How do you ''see'' the forum?

[SupremeKai25]

I find that there is a lot of cynicism and negativity on the forums. It's kind of depressing sometimes, so I need to take a break from it at times.

It may not be perfect, but it's nowhere near as bad as something like Raddit or a Youtube comment section. At least here you can have a discussion without it turning into a back and forth game of "(insert something here) sucks because I say so". Generally speaking, you've got well thought out arguments here that even if you don't agree with them, you can at least understand where they're coming from.

I disagree. From my experience, this place is the most negative DB forum as far as new things and Super are concerned, even if people might have well-thought arguments.

[Matches Malone]

From my experience, this place is the most negative DB forum as far as new things and Super are concerned, even if people might have well-thought arguments.

That's because Super isn't that good. I don't agree with comments like "super sucks" that have nothing of value, but fans here (including myself) have gone into detail about why we believe Super isn't a very good product. With that said, I still found Super enjoyable, and am looking forward to its future, but there are obvious problems that can't be overlooked.

[SupremeKai25]

From my experience, this place is the most negative DB forum as far as new things and Super are concerned, even if people might have well-thought arguments.

That's because Super isn't that good. I don't agree with comments like "super sucks" that have nothing of value, but fans here (including myself) have gone into detail about why we believe Super isn't a very good product. With that said, I still found Super enjoyable, and am looking forward to its future, but there are obvious problems that can't be overlooked.

Other places also acknowledge the problems that Super has, they dont turn a blind eye to it, but at the same time they have an optimistic approach to new content. Here I see a lot more negativity, not just surrounding Super but also the future of Dragon Ball.

[KBABZ]

It does bear noting that negativity is a recurring "symptom" of being a Kanzenshuu-level fan of anything, especially something as low-bar-but-still-great and long-running as Dragon Ball. Star Wars is a great example where people hold the modern movies to a much higher standard than the original three films (and especially the very first one). Fans of our level expect an upward trajectory and slightly higher story/production qualities to match where they see it could go and have drawn out of the originals through decades of observation. So when they inevitably aren't met and fail to truly capture the magic of the original beyond superficial levels then, well, it's kinda easy to be pessimistic about future endeavours, isn't it?

Meanwhile a more surface-level fan will lap up just about anything and come off happy for it. Just they're happy to have more, no matter the form.

[Matches Malone]

Here I see a lot more negativity, not just surrounding Super but also the future of Dragon Ball.

That's because the standards set by modern DB aren't very high, resulting in low expectations for its future. If you get C and D in school, chances are people aren't going to expect you to get A overnight.

[LoganForkHands73]

I mainly transferred over here from Reddit because the dbz sub seem to be literally allergic to any kind of discussion, positive, negative or neutral (every topic I've posted has been downvoted to shit for no discernible reason at all). They just want to see the same pretty traced fan art of Gogeta Blue every day and quote TFS, I'm convinced. Anyway, I like this forum's commitment to open discussion but there is a stronger negative attitude around here about... well, everything really. Comparing the Reddit threads about the recent manga chapters to the ones around here show a stark difference in mentality, although the most recent one was fairly controversial across the board.

As someone who is roundly enjoying the ride with new DB content, it can be a little disheartening to see so much hate, but damn if it isn't well-argued hate... for the most part. So I definitely enjoy the critical thinking this forum brings compared to others, yes.

[Grimlock]

If you get C and D in school, chances are people aren't going to expect you to get A overnight.

You get two C for retellings, two D for tournaments, and one B for an average homework. Convincing others you can get an A won't be easy until it finally happens. So the "negativity" (I think the right word here is "disappointment" but anyway) is fairly understandable.

[Matches Malone]

You get two C for retellings, two D for tournaments, and one B for an average homework. Convincing others you can get an A won't be easy until it finally happens. So the "negativity" (I think the right word here is "disappointment" but anyway) is fairly understandable.

If the Moro arc can end on a high note, and if the next arc and movie aren't some reboot or retrace of an older idea, then modern DB will be on its way to redeeming itself. That's probably not likely due to Broly's success, but one can hope.

[KBABZ]

Here I see a lot more negativity, not just surrounding Super but also the future of Dragon Ball.

That's because the standards set by modern DB aren't very high, resulting in low expectations for its future.

I agree with this statement, but it's also important to remember that Dragon Ball, especially the anime and especially Z and GT, were made as self-marketing products to appeal ten year old boys. Even the Classic Era in the 90s had stuff like half of the movies and Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, whose only apparent positive traits are "they exist".

[Robo4900]

Here I see a lot more negativity, not just surrounding Super but also the future of Dragon Ball.

