also keep something that was written as if nothing happened. They could've gotten away with just BOG being set there, but RF and everything after should've been post EOZ. Apart from all the nostalgia holding back the franchise, you've got the time frame also doing that.

Especially if you don't want to make those stories take place back to back in quick succession. If they didn't keep adding months long intermissions between arcs, it wouldn't have been that bad to shove the first few arcs in the 5 years between Boo's defeat and Goku parting ways with Vegeta and Bulma before the Oob tournament.

Keep in mind that, when not accounting for off-screen training, the vast majority of Dragon Ball's stories only account for a few months of the characters lives. Like, the two fights with the Saiyans (Raditz and Nappa/Vegeta) took place over the course of 2 days with a year long gap between them and entire Android arc happened over the course of 2 weeks with a 10 day hiatus in the action (#19 and 20 showed up on May 12 and Cell was killed on May 26).

[Matches Malone]

How is the time frame holding back DB?

For starters, they can't kill off anyone who's alive in EOZ. They can't do anything drastic with the status quo that doesn't line up with EOZ. The tension levels will always be low because we know everyone and everything will be OK thanks to EOZ.

[Grimlock]

The point still stands, enough time has passed since the end of Boo and the beginning of the Moro arc for the timeline to not line up right anymore. Previously Goku and Bulma hadn't seen each other since Age 779, but in Super they're still seeing each other as late as 780 (and that's not counting that whatever arc is going to come after Moro if they don't end up recovering the Oob tournament to better fit in the new continuity).

And that still can be case. Goku's line still makes sense if we assume he rounded it up. Instead of full five years, it is actually four years and X months. We are going to have a problem with that line if they decide to cram yet another saga with a considerable timeskip, making it AGE 781.

The constant months long time skips between arcs? The Boo arc ends in year 774, while the Battle of Gods arc takes place in 778, the Tournament of Power is in 780, and the 28th Budokai Tenkaichi (Oob's original introduction) in 784; at least according to the timelines found online and presented by the anime and official material.

But if you ignore the official timeline and proceed to think Dragon Ball Super Broly takes place merely two years after Buu, you're gonna have much bigger problems created by you yourself.

And the "constant months timeskip" only works for Movie 15 > Universe 6 saga > Future Trunks saga, as they all take place in the same year. But don't forget there has to be a one-year timeskip between Universe 6 saga and the Universe Survival saga because the Super Dragon Balls takes one year to recharge.

[WittyUsername]

Doesn’t BoG take place four years after Majin Boo was defeated?

[Matches Malone]

Doesn’t BoG take place four years after Majin Boo was defeated?

The movie does, but the anime's arc takes place "some time" after, whatever that means.

[WittyUsername]

Doesn’t BoG take place four years after Majin Boo was defeated?

The movie does, but the anime's arc takes place "some time" after, whatever that means.

Even so, the four years timeframe was presumably Toriyama’s idea, and when you factor in all the stories that take place after it, it seems fair to say that he likely forgot about the “I haven’t seen you in five years” detail.

[Matches Malone]

Even so, the four years timeframe was presumably Toriyama’s idea, and when you factor in all the stories that take place after it, it seems fair to say that he likely forgot about the “I haven’t seen you in five years” detail.

My issue isn't really that line as much as someone like Marron going from the first picture to the second picture in 4 or so years.





How on earth does this make sense ? In 4 years she's going to go from being put in a baby's seat to being nearly as tall as her mother ?

[It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips]

I wonder if anyone at TOEI or Toriyama himself has been keeping up with how old these characters are supposed to be. Oh well. Simpsons rules it is.

[WittyUsername]

Even so, the four years timeframe was presumably Toriyama’s idea, and when you factor in all the stories that take place after it, it seems fair to say that he likely forgot about the “I haven’t seen you in five years” detail.

My issue isn't really that line as much as someone like Marron going from the first picture to the second picture in 4 or so years.





How on earth does this make sense ? In 4 years she's going to go from being put in a baby's seat to being nearly as tall as her mother ?

To a lesser extent, the same applies to Goten and Trunks. Those two are supposed to be in or approaching their teens at this point, but they still look younger than Gohan did when he fought Cell. It’s especially jarring for Trunks, since we saw what his future counterpart looked like as a 14 year old.

[Zeon_Grunt]

And that still can be case. Goku's line still makes sense if we assume he rounded it up. Instead of full five years, it is actually four years and X months. We are going to have a problem with that line if they decide to cram yet another saga with a considerable timeskip, making it AGE 781.

But if you ignore the official timeline and proceed to think Dragon Ball Super Broly takes place merely two years after Buu, you're gonna have much bigger problems created by you yourself.

And the "constant months timeskip" only works for Movie 15 > Universe 6 saga > Future Trunks saga, as they all take place in the same year. But don't forget there has to be a one-year timeskip between Universe 6 saga and the Universe Survival saga because the Super Dragon Balls takes one year to recharge.

If I said Broly took place only 2 years after Boo, my mistake. My point was more that it's been years since Boo and far too close to the Tournament for the series to continue on perpetually as is very obviously the plan at Shueisha and Toei.

So... 90% of Super's timeline? The only thing after the Future Trunks arc is the Tournament of Power and that took place in a day.

To a lesser extent, the same applies to Goten and Trunks. Those two are supposed to be in or approaching their teens at this point, but they still look younger than Gohan did when he fought Cell. It’s especially jarring for Trunks, since we saw what his future counterpart looked like as a 14 year old.

All of this is an issue with not retconning the original ending as well. They've kept the kids from properly aging and that's also drastically screwed with the timeline placement. You're right, it doesn't make a lick of sense for Marron, Goten, and Trunks to somehow spring forward to their teenage bodies in only 4 years. I guess you could explain Goten and Trunks with Goku's delayed aging, claiming it's a rare defect in Saiyans or something, but with Marron, it just can't work.