Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:47 am

Image

Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 14 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

We're coming up on the end of the Red Ribbon arc now. Though depending on your thoughts on how the Baba arc fits in, you might say we've still got about three weeks left. ;)

Previous thread: Week 13 (DB 56-60)
Next thread: Week 15 (66-70)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 61 - Karin-sama of Karin Tower
Dub title: Korin Tower / Korin Of The Korin Tower
Originally aired 6th of May 1987

Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Tomekichi Takeuchi


Goku struggles his way to the top of the tower, and there he meets the cat sage Karin, who has the appearance of a cat. In order to drink the Super Holy Water that will multiple his power many times over, Goku must actually steal the jar that contains the Super Holy Water from Karin-sama! Goku pursues Karin-sama with all his might, but is unable to even touch the jar!! Karin-sama says that the only one to have ever drunk the Super Holy Water was Muten Roshi, 300 years ago. Yet Karin-sama says it took him three years to manage to drink the water!!

Anime-only/filler content: Goku looking into the Past, Present and Future pots, Karin refusing to let Goku have the sacred water, Tao deflecting a sniper's shot with his slipper, Tao self-heating his bath and having boiled eggs, Roshi and Bulma at Kame House as a storm brews.

Episode 62 - Really?! The Effects of the Super Holy Water
Dub title: Sacred Water / Magic Water
Originally aired 13th of May 1987

Episode director: Kazuhisa Takenouchi
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama


After going to retrieve the Four-Star Ball that Karin-sama dropped, Goku makes the round trip up Karin Tower in three hours, even though it took him an entire day when he first climbed up! Furthermore, Goku copies the sleeping Karin-sama‘s breathing and movement during the night, and is then able to read Karin-sama‘s movements and finally obtain the jar of Super Holy Water. But it contains ordinary water?! It turns out that the act of obtaining the jar was itself training that increased his power many times over!! At that time, having obtained brand new clothes, Tao Pai-pai sets out for the holy land once again.

Anime-only/filler content: Upa thinking he saw Goku, Goku trying to grab the water after Karin finishes some scrolls, Upa laying flowers on his father's grave and Tao realizing how Goku survived, Goku's nightmare and looking into the Present Pot.

Episode 63 - Son Goku’s Counterattack
Dub title: The Return of Goku / Goku Returns!
Originally aired 20th of May 1987

Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa


Arriving in the holy land, Tao Pai-pai attacks Upa in order to learn the location of the Four-Star Ball. Tao Pai-pai loses patience with Upa, who won’t say anything, and tries to kill him, but that’s when Goku comes running in! Goku and Tao Pai-pai confront each other once again! This time, the powered up Goku has a firm advantage!! After realizing that Goku has obtained more power through the legendary Super Holy Water, Tao Pai-pai climbs the tower in order to drink the water himself. However, Goku doesn’t try to follow him.

Anime-only/filler content: The opening scene with Red and Black, Bulma, Roshi and the Scout Plane, two added scenes in the Goku vs Tao fight, Tao climbing up Karin's Tower.

Episode 64 - The End of Tao Pai-pai
Dub title: The Last of Mercenary Tao / The End Of Tao Pai Pai!
Originally aired 27th of May 1987

Episode director: Minoru Okazaki
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda


Having climbed Karin Tower, Tao Pai-pai tries to get the Super Holy Water by threatening Karin-sama. However, Karin-sama successfully tricks Tao Pai-pai, and sends him back to the surface! After descending back to the holy land, Tao Pai-pai unleashes a violent attack, but Goku is unharmed!! Tao Pai-pai turns pale and uses a bomb, but Goku kicks it back and Tao Pai-pai ends up blowing himself away. After gathering the four Dragon Balls, Goku flies off to the Red Ribbon Army Headquarters to gather the remaining ones!!

Anime-only/filler content: The first fifteen minutes, including Dragon Radar jamming shenanagins and Tao climbing up Karin's Tower to become more powerful, Karin watching the battle via the Present Pot. (Written by Shunichi Yukimuro)

Episode 65 - Go, Goku! The Assault Begins
Dub title: Confront the Red Ribbon Army / Goku Travels To Red Ribbon Headquarters
Originally aired 10th of June 1987

Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama


Using the Dragon Radar that was stolen from Goku, Captain Violet returns to Red Ribbon Army Headquarters with a second Dragon Ball. Commander Red is not aware of Tao Pai-pai’s defeat, and looks on in good humor as the signal from the four Dragon Balls Goku is carrying approach on the radar. Meanwhile, Goku’s friends at Kame House use Bulma’s reconnaissance mecha to learn that Goku’s target is the Red Ribbon Army’s stronghold! In order to rescue Goku, Bulma and the others hurry to the Red Ribbon Army Headquarters in Yamcha’s plane!

