Endings

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Lord Beerus
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Re: Endings

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:26 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:38 pm
Yeah, the movie version of the Beers arc is much better. I would like to keep in mind that a certain executive interfered with the TV version, though. This is why I believe it was not only written generically but also had such poor animation.
Wait what? This is news to me. Who got involved and fucked things up?

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Re: Endings

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:52 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:26 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:38 pm
Yeah, the movie version of the Beers arc is much better. I would like to keep in mind that a certain executive interfered with the TV version, though. This is why I believe it was not only written generically but also had such poor animation.
Wait what? This is news to me. Who got involved and fucked things up?
Morishita Kouzou. He caused a lot of headaches early on in the planning. Kei's mentioned this publicly so I guess it's okay to just outright say it. Because of his high position in the company he seemed to have the standing to just demand delays so that he could personally approve of things. The thing is, he was the fucking VP and chairman so his schedule is going to be packed, not to mention he's notoriously bad at keeping to a schedule. He was fired by way of promotion to producer from being the series director of Saint Seiya because he spent so much time on the painting as well as using too many in-between animation drawings.

Combine Morishita being a blockhead with having few animators on hand and really hard to draw--let alone animate--character designs and you get Dragon Ball Super.
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Re: Endings

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:08 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:52 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:26 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 6:38 pm
Yeah, the movie version of the Beers arc is much better. I would like to keep in mind that a certain executive interfered with the TV version, though. This is why I believe it was not only written generically but also had such poor animation.
Wait what? This is news to me. Who got involved and fucked things up?
Morishita Kouzou. He caused a lot of headaches early on in the planning. Kei's mentioned this publicly so I guess it's okay to just outright say it. Because of his high position in the company he seemed to have the standing to just demand delays so that he could personally approve of things. The thing is, he was the fucking VP and chairman so his schedule is going to be packed, not to mention he's notoriously bad at keeping to a schedule. He was fired by way of promotion to producer from being the series director of Saint Seiya because he spent so much time on the painting as well as using too many in-between animation drawings.

Combine Morishita being a blockhead with having few animators on hand and really hard to draw--let alone animate--character designs and you get Dragon Ball Super.
Yikes.

Just makes how Super was able to somewhat pull itself from the gutter from the beginning of the Future Trunks arc and onward all the more miraculous.

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Re: Endings

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:12 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:08 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:52 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:26 pm

Wait what? This is news to me. Who got involved and fucked things up?
Morishita Kouzou. He caused a lot of headaches early on in the planning. Kei's mentioned this publicly so I guess it's okay to just outright say it. Because of his high position in the company he seemed to have the standing to just demand delays so that he could personally approve of things. The thing is, he was the fucking VP and chairman so his schedule is going to be packed, not to mention he's notoriously bad at keeping to a schedule. He was fired by way of promotion to producer from being the series director of Saint Seiya because he spent so much time on the painting as well as using too many in-between animation drawings.

Combine Morishita being a blockhead with having few animators on hand and really hard to draw--let alone animate--character designs and you get Dragon Ball Super.
Yikes.

Just makes how Super was able to somewhat pull itself from the gutter from the beginning of the Future Trunks arc and onward all the more miraculous.
I mean, I'm hesitant to say it ever picked itself up from the gutter during it's 131-episode run but at the very least slightly better looking episodes did eventually occur.
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Re: Endings

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 5:47 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:12 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:08 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:52 pm


Morishita Kouzou. He caused a lot of headaches early on in the planning. Kei's mentioned this publicly so I guess it's okay to just outright say it. Because of his high position in the company he seemed to have the standing to just demand delays so that he could personally approve of things. The thing is, he was the fucking VP and chairman so his schedule is going to be packed, not to mention he's notoriously bad at keeping to a schedule. He was fired by way of promotion to producer from being the series director of Saint Seiya because he spent so much time on the painting as well as using too many in-between animation drawings.

Combine Morishita being a blockhead with having few animators on hand and really hard to draw--let alone animate--character designs and you get Dragon Ball Super.
Yikes.

