Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:49 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:17 pm
Thanks MyVisionity

Still you can interpret 16’s absence in that scene as either Toriyama forgot about him or Shen Long didn’t revive him.
I wouldn't put it past that Toriyama may have possibly forgotten about No. 16 in a similar fashion to what had happened with Lunch in the manga especially seeing as how she was inserted into those bits of Saiyan arc filler material involving Tenshinhan and Chaozu by the anime staff and the Genki Dama bit in the Buu arc to address that whereas otherwise she'd been largely absent after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai in terms of personal appearances in the series proper.
Well, as MrVisionary helpfully pointed out, there's this rather excellent entry in the rumours guide: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/characters/
... Which indicates Toriyama never actually did forget about Lunch.

I don't think Toriyama is really as forgetful as people think when he's working. After the fact, his recollections are messy, but when he's in the zone, actually working, he seems to have a pretty good grasp on things.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:53 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:49 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:29 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:17 pm
Thanks MyVisionity

Still you can interpret 16’s absence in that scene as either Toriyama forgot about him or Shen Long didn’t revive him.
I wouldn't put it past that Toriyama may have possibly forgotten about No. 16 in a similar fashion to what had happened with Lunch in the manga especially seeing as how she was inserted into those bits of Saiyan arc filler material involving Tenshinhan and Chaozu by the anime staff and the Genki Dama bit in the Buu arc to address that whereas otherwise she'd been largely absent after the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai in terms of personal appearances in the series proper.
Well, as MrVisionary helpfully pointed out, there's this rather excellent entry in the rumours guide: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/rumor/characters/
... Which indicates Toriyama never actually did forget about Lunch.

I don't think Toriyama is really as forgetful as people think when he's working. After the fact, his recollections are messy, but when he's in the zone, actually working, he seems to have a pretty good grasp on things.
So given that it must have been he didn't so much forget about her per se, just that he didn't really have all that much to write for her in terms of significant material to contribute to in terms of the story as a whole. Of course, some people takes those significant stretches of non appearance as forgetfulness on his part when that wasn't actually the case even though it seemed to be.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:53 pm
So given that it must have been he didn't so much forget about her per se, just that he didn't really have all that much to write for her in terms of significant material to contribute to in terms of the story as a whole. Of course, some people takes those significant stretches of non appearance as forgetfulness on his part when that wasn't actually the case even though it seemed to be.
Yeah, this is my take as well. Even in the 22nd TB she really didn't have that much to contribute, so in the Saiyan portion (which on the manga side has a limited cast), she doesn't appear. Now of course it'd make sense for her to be there when Trunks arrives, but remember that just before then the story had been on Namek for over a year, so I don't blame him for not remembering by then.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:23 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:53 pm
So given that it must have been he didn't so much forget about her per se, just that he didn't really have all that much to write for her in terms of significant material to contribute to in terms of the story as a whole. Of course, some people takes those significant stretches of non appearance as forgetfulness on his part when that wasn't actually the case even though it seemed to be.
Yeah, this is my take as well. Even in the 22nd TB she really didn't have that much to contribute, so in the Saiyan portion (which on the manga side has a limited cast), she doesn't appear. Now of course it'd make sense for her to be there when Trunks arrives, but remember that just before then the story had been on Namek for over a year, so I don't blame him for not remembering by then.
That's why i figure the anime staff added those bits of filler material in the one episode with Tenshinhan and Chaozu when adapting the Saiyan arc for the anime, and also her one scene inclusion during the formation of Goku's Genki Dama against Majin Buu given that she's otherwise effectively absent from the Z storyline for the most part. At least there she gets some degree of exposure which the manga didn't for the reasons you mention above.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:52 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:30 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:23 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 10:53 pm
So given that it must have been he didn't so much forget about her per se, just that he didn't really have all that much to write for her in terms of significant material to contribute to in terms of the story as a whole. Of course, some people takes those significant stretches of non appearance as forgetfulness on his part when that wasn't actually the case even though it seemed to be.
Yeah, this is my take as well. Even in the 22nd TB she really didn't have that much to contribute, so in the Saiyan portion (which on the manga side has a limited cast), she doesn't appear. Now of course it'd make sense for her to be there when Trunks arrives, but remember that just before then the story had been on Namek for over a year, so I don't blame him for not remembering by then.
That's why i figure the anime staff added those bits of filler material with Tenshinhan and Chaozu when adapting the Saiyan arc for the anime, and also her one scene inclusion during the formation of Goku's Genki Dama against Majin Buu given she's otherwise effectively absent from the Z storyline for the most part. At least there she gets some degree of exposure which the manga didn't for the reasons you mention above.
Yeah. Though apparently the filler with her, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu may have been a Toriyama suggestion originally.

