Dragon Ball/Z/GT home releases moving forward

[Rory]

I'm likely treading on thin ice here, so I'll say up front that I obviously don't want to start a discussion here of how to get your hands on any of the recently released broadcast audio, whether you should or shouldn't do this, or really any discussion about the broadcast audio in general. Please, if you can, refrain from asking for context regarding this issue. If you don't know, you don't know. Find out elsewhere, and come back.

What I want to hear people's opinions on, is if any Dragon Ball home video content is released moving forward, how are they going to address this glaring issue.
Moving forward, fans now have a means to access all of Dragon Ball's audio as it originally aired (some episodes with more exceptional quality than others). This isn't a small advantage, this is a biggie. Even if FUNimation were to release a level set 1.3, with the same production values as the previous sets, the first thing people will want to know, will be in regards to the audio.

Will FUNimation simpy ignore the issue? This was possible before, it was a very 'underground' issue, however it feels like the lid has been blown way off at this point, and since everything is now available (and so easily), I'm not sure they'll just be able to ignore it in the same way as they could before. Toei I'm almost certain will be ignoring this one, but whether they were ever going to release another set was up in the air regardless.

So what do you guys think. Will this have an effect on Dragon Ball moving forward? Can anything be done (i.e, official releases attempting to 'remaster' the audio to compensate)? If any sets are released, will this hit sales?

[Matches Malone]

If I remember correctly, Funimation wanted to use the audio in a previous release (whatever was available back then) but Toei refused to give them the OK. I could be wrong, but I think the reason is because Toei themselves don't own it and they may have been afraid of whoever giving it to Funimation going after everyone in court later on. I'm not the most knowledgeable about this issue, so I'm sure someone with a better understanding on it will explain things better.

[10gigtriforce]

FUNimation needs toei's ok to use it in releases sadly. but now that its all out there and not just coming from 1 guy toei may be more likey to use it or let FUNimation use it. ubisoft used torrent/piracy cracks in their games before to get them working on steam for example. probably others have too. coming from a random online source vs a known individual makes it easier for corps to do it without fessing up to their fuck ups.

[Tylerman29]

I think they can safely ignore it. You overestimate how many people even know what broadcast audio is, much less care as to its inclusion on a home release. We can't even get FUNi to treat the picture right..you think the JP audio is of any concern to them? Even if they WANTED to include such audio that is a tricky legal web. Toei would have to approve of the use of personally recorded materials from individuals and I think they are far too prideful to take those materials.

FUNimations primary audience are the casual dub fans, they are the cash cow of the franchise in the States. I doubt they are worried about losing sales because of the lack of better JP audio. The 30th set was the perfect time to show any sort of respect to the "hardcores" and we all know how that turned out.

[Robo4900]

If I remember correctly, Funimation wanted to use the audio in a previous release (whatever was available back then) but Toei refused to give them the OK. I could be wrong, but I think the reason is because Toei themselves don't own it and they may have been afraid of whoever giving it to Funimation going after everyone in court later on. I'm not the most knowledgeable about this issue, so I'm sure someone with a better understanding on it will explain things better.

No.

Fans have assumed this, but this is not known at all.

However, I will say this:

I know, for a fact, that Funimation have had Z's broadcast audio since about the end of 2016. Maybe the beginning of 2017?
So, if Funimation cared about the broadcast audio, we'd have got it on the 30th sets.

Similarly, if Funimation actually cared about giving fans what they want on a home release, the 30th sets wouldn't have had the shitty DNR/sharpen/uglification filter, and they'd have had a wider frame.

I know that Chris Sabat, when initially given the broadcast audio (which was partially my doing; not even remotely was it solely my doing, but I got a guy who had it to start talking with Derek Padula, who was able to pass it on to Sabat. Just to make my position in this clear) said that he would do everything in his power to get the audio used on a release. But I also know that when the broadcast audio initially leaked, he and Derek Padula both lost their enthusiasm for this effort entirely.

So, to answer OP's question: Funi's home video will continue as normal. The fans will continue to not be catered to, and Funi will continue to pretend they're giving the fans what they want, and the casual fans will continue to just pick up whatever release is cheapest because most people prefer to not pirate things, and if given the choice between a kinda-bad option and literally no option, they'll choose the kinda-bad one. (See also: Star Wars, and Lucasfilm's continual refusal to actually release the original editions on a modern format)

[Matches Malone]

If Funimation cared about the broadcast audio, we'd have got it on the 30th sets.

I also know that when the broadcast audio initially leaked, he and Derek Padula both lost their enthusiasm for this effort entirely.

Wouldn't Funi need Toei's OK before using it ?

Do you know why the leak led them to stop caring about it ? did they assume fans would download it and just modify whatever release they had ?

[Robo4900]

Wouldn't Funi need Toei's OK before using it?

Yes. Absolutely any and every decision made regarding a Toei property requires approval from Toei. But Toei's been awkward about things before, and Funi has changed their mind; Toei were not so sure about Schemmel dropping "I am Son Goku!" in his Kai speech, but they talked them into it, they weren't so sure about the TV edit of Kai -- nor the Ultimate Uncut redub -- having the inaccurate "OVER NINE THOUSAND" line, but they were talked into it... In fact, back in '94, Toei didn't want Funi having the license to Dragon Ball, but thanks to Gen Fukunaga's uncle at Toei, they were talked into it. And then Toei wanted them to do all of DB before doing Z, but Funi talked them into letting Funi skip to Z.