Just makes how Super was able to somewhat pull itself from the gutter from the beginning of the Future Trunks arc and onward all the more miraculous.
I mean, I'm hesitant to say it ever picked itself up from the gutter during it's 131-episode run but at the very least slightly better looking episodes did eventually occur.
Well, I'd say that the Future Trunks and ToP arcs are generally much better than the two movie retellings and the U6's arc (which was pretty forgettable aside from Hit vs. Goku). Obviously they have many flaws, but in my opinion ep. 47 was the moment Super became a lot more interesting, both visually and writing-wise.
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Re: Endings

Post by Dbzfan94 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:19 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 9:08 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:52 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:26 pm

Wait what? This is news to me. Who got involved and fucked things up?
Morishita Kouzou. He caused a lot of headaches early on in the planning. Kei's mentioned this publicly so I guess it's okay to just outright say it. Because of his high position in the company he seemed to have the standing to just demand delays so that he could personally approve of things. The thing is, he was the fucking VP and chairman so his schedule is going to be packed, not to mention he's notoriously bad at keeping to a schedule. He was fired by way of promotion to producer from being the series director of Saint Seiya because he spent so much time on the painting as well as using too many in-between animation drawings.

Combine Morishita being a blockhead with having few animators on hand and really hard to draw--let alone animate--character designs and you get Dragon Ball Super.
Yikes.

Just makes how Super was able to somewhat pull itself from the gutter from the beginning of the Future Trunks arc and onward all the more miraculous.
Proves how strong brand loyalty can be. Unfortunately.

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Re: Endings

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:46 pm

Speaking of endings, is there anyway to give a proper finale to the Super era, that would still take place before the epilogue with Oob?

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Re: Endings

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:12 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:46 pm
Is there anyway to give a proper finale to the Super era, that would still take place before the epilogue with Oob?
I think there's 2 arcs that can end Super in a grand way. The first being a tournament between U7 and the 4 universes that didn't take part in the TOP. The second being a war between Freeza and the entire multiverse. I think both will happen, I just don't know which will be first.

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Re: Endings

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:41 pm

The Universal Conflict arc from Heroes was in concept very good (execution not so much, but it'd be easier to write it in 22 minutes episodes). It'd make for a great final arc for Super. The introduction of new villains like Hearts (who wants to dethrone Zeno, bringing closure to the "mortals vs. gods" conflict started in BoG), as well as the return of old villains like Fused Zamasu or Baby (the twins are basically a carbon copy of Baby) would satisfy everyone.

I have no doubt that the ending of Super will be emotional for a lot of people. I mean, if you look at the reaction here on various subforums or even on youtube, the ending of ToP arc already felt very emotional for many, and that wasn't even a real ending, so much so that the narrator literally tells the audience that it's just a brief parting before new adventures.
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Re: Endings

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:54 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:12 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:46 pm
Is there anyway to give a proper finale to the Super era, that would still take place before the epilogue with Oob?
I think there's 2 arcs that can end Super in a grand way. The first being a tournament between U7 and the 4 universes that didn't take part in the TOP. The second being a war between Freeza and the entire multiverse. I think both will happen, I just don't know which will be first.
I really can’t imagine what the point of another tournament would be. That would just be repetitive at this point.

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Re: Endings

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:57 pm

Another tournament would definitely need to be a different kind of tournament, like a race or a catch-the-flag type of deal. Something that tests the characters in a way other than "Who at their maximum stamina is stronger than this other person at their maximum stamina?" because those fights can really only work, like, once in a tournament. Never let the audience know who can beat who in a one-on-one at maximum power. Ever.
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Re: Endings

Post by ABED » Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:44 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:57 pm
Another tournament would definitely need to be a different kind of tournament, like a race or a catch-the-flag type of deal. Something that tests the characters in a way other than "Who at their maximum stamina is stronger than this other person at their maximum stamina?" because those fights can really only work, like, once in a tournament. Never let the audience know who can beat who in a one-on-one at maximum power. Ever.
Did anyone not believe Goku would defeat Piccolo at the 23rd TB?
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Re: Endings

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:02 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:57 pm
Another tournament would definitely need to be a different kind of tournament, like a race or a catch-the-flag type of deal. Something that tests the characters in a way other than "Who at their maximum stamina is stronger than this other person at their maximum stamina?" because those fights can really only work, like, once in a tournament. Never let the audience know who can beat who in a one-on-one at maximum power. Ever.
It’s a martial arts show. Ergo the tournaments are fighting based. You seem to miss the point of what kind of work Dragon Ball actually is.