Anime-only/filler content: The first five-and-a-half minutes, including Red playing golf and Colonel Violet finding the Seven Star Ball in the river and escaping the Pak Pak tribe AND Bulma working on the Scout Plane, Roshi using the Scout Plane for voyeurism, the recap of Goku opposing the Red Ribbon Army to the awesome insert song. (Written by Toshiki Inoue)

-

Interesting trivia:
  • When Bora is explaining the legend of Karin's Tower, in the anime he added that only one person has ever been able to climb it, something never mentioned in the manga. This may be to account for Karin revealing that Roshi did it sometime before, although the Bora scene also states this happened hundreds of years prior, further implying Roshi's incredible age.
  • In the manga, Upa wasn't named until his father told him to stay behind him while he engaged with Tao. Bora wasn't named at all!
  • Realistically, the height of Karin's Tower should be high enough that Goku suffers from lack of air and sun exposure (this not even mentioning God's Lookout).
  • Goku looking into the Past Pot is another instance of Toei inserting Chichi into the story, long before Toriyama would do so himself at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.
  • Goku does look into a pot in the manga, but it's a perfectly normal pot, and he only looks inside to check if Karin is in it.
  • Karin's fur colour has been depicted inconsistently: Toriyama colours him brown as he was inspired by his cat, while the anime and Full Color edition of the manga has him white.
  • The Harmony Gold dub named Karin "Whiskers the Wonder Cat".
  • Karin notably doesn't recognise Goku's Nyoi-bo despite it being the connector between his Tower and God's Lookout (this reveal wouldn't be written until a year after Karin's first episode aired).
  • It would later be revealed during the Piccolo Daimao arc that Karin actually DOES have water that increases the drinker's strength. Perhaps this was the inspiration for the original legend?
  • Senzu Beans initially did not have any healing properties, they just made you full. They wouldn't gain this facet until Goku is taken to Karin's Tower by Yajirobe after being beaten by Tambourine.
  • On that note, Goku has a meal with Upa just three days after eating a senzu bean, even though Karin said the senzu should keep him sated for over three times that long.
  • While the Scout Plane does originate from the manga, it wouldn't appear until Goku gets closer to the Red Ribbon Army HQ, and the manga never shows it before that point.
  • The recap of Goku and the Red Ribbon Army as he approaches their HQ is the only instance of Funimation keeping a full insert song in their dub of Dragon Ball. Blue Water's dub cut the entire sequence, instead ending the episode with the narrator giving his monologue on the shot just before.
Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Filler breakdowns and Dragon Ball logo provided, and trivia co-written, by KBABZ.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6260
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 11:47 am
[*]Goku looking into the Past Pot is another instance of Toei inserting Chichi into the story, long before Toriyama would do so himself at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.
I wonder if Toei just really wanted to push Chi Chi as Goku's "girlfriend" not that they forced it on Toriyama or anything
[*]On that note, Goku has a meal with Upa just three days after eating a senzu bean, even though Karin said the senzu should keep him sated for over three times that long.
It is Goku though.

[*]The recap of Goku and the Red Ribbon Army as he approaches their HQ is the only instance of Funimation keeping a full insert song in their dub of Dragon Ball
Other than those other three times later on.


Anywho the Tao Pai Pai conflict is probably my favorite portion of the Red Ribbon arc. Goku's training with Karin is another variation of "I was secretly training you and sharpening your skills this whole time" trope similar to Roshi's Kame Sennin training as oppose to Kaio and Mr.Popo's more straight forward training. I do think it's interesting that "the mystical power up water" would be subverted here but then played straight in the Piccolo Daimao saga.

With a Burning Passion Defeat the Red Ribbon Army is a banger and I'm still annoyed that Funimation screwed it up by having the narrator blare over the song. Easily in the top 10 worst moments of the og Dragon Ball Funi dub.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:07 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 pm I wonder if Toei just really wanted to push Chi Chi as Goku's "girlfriend" not that they forced it on Toriyama or anything
Very possibly.
Definitely sounds like a Toei thing to do.
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 pm It is Goku though.
True. :lol:
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 pm Other than those other three times later on.
Wait, really?
Which ones?
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 pm Anywho the Tao Pai Pai conflict is probably my favorite portion of the Red Ribbon arc. Goku's training with Karin is another variation of "I was secretly training you and sharpening your skills this whole time" trope similar to Roshi's Kame Sennin training as oppose to Kaio and Mr.Popo's more straight forward training. I do think it's interesting that "the mystical power up water" would be subverted here but then played straight in the Piccolo Daimao saga.