So, maybe Funi asked to use broadcast audio, and Toei denied them it. Yes, that is 100% something that could happen, in theory.

But do you really think Funimation, the guys who've consistently refused to release what they already have, ready to release (the season BDs were remastered like the levels, but then had ugly DNR filtering and cropping manually added on at the end, during the filtering process. Not only could the Season BDs have been a Levels revival, but so could the 30th sets), would really have even the slighest interest in using the broadcast audio to give the fans what they want on the audio side?
Personally, I'm HIGHLY doubtful.

Do you know why the leak led them to stop caring about it ? did they assume fans would download it and just modify whatever release they had ?

I don't know the precise reasoning for sure, but I'm guessing that's it, or at least pretty close. Whatever the case, the initial leak led them to completely lose their enthusiasm. I continued to ensure audio findings were sent to them even long after the leak, but after the 30th sets, honestly now I've lost my enthusiasm for giving this stuff to Funi; clearly they have no intention of using it, so... Ugh. I just don't think there's any hope for a good Dragon Ball release from Funi ever again.

[Matches Malone]

Toei wanted them to do all of DB before doing Z, but Funi talked them into letting Funi skip to Z.

Do you really think Funimation, the guys who've consistently refused to release what they already have, ready to release, would really have even the slightest interest in using the broadcast audio to give the fans what they want on the audio side?

I wish they would've stood their ground on this as Z going before DB has resulted in a lot of misconception regarding DB in the US.

Good point. I guess at this point the only thing we can hope for is a proper release from Toei, but even that's unlikely.

[Robo4900]

I wish they would've stood their ground on this as Z going before DB has resulted in a lot of misconception regarding DB in the US.

TBH, they should've also stood their ground on not giving the unproven startup the license. Funi did not do a good job with Toei's brand. Someone like Viz would've done an infinitely better job.

Good point. I guess at this point the only thing we can hope for is a proper release from Toei, but even that's unlikely.

Yeah. Toei don't tend to do "remasters" of anything on 16mm film, even their most beloved flagship titles. Even if they have a HD scan of the 16mm film, sometimes they'll release a Blu-ray of an upscale of a standard-def downscale of that HD scan (this happened with Fist Of The North Star/Hokuto No Ken).

Honestly, Toei aren't much better than Funi. They cheaped out on the DBoxes, they cheaped out on Kai (which itself was a budget alternative to either doing a proper remaster of DB/Z/GT, or doing a proper, new Dragon Ball series), they cheaped out on Super as well as rushing it, all of which made these things infinitely worse than they could have been.

[Metalwario64]

The Ultimate Uncut redub -- having the inaccurate "OVER NINE THOUSAND" line, but they were talked into it...

Uh... With all of the inacurracies in that dub, that's what they were bothered by? Also, this was 2005, before Kajetokun made it a meme. Why would FUNi have fought for it back then?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I'd love to see a level set revival for all of Z and OG DB and GT done like that.

Realistically, standard editions of the 30th anniversary remaster and UHD Blu-Ray Z "Season" sets are probably coming, and we won't get anything for the other two aforementioned series.

[Robo4900]

The Ultimate Uncut redub -- having the inaccurate "OVER NINE THOUSAND" line, but they were talked into it...

Uh... With all of the inacurracies in that dub, that's what they were bothered by? Also, this was 2005, before Kajetokun made it a meme. Why would FUNi have fought for it back then?

I may be misremembering, but I remember Chris Sabat saying this in his interview with Geekdom.

[eledoremassis02]

I was thinking, for Z
Funi has the series scanned and color corrected. It's not masters but it's more than servicable

Toei just scans the OP/ED and NEP in HD and they both use these to create a proper HD color correctes dragon box.

FUNi can sell them as sets, TOEI can do the two box sets and a bare bones rental ed. To help with reverse importation.

Ofcourse no DNR would be nice, but toei and Funi seem to think otherwise

[TheGreatness25]

I am in the camp that the broadcast audio isn't make-or-break for me. Yeah, it would be nice, but it's just not that important to me. I doubt that Funimation would care enough to use it, but here's my question: would that forgive them? Would the fans value that over Funimation's treatment of the video quality?

I would forgive Funimation's treatment of the video quality if they gave us more audio options -- namely the Latin American dub. They released Ultimate Uncut with it, but we all know how that turned out. So, we know that its inclusion is possible. I'm not even talking about the Westwood/Ocean/Blue Water dubs, which are probably a legal nightmare and unwanted anyway (after all, we all know that there can only be one English-speaking Goku).

I would totally forgive the video quality if other dubs were included (mainly because I could sync them with Dragon Box video), but the original broadcast audio wouldn't move my needle.

[Rory]

I am in the camp that the broadcast audio isn't make-or-break for me. Yeah, it would be nice, but it's just not that important to me. I doubt that Funimation would care enough to use it, but here's my question: would that forgive them? Would the fans value that over Funimation's treatment of the video quality?

Depends what you mean by forgive. Like, if they released a 4:3 release (preferably without excessive DNR and stupid fake grain), and with broadcast audio, I'd buy them. I don't boycott FUNimation, I just don't buy products I find to be subpar. Like, I wouldn't forget the old shitty releases, but I also wouldn't care as much if an acceptable release was available.
So forgive? I don't even see them as needing forgiveness, they don't provide what I want? I don't provide money. It's not like they're Nestlé.