It's a shame that she was so absent, though. She would've been a fun presence in the Cyborgs/Cell arc, and the Boo arc. She's a fun character. Plus, Dragon Ball is desperately short on women, so the fact Toriyama sort of just dropped her after Piccolo is especially sad in that regard.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:37 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:30 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:23 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 11:12 pm

Yeah, this is my take as well. Even in the 22nd TB she really didn't have that much to contribute, so in the Saiyan portion (which on the manga side has a limited cast), she doesn't appear. Now of course it'd make sense for her to be there when Trunks arrives, but remember that just before then the story had been on Namek for over a year, so I don't blame him for not remembering by then.
That's why i figure the anime staff added those bits of filler material with Tenshinhan and Chaozu when adapting the Saiyan arc for the anime, and also her one scene inclusion during the formation of Goku's Genki Dama against Majin Buu given she's otherwise effectively absent from the Z storyline for the most part. At least there she gets some degree of exposure which the manga didn't for the reasons you mention above.
Yeah. Though apparently the filler with her, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu may have been a Toriyama suggestion originally.

It's a shame that she was so absent, though. She would've been a fun presence in the Cyborgs/Cell arc, and the Boo arc. She's a fun character. Plus, Dragon Ball is desperately short on women, so the fact Toriyama sort of just dropped her after Piccolo is especially sad in that regard.
I don't know for sure if he had a hand in that or not, though still it's a shame he effectively stopped including her as far as significant appearances in the story after the 23rd Budokai because having her in those above arcs even just small amounts would've been better than what happened with Lunch pretty much being MIA through the series in terms of the the manga though at least those aforementioned filler tidbits she got in the anime made up for it to some extent. Though yeah, it could have been better overall had they included her more.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:04 pm

Couldn't be bothered to post my thoughts on 53-55 in the last thread -- good episodes, not really much to say that wasn't already said, though, so I didn't bother.

Watched episode 56. I love how bizarre the Slump crossover is.
One of these days, I'll read the manga so it actually means something to me, but for now, I just enjoy how bizarre it all is. :)
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:15 am

I’m kind of surprised Dr.Slump never made it to the West.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:17 pm

I've watched 57-59.

Great episodes. The Dr Slump crossover didn't outstay its welcome, and the end of Blue was great.

A lot of great gags here. The woman at the police station shooting at everything, the police chasing the aliens, Blue in the fridge (which may be the best gag in the franchise), Tao on the pillar...

And of course, 59 ends on the horrific scene of Bora's murder. The first time Dragon Ball has ever been this brutal. This is the moment when the villains of Dragon Ball become truly despicable, and truly horrifying.
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 1:15 am
I’m kind of surprised Dr.Slump never made it to the West.
Agreed. I think it would've worked great. It's a shame no one picked it up after Harmony Gold's pilot effort.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:23 pm

It really is a darn shame that no other companies tried to adapt it after Harmony Gold passed from just doing the first episode as a test pilot, i've watched a good chunk of the series fansubbed online and it's all in all a pretty funny gag show and i do intend to start collecting the manga at some point. I will likely also eventually grab the movie set Diskotek released a few years ago.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Danfun64 » Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:18 pm

Apparently, according to French Wikipedia, the AB Groupe canceled their dub of the original Dr Slump anime 55 episodes in because they were tired of censoring the abundant poop jokes. They didn't even bother dubbing the remake anime. When was blatantly showing poop (even cartoonish poop) acceptable in children's TV in the US again, if ever?
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:20 am

Danfun64 wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 11:18 pm
When was blatantly showing poop (even cartoonish poop) acceptable in children's TV in the US again, if ever?
I seem to remember the Digimon dub sidestepping the blatantly cartoonish poop by calling it other stuff. The Funi dub of Dragon Ball also kind of ignored that there was sentient poop in Penguin Village and called it something else.