With a Burning Passion Defeat the Red Ribbon Army is a banger and I'm still annoyed that Funimation screwed it up by having the narrator blare over the song. Easily in the top 10 worst moments of the og Dragon Ball Funi dub.
It's not my favourite era of Dragon Ball, but it's really solid. :)
The "divine water" being revealed to be real later on is... Eh, I dunno how I feel about it. It's a bit hackneyed in some ways.

And agreed about the damn narrator yammering on over the song. Utterly ridiculous, if you ask me.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6260
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:21 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:07 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:01 pm I wonder if Toei just really wanted to push Chi Chi as Goku's "girlfriend" not that they forced it on Toriyama or anything
Very possibly.
Definitely sounds like a Toei thing to do.
They definitely played up Chi Chi and Goku's relationship as more genuine than the manga. Not to the extent of Funimation's "my heart knows what my mouth doesn't"
Wait, really?
Which ones?
Dragon Ball Densetsu in episode 76

Blue Travelers in episode 78

Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 86.



The "divine water" being revealed to be real later on is... Eh, I dunno how I feel about it. It's a bit hackneyed in some ways.
I think Goku's tribulations and test of character prevented it from being too hackneyed. At least it wasn't like "Here Goku drink this water it will increase your strength by 10 fold"
And agreed about the damn narrator yammering on over the song. Utterly ridiculous, if you ask me.


Imagine the thought process of that

Barry Watson: Oh crap, this Japanese cartoon that we agreed to keep the Japanese music has people singing in Japanese! Crap, just have Brice Armstrong talk over it LOUDLY and Non-Stop

User avatar
SuperSaiyaManZ94
I Live Here
Posts: 2714
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:31 pm

Them drowning out the song with Armstrong's narration made no sense either, it appears FUNi just couldn't seem to let a single moment pass without wall to wall dialogue even though they decided to let DB keep the original score rather than force a replacement soundtrack (minus the BLT dub) onto it like how was done with Z and GT.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

Matches Malone
Banned
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 am

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Matches Malone » Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:23 pm

I think the arc as a whole would've been a lot better if it skipped the first half and just started here (which is what I do). The pacing is a lot better going from the 21st Tenkaichi, to this part, then to the 22nd Tenkaichi. Everything before Korin's tower really slows things down, especially in the anime. Toriyama himself even said getting through it was a drag.

I think Tao was a great villain, and it was a nice change to see someone finally take down Goku. Tao's definitely an underrated villain, so I was really happy to see him make a comeback during the 23rd Tenkaichi. I also like how he's tied into Tien's story, I just wish we could've gotten more interactions between them.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6260
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:21 pm

Matches Malone wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:23 pm I think the arc as a whole would've been a lot better if it skipped the first half and just started here (which is what I do).
I don't. Not only do I enjoy most of the Red Ribbon Army arc (the pirate cave part being the only part I don't care for and even then it's most of the Z levels of horrendous pacing n the show than the concept) but starting the arc with Commander Red putting a hit out on Goku just seems random. You need some time to establish that Goku has been a thorn in the Red Ribbon's side and that the Red Ribbon army is an evil paramilitary that will do things like plan to execute villagers after they find the dragon ball.
The pacing is a lot better going from the 21st Tenkaichi, to this part, then to the 22nd Tenkaichi.
Rushed doesn't create for better pacing.

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:18 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:21 pm Dragon Ball Densetsu in episode 76

Blue Travelers in episode 78

Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 86.
I recall The Travelers and am ashamed I forgot about it, but I don't remember the other two's appearances.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6260
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:26 pm

KBABZ wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:18 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 12:21 pm Dragon Ball Densetsu in episode 76

Blue Travelers in episode 78

Mezase Tenkaichi in episode 86.
I recall The Travelers and am ashamed I forgot about it, but I don't remember the other two's appearances.
The other two were the ones that Funimaton didn't fuck up :lol: Maybe it didn't stand out because they didn't screw up the other two?

Granted what they did with Blue Travelers wasn't as bad as what they did with a Burning Passion, but Nadolny's Goky endless chatter clashed horribly with the nice sentimental somber and soothing music. But at least you could hear the song most of the time.

