Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

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kei17
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by kei17 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:48 am

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 6:58 pm
I asked a friend in France who imported the Spain DB Blu-rays and said she didn't notice anything like that. Anyone here who has that can confirm?
I checked it out and there's no motion blur, so it means that this was caused by a post-production edit for the DVD release.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by eledoremassis02 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:13 am

kei17 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:48 am
Thanks for the confirmation!

Have you checked the Dragon Box singles from Japan? They might be spared too as they weren't direct clones of the Dragon Box discs (at least the Z ones weren't)

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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:17 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:13 am
Have you checked the Dragon Box singles from Japan? They might be spared too as they weren't direct clones of the Dragon Box discs (at least the Z ones weren't)
I'm fairly sure the DBox singles are the same as the standard boxed versions, just with different packaging. Possibly slightly different menus too.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:19 am

peterx wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:21 am
kei17 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:27 pm
It's kinda surprising that this hasn't been brought up until now. It's very obvious in a lot of scenes containing dark details. I've never noticed this kind of ghosting caused by DNR in DBZ and GT, though.
Dear kei17,

I'm sorry this may be a little bit off-topic here (impossible to contact you :mrgreen: ) but I heard that you created the Youtube version of one of the rarest Dragon Ball special called "Looking Back at it All The Dragon Ball Z Year End Show" from 1993? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoKdHXc_V3o

Would you be so kind to share the "full" version of it with the DB community here? (I'd even pay for it if needed or helping with your dub collections making more complete) It would be make so many DB fans happy as this special is impossible to find in better quality than YT.. :) Thank You very much if you consider it!
This could have been a PM.

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peterx
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by peterx » Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:29 am

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:19 am
peterx wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:21 am
kei17 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:27 pm
It's kinda surprising that this hasn't been brought up until now. It's very obvious in a lot of scenes containing dark details. I've never noticed this kind of ghosting caused by DNR in DBZ and GT, though.
Dear kei17,

I'm sorry this may be a little bit off-topic here (impossible to contact you :mrgreen: ) but I heard that you created the Youtube version of one of the rarest Dragon Ball special called "Looking Back at it All The Dragon Ball Z Year End Show" from 1993? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoKdHXc_V3o

Would you be so kind to share the "full" version of it with the DB community here? (I'd even pay for it if needed or helping with your dub collections making more complete) It would be make so many DB fans happy as this special is impossible to find in better quality than YT.. :) Thank You very much if you consider it!
This could have been a PM.
Hi KBABZ,

I'm sorry, yes that was my original intent but sadly, kei17 has disabled his PM option and I found no other way to contact him/her.. :(

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KBABZ
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by KBABZ » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:23 am

peterx wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 8:29 am
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 5:19 am
This could have been a PM.
Hi KBABZ,

I'm sorry, yes that was my original intent but sadly, kei17 has disabled his PM option and I found no other way to contact him/her.. :(
Gotcha, sorry about that.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by eledoremassis02 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:38 am

Hope this isn't necroposting but I figured I'd save making a new thread. Caught issued with Z with the DNR ghosting.
http://www.framecompare.com/image-compa ... n/7GGD7NNX

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jaisonas
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by jaisonas » Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:01 pm

Reviving this dead thread cause i just want to mention: I'm 99% sure the ghosting isnt a product of DNR rather its caused by the telecine being stored in tape.
Hunter x Hunter suffers from the same ghosting in dark scenes and it absolutely received no DNR whatsoever, they just took the broadcast tapes and threw them in dvds.
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by Zestanor » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:31 pm

I’m not understanding why the Dragon Box digital masters would exist as a telecine, 3:2 pulldown interlaced, since the target format was always progressive scan DVD.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:13 pm

just noticed they fixed this issue on episode 5 with the single. Not sure of this has been mention or not (tho given the age of these releases I wouldn't be surprised)

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jaisonas
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by jaisonas » Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:57 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:31 pm
I’m not understanding why the Dragon Box digital masters would exist as a telecine, 3:2 pulldown interlaced, since the target format was always progressive scan DVD.
I'm referring to the film scan process as a telecine but in any case back in 2002 or whenever they did the remaster, I'm sure digital masters were stored in tape, not computers.
Also known as "[EncoderAnon] and his shitty HxH encode"

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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by sangofe » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:51 am

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:13 pm
just noticed they fixed this issue on episode 5 with the single. Not sure of this has been mention or not (tho given the age of these releases I wouldn't be surprised)

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Dbox Single
Image
This is a very interesting find. I wonder if there are more fixes.