I don’t feel like it would have been THAT big of a deal just to call it other stuff.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:02 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:20 am
I seem to remember the Digimon dub sidestepping the blatantly cartoonish poop by calling it other stuff. The Funi dub of Dragon Ball also kind of ignored that there was sentient poop in Penguin Village and called it something else.
In the Dr. Slump episodes of Dragon Ball, I don't think anyone ever calls it poop, but Blue's reaction means you know EXACTLY what it is.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:52 am

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:02 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:20 am
I seem to remember the Digimon dub sidestepping the blatantly cartoonish poop by calling it other stuff. The Funi dub of Dragon Ball also kind of ignored that there was sentient poop in Penguin Village and called it something else.
In the Dr. Slump episodes of Dragon Ball, I don't think anyone ever calls it poop, but Blue's reaction means you know EXACTLY what it is.
I'm not so sure. You know it's something gross, but unless you have a context for the Dr Slump style pink poop with a big smiley face on it, it just comes off as more weirdness in those goofball episodes.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:44 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:52 am
I'm not so sure. You know it's something gross, but unless you have a context for the Dr Slump style pink poop with a big smiley face on it, it just comes off as more weirdness in those goofball episodes.
I remember it showing up in Digimon (I think Koromon pooped in Tai's dad's car) and even though it wasn't named, similar to Slump it was pretty obvious what it was (in fact it was ALSO pink!).

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:51 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:02 am
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:20 am
I seem to remember the Digimon dub sidestepping the blatantly cartoonish poop by calling it other stuff. The Funi dub of Dragon Ball also kind of ignored that there was sentient poop in Penguin Village and called it something else.
In the Dr. Slump episodes of Dragon Ball, I don't think anyone ever calls it poop, but Blue's reaction means you know EXACTLY what it is.
In the Japanese version Blue directly refers to it as poop. The Funi dub just kind of avoids what it is but the dialog suggest he takes more issue with the fact that it has a face on it then the fact that's she's trying to feed him poop.

Anyways I doubt that would have been a problem in dubbing Dr.Slump. You would think Funimation would have licensed it and just been all "From the creator of Dragon Ball Z!!!!"

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:09 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:51 pm
Anyways I doubt that would have been a problem in dubbing Dr.Slump. You would think Funimation would have licensed it and just been all "From the creator of Dragon Ball Z!!!!"
You kidding? Fukunaga would prefer if Toriyama had just started writing manga with Raditz and nothing else to make his life easier.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:34 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:09 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:51 pm
Anyways I doubt that would have been a problem in dubbing Dr.Slump. You would think Funimation would have licensed it and just been all "From the creator of Dragon Ball Z!!!!"
You kidding? Fukunaga would prefer if Toriyama had just started writing manga with Raditz and nothing else to make his life easier.
So basically, as in wished that Toriyama had never done Dr. Slump or the first 190 or so chapters (the Dragon Ball portion) and it all began with Z? I just couldn't begin to imagine how different the series would be if that happened. Other than of course nobody knowing who the characters are or where they came from since there wouldn't be an origin story to them. Though that did sort of happen anyway when FUNi skipped ahead to DBZ in 1996 after dubbing the first arc of the original series the previous year fell through.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:44 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:34 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:09 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:51 pm
Anyways I doubt that would have been a problem in dubbing Dr.Slump. You would think Funimation would have licensed it and just been all "From the creator of Dragon Ball Z!!!!"
You kidding? Fukunaga would prefer if Toriyama had just started writing manga with Raditz and nothing else to make his life easier.
So basically, if he'd have never done the first 190 or so chapters and it began with Z?
Yes, that's the joke. Fukanaga apparently doesn't think very highly of the original Dragon Ball anime and didn't want to do the 2002 dub.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 13 - DB episodes 56-60 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:30 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:44 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:34 pm
KBABZ wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:09 pm

You kidding? Fukunaga would prefer if Toriyama had just started writing manga with Raditz and nothing else to make his life easier.
So basically, if he'd have never done the first 190 or so chapters and it began with Z?
Yes, that's the joke. Fukanaga apparently doesn't think very highly of the original Dragon Ball anime and didn't want to do the 2002 dub.
Wow, so he seriously didn't want to release the rest of the original series here? I'm guessing because he'd still had the underperformance (or whatever) of the original 13 episode run from 1995 in the back of his mind but eventually relented and went ahead with itL

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