User avatar
KBABZ
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5180
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
Location: The tallest tower in West City

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:06 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:26 pm Granted what they did with Blue Travelers wasn't as bad as what they did with a Burning Passion, but Nadolny's Goky endless chatter clashed horribly with the nice sentimental somber and soothing music. But at least you could hear the song most of the time.
IMO The Blue Travelers was worse from a storytelling perspective. You didn't need dialogue for that at all, it's meant to be a moment of quiet, warm reflection as you see these two friends having fun. The dialogue is too loud and, crucially, there are no sound effects, so it just feels bizarre to watch.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6260
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:31 pm

KBABZ wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:06 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:26 pm Granted what they did with Blue Travelers wasn't as bad as what they did with a Burning Passion, but Nadolny's Goky endless chatter clashed horribly with the nice sentimental somber and soothing music. But at least you could hear the song most of the time.
IMO The Blue Travelers was worse from a storytelling perspective. You didn't need dialogue for that at all, it's meant to be a moment of quiet, warm reflection as you see these two friends having fun. The dialogue is too loud and, crucially, there are no sound effects, so it just feels bizarre to watch.


I mean, the way they handled both were bad. Like you said the scene with Blue Travelers was suppose to be a quiet scene with no dialog. And the dub can't shut up even with music playing so we have to hear Goku's endless talking. It kills the emotion of the scene but at least you can hear the nice soft song playing even if Funimation is doing everything in their power to ruin the mood because we can't have the characters be silent and enjoy the artwork and music? It seemed Funimation knew to keep a scene silent if silence was part of the joke (like the audience waiting for the dog MC at the world tournament to say something) but didn't believe in silence if it was for dramatic or emotional effect.

With Burning Passion, Defeat the Red Ribbon Army, some narration wouldn't have killed the vibe or anything but it's so extensive and blares over the song it took me a minute to realize music was even playing and then I still had to listen closely because I wasn't sure if Funimation had left the song as is or did an English "translation" I guess the uh nod to the English version of Mystical Adventure's lyrics in the narration was nice at least?

MyVisionity
Banned
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:51 pm
Location: US

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Apr 01, 2020 10:51 pm

Karin is a nice addition to the series. I like his place and imagine what it might be like to live there. I like the way he does the dishes! The senzu or "sage beans" prove to be a lasting resource in the series, and it's interesting to watch it evolve.

The pots of past, present, and future was interesting. I particularly liked the foreshadowing with the Future pot. I had previously assumed that the centipede(?) creature was supposed to represent Piccolo Daimao, but I notice that this episode aired prior to his introduction in the manga. Perhaps it was a reference to Uranai Baba's line about how Goku would "save the entire world" one day, and that creature was just a stand-in for whatever the writers imagined Toriyama might come up with.

I'm not a fan of the filler of Tao climbing up Karin Tower to get the Holy Water. It's too silly, and also disrupts the flow of the battle and messes with the writing. Overall however the Taopaipai fight is one of the series' best and the artwork and animation is great.

The gag with Roshi spying on the girl only to catch the guy taking a dump is probably one of my favorites.

I like that one bit after Yamcha lands on the island and tells Lunch to hurry up and get on the plane, and she tells him "Shut up, don't rush me!". Furuya Tohru and Koyama Mami were married and divorced before the show started I believe, so I like to think that the actors are speaking out of character during that exchange :).

That insert song at the end is indeed awesome and fitting. It does make me wonder though what it was about the Red Ribbon era that made the producers use so many insert songs. Afterwards they would only appear occasionally if not rarely. Was it the series' popularity at the time? An experimental phase?

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:23 pm

Episodes 61 and 62. Here we go! :)

Heh. Y'know, I forgot how much Karin Tower is just "Snake Way but done faster, better, and earlier". :lol:

Oh hey!! I forgot about Goku seeing Baba, an oddly-coloured "Masked Fighter", and stock footage of the Dragon Ball snooker shot from the ED.
I guess the manga was already at the Baba storyline by now?... I always forget that the manga was still reasonably ahead at this point.

Man, I LOVE Karin.
... I kinda think the English dubs lost some of his fun crypticism and weirdness. Particularly Funi's; Roger Rhodes played him much more mysteriously, and mystical-feeling in the BW dub.
I really love the way he plays games with Goku, though. It's great. His mischievous as hell.
I have half a mind to say a perfect casting for him would have been William Hartnell, but really, I always thought he'd have been better suited to Kaio and the narrator; his voice had a similar sound and feel, and I think his performance in those roles would've been great. 'Course, he retired after Doctor Who, and died in the early '70s, so it was never to be, but... I can dream, dammit!! :lol:

The Tao raw egg gag is perfect. I love it.