That's because the standards set by modern DB aren't very high, resulting in low expectations for its future.

I agree with this statement, but it's also important to remember that Dragon Ball, especially the anime and especially Z and GT, were made as self-marketing products to appeal ten year old boys. Even the Classic Era in the 90s had stuff like half of the movies and Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, whose only apparent positive traits are "they exist".

Sure, but the primary product was Toriyama's excellent manga, and its anime adaptation.

Right now, the primary product is the Super anime, and its manga adaptation, both of which are... Well.. Shit.

[JulieYBM]

I will always remember reading about how fans of Toriyama thought Dragon Ball started getting bad during the martial arts tournaments of the 1980s. Thank you, Kunzait.

[Matches Malone]

Dragon Ball, especially the anime and especially Z and GT, were made as self-marketing products to appeal ten year old boys.

The anime was actually made to market Toriyama's manga, as selling the manga is the main priority for the right holders. Despite being aimed at kids, it was written well enough to appeal to people of all ages. Not only did the original go on to became the biggest name in anime/manga, it also went on to inspire equally good and popular new series. This doesn't apply to modern DB at all.

Even the Classic Era had stuff like half of the movies and Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans, whose only apparent positive traits are "they exist".

They weren't expected to be anything more though. Those movies were just side products to push the manga's popularity, as that was the main product at the time. Now though, we're getting main products that are on the same level as those older movies. RF is a good example of this. Instead of having an impact on the overall plot of the franchise and pushing things ahead, it ended up bringing nothing new to the table, so much so that you could skip it entirely and miss nothing. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't a bad movie, as it still had some good moments, but it could've been so much more.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The Tournament of Power arc in the anime was at least as good as the second half of the Buu saga in the manga (a rather low point) IMO.

[KBABZ]

Personally I feel that from Toei's perspective, the anime was the main product, not the manga.

[Matches Malone]

Personally I feel that from Toei's perspective, the anime was the main product, not the manga.

Of course, it's what they themselves were working on so that's probably all that mattered to them. When it comes to Shueisha though (the right holders to DB and other franchises), the manga is the #1 priority, and all things from the anime to merchandise depend on its success.

[KBABZ]

Personally I feel that from Toei's perspective, the anime was the main product, not the manga.

Of course, it's what they themselves were working on so that's probably all that mattered to them. When it comes to Shueisha though (the right holders to DB and other franchises), the manga is the #1 priority, and all things from the anime to merchandise depend on its success.

Sure, but IMO it's very telling that the anime is BY FAR the most popular version of the story, rather than the actual source material.

[Witty User Name]

Personally I feel that from Toei's perspective, the anime was the main product, not the manga.

Of course, it's what they themselves were working on so that's probably all that mattered to them. When it comes to Shueisha though (the right holders to DB and other franchises), the manga is the #1 priority, and all things from the anime to merchandise depend on its success.

Sure, but IMO it's very telling that the anime is BY FAR the most popular version of the story, rather than the actual source material.

Yeah, the manga is better (IMO) but unfortunately the anime is, as you say, ''BY FAR the most popular version of the story''. I am also sure it's because people ejnoy more watching than actually sat down down and read.

[Matches Malone]

Yeah, the manga is better (IMO) but unfortunately the anime is, as you say, ''BY FAR the most popular version of the story''. I am also sure it's because people ejnoy more watching than actually sat down down and read.

As good as manga can be, a proper anime can make it even better with things like voice acting, music, movement, etc. These are things that bring the story to life in a way that can't be done with manga.

[VegettoEX]

Let's please be careful about turning this into a topic it's not. There are plenty of other ongoing threads/conversations where some of this would be more appropriate.

I would caution people about viewing this forum as an "academic" arena. That's... well, beyond just not being accurate... I dunno, I think the word "elitist" has lost all meaning, but it certainly fits.

As others have said, it's a website (and community extension) that's run by adults for adults that have been doing this a long time. We know what we want, we have expectations, and for the most part, we get them / meet them. I think that's a good thing! Thankfully, a lot of you seem to agree.

There's a lot of serious conversation to be had, and there's a lot of fun to be had. We take our silly series seriously, but we don't necessarily take ourselves too seriously in the process. We're here to inform and share our love and appreciation!

[Matches Malone]

I would caution people about viewing this forum as an "academic" arena. That's... well, beyond just not being accurate... I dunno, I think the word "elitist" has lost all meaning, but it certainly fits.

I think people mean academic in the sense of learning more about the franchise and what goes into making it compared to other sites. The production guide is a great example of going in depth about the process that's taken to bring the anime to life, and it gives an insight into how things in the industry as a whole works.