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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 8:52 am

jaisonas wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 12:01 pm
Reviving this dead thread cause i just want to mention: I'm 99% sure the ghosting isnt a product of DNR rather its caused by the telecine being stored in tape.
Hunter x Hunter suffers from the same ghosting in dark scenes and it absolutely received no DNR whatsoever, they just took the broadcast tapes and threw them in dvds.
It's not the telecine or the fact it's on tape. As Kei pointed out earlier in the thread, this issue is not present on the SelectaVision upscales, which are sourced from the same telecined, standard-definition tapes as the Dragon Boxes were authored from.

HxH may not have received any additional DNR for its DVD release, but it may have the same problems as GT's weird, blended broadcast tapes, or its broadcast tapes were DNR'd.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:22 pm

I took a video to show the ghosting in motion (check his knee) It's quite hypnotic :lol:
https://streamable.com/s5evwv
what other issues should I look out for?

Since selectavision doesn't seem to have this issue for Dragon Ball, can someone check FUNi's Z box?

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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by thejeremymenace » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:17 am

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:13 pm
just noticed they fixed this issue on episode 5 with the single. Not sure of this has been mention or not (tho given the age of these releases I wouldn't be surprised)
IIRC the top image is from the Funi box. AFAIK the single releases are bit-for-bit identical to the JP box, though I've only confirmed that with MD5 hashes of one of the later Z discs.
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eledoremassis02
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by eledoremassis02 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:22 am

thejeremymenace wrote:
Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:17 am
eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:13 pm
just noticed they fixed this issue on episode 5 with the single. Not sure of this has been mention or not (tho given the age of these releases I wouldn't be surprised)
IIRC the top image is from the Funi box. AFAIK the single releases are bit-for-bit identical to the JP box, though I've only confirmed that with MD5 hashes of one of the later Z discs.
Huh, Kanzenhuu's review mentioned the Japanese release having the same issue
"Our forum member GizmoKSX came across a high-compressed and macroblocked frame of Nappa at the end of episode five. While brief, it is viewable and slightly jarring during a normal viewing process. Interestingly enough, this identical visual flaw appears on the original Japanese R2 discs, as well. "

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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by thejeremymenace » Mon Sep 21, 2020 2:19 pm

Out of curiosity I compared the two myself, and I didn't notice any significant blips in the Nappa cut in the R2 ver. Here's the same frame side-by-side (R2 top):
There is, however, this one on R2, where the encoder really struggles to keep up with the high contrast flashing:
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Tue Sep 22, 2020 11:45 pm

Love it when you go on these deep dives Robo. Always makes for some good reading and discussion.

The pirate cave episodes are especially cursed by this nasty motion blurring since most scenes the background and colors are dark-on-dark. In episode 52, the scene with Goku fighting the giant octopus in particular gets messy, every time the octopus swings it's tentacles around you get that ghosting.

I wish I could show it here, but I dont think I can capture the effect in action myself. You'll have to just go and watch if you're curious. You can't miss it.
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by HakkaiBills93 » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:28 am

peterx wrote:
Mon Mar 23, 2020 7:21 am
kei17 wrote:
Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:27 pm
It's kinda surprising that this hasn't been brought up until now. It's very obvious in a lot of scenes containing dark details. I've never noticed this kind of ghosting caused by DNR in DBZ and GT, though.
Dear kei17,

I'm sorry this may be a little bit off-topic here (impossible to contact you :mrgreen: ) but I heard that you created the Youtube version of one of the rarest Dragon Ball special called "Looking Back at it All The Dragon Ball Z Year End Show" from 1993? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoKdHXc_V3o

Would you be so kind to share the "full" version of it with the DB community here? (I'd even pay for it if needed or helping with your dub collections making more complete) It would be make so many DB fans happy as this special is impossible to find in better quality than YT.. :) Thank You very much if you consider it!
He don't have it so no need to ask him, the one that have is a guy called pekindaq but he'll never share it, he dislike when people ask him stuffs, that's not the kind of guy who really care about preservation, archives or anything other than his collector value so it's useless to spread this messages on this forum, nothing more with this kind of "rare" value will be share ever

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eledoremassis02
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Re: Problem #472 with the Dragon Boxes - DNR

Post by eledoremassis02 » Fri Sep 25, 2020 2:07 am

Since the french bluray doesn't have the issue with dark ghost I was wondering if perhaps FUNimation's copies were spared. I asked a friend who has some of the boxes to get any shots and it does in fact have the same issue.
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