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Re: Endings

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:03 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:02 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:57 pm
Another tournament would definitely need to be a different kind of tournament, like a race or a catch-the-flag type of deal. Something that tests the characters in a way other than "Who at their maximum stamina is stronger than this other person at their maximum stamina?" because those fights can really only work, like, once in a tournament. Never let the audience know who can beat who in a one-on-one at maximum power. Ever.
It’s a martial arts show. Ergo the tournaments are fighting based. You seem to miss the point of what kind of work Dragon Ball actually is.
I wasn't aware my Dragon Ball fandom was on trial. Can my public defender be cute? And taller than me? Oh gosh, I hope she does a kabedon on me. 😳

Like, there can still be fighting. It's just that victory should be a test of a skill other than the ability to kick someone's ass while you both begin a Fight at full stamina. Muten Roushi's stone test taken to the next level. Save a direct confrontation for the very last match, if that.
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Re: Endings

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:34 pm

What would even be the story basis for another tournament between universes? Another situation where the fate of the universe is on the line?

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Re: Endings

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:29 am

ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:44 pm
Did anyone not believe Goku would defeat Piccolo at the 23rd TB?
Based on the previous 2 tournaments, I think a lot of fans might've thought he'd lose again.
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:54 pm
I really can’t imagine what the point of another tournament would be. That would just be repetitive at this point.
One thing they could do to change it up is have U7's team also include fighters from who they fought in the TOP.

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Re: Endings

Post by MCDaveG » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:27 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:03 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:02 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:57 pm
Another tournament would definitely need to be a different kind of tournament, like a race or a catch-the-flag type of deal. Something that tests the characters in a way other than "Who at their maximum stamina is stronger than this other person at their maximum stamina?" because those fights can really only work, like, once in a tournament. Never let the audience know who can beat who in a one-on-one at maximum power. Ever.
It’s a martial arts show. Ergo the tournaments are fighting based. You seem to miss the point of what kind of work Dragon Ball actually is.
I wasn't aware my Dragon Ball fandom was on trial. Can my public defender be cute? And taller than me? Oh gosh, I hope she does a kabedon on me. 😳

Like, there can still be fighting. It's just that victory should be a test of a skill other than the ability to kick someone's ass while you both begin a Fight at full stamina. Muten Roushi's stone test taken to the next level. Save a direct confrontation for the very last match, if that.
Hey, pssst, do you care about power levels? :lol:
I think it would be funny to have some test of wits, like in Gintama they are on this quiz show and it is hilariously bad.
I actually loved the idea in Champa's tournament to test if the fighters are sentient and Buu not qualifying.
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Re: Endings

Post by ABED » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:53 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:29 am
ABED wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:44 pm
Did anyone not believe Goku would defeat Piccolo at the 23rd TB?
Based on the previous 2 tournaments, I think a lot of fans might've thought he'd lose again.
WittyUsername wrote:
Mon Mar 30, 2020 3:54 pm
I really can’t imagine what the point of another tournament would be. That would just be repetitive at this point.
One thing they could do to change it up is have U7's team also include fighters from who they fought in the TOP.
The far more likely outcome is third time's a charm.
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Re: Endings

Post by kemuri07 » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:06 am

Another tournament arc. Same as the first, but a whole lot louder and a whoooole lot worst.

If that's what we're suggesting, then let's call it a day and admit that DB is a dead horse.

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Re: Endings

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:30 am

I just don’t understand how another tournament would work at this point. The Tournament of Power was a battle royale with 80 fighters, and universe ending stakes. How exactly are you supposed to top that? Furthermore, as I asked before, what would be the in-universe basis for another tournament?

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