Oh hey, Karin reads Goku's mind. Forgot about that. I guess that somewhat sets up Goku reading Kuririn's mind on Namek, and his sort of psychic way of seeing events helpfully recapped in his dreams in the Cyborgs arc.
I wonder... Is the implication that Goku learns to somewhat read peoples' minds around here onwards, and that's part of how he is able to predict his opponents' moves and fight so well?
In any case, it's clear that the lesson Karin is passing on is largely based around predicting the moves of your opponent. Presumably the mind-reading would be part of this?

Of course, either way, learning to read his opponents' moves ends up being one of the defining things about Goku as a fighter. Yet another one of his trademarks that he took 100% from one of his many teachers.

Speaking of Goku's teachers, Karin says one person drank the water before, 300 years ago -- Roshi. Karin himself is apparently a little over 800 years old. Interesting. I wonder how old Roshi really is.

KBABZ just made me realise that Karin is Dragon Ball's Yoda. And he is TOTALLY Yoda.

Goku climbing up the tower for three hours, still angry, to confront Karin about throwing his ball off reminds me of my favourite Looney Tunes gag.
Speaking of Looney Tunes gags, Karin's fish tank eyes is also a great joke.

Also hooray for more evening and night lighting in these episodes! :)

Wait, Tao kept the pillar? HE KEPT THE PILLAR? Holy shit. I love it. :D

Man, these episodes are so good!!
I always forget just how good the Red Ribbon arc suddenly gets when Blue shows up, and how it just stays this good for so long. :D
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6260
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:56 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 10:23 pm
I guess the manga was already at the Baba storyline by now?... I always forget that the manga was still reasonably ahead at this point.
As I recall Legend of Shen Long had premiere just right before Goku summoned Shen Long in the manga at the end of the Baba arc so by this point they would have been at the 22nd Budokai in the manga?
... I kinda think the English dubs lost some of his fun crypticism and weirdness.
The problem with the Funi dub is Chris Sabat is doing this stupid Harvey Fierstein impression (which was a carry over from the Ocean dub)
that is totally unfitting for a wise mystical sage (that just so happens to be a cat)

No comment on his Blue Water dub voice as I haven't heard it but I doubt it could be any worse or miscast.

His appearance as a white cat is suppose to be deceptive enough he doesn't need to sound like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D65AKPgJpBk

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 10:42 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:56 pm As I recall Legend of Shen Long had premiere just right before Goku summoned Shen Long in the manga at the end of the Baba arc so by this point they would have been at the 22nd Budokai in the manga?
I see.
Interesting.
MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:56 pm The problem with the Funi dub is Chris Sabat is doing this stupid Harvey Fierstein impression (which was a carry over from the Ocean dub)
that is totally unfitting for a wise mystical sage (that just so happens to be a cat)

No comment on his Blue Water dub voice as I haven't heard it but I doubt it could be any worse or miscast.

His appearance as a white cat is suppose to be deceptive enough he doesn't need to sound like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D65AKPgJpBk
lol

In fairness, Ocean would recast the role to Ted Cole for the Westwood dub, and he had a much more wise, mystical sound in his take (BTVA page for Karin in Z).
Roger Rhodes' take in the BW dub was a little goofy, but certainly more fitting than the Funimation dubs. (BTVA page)
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4386
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 1:44 pm

And I'm all caught up. :)

It's interesting how mixed the filler can be.

On one hand, the stuff with Karin and Tao is great, as are the shenanigans with Goku being so relaxed about it all, eating, sleeping, etc. and really stressing Oopa out, and there's the Black Nimbus gag, which is great.
On the other hand, there's the stuff about the radar jam, which is transparently just an excuse for Roshi to harass Bulma more. And I noticed quite clearly that the last time we cut back to them when there's this going on, when Bulma makes the jam-proof radar, the scene basically completely reuses animation from one of the previous cuts to the antics at Kame House... So it's not just annoying, bad filler, it's also very lazy. >_>

Still, great episodes overall. And the "Defeat The Red Ribbon Army!" insert song is a GREAT way to cap off the Tao portion of the story, and set us up for Goku storming HQ!! :D
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

Dragon Ball Ireland
I Live Here
Posts: 3590
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Sligo, Ireland

Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 14 - DB episodes 61-65

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:40 pm

Caught up myself, not a bad bunch of episodes. Your really hooked by this point.

Episode 61 - Karin-sama of Karin Tower

Entertaining episode as we see Goku having a new mentor - albeit less of a combat mentor but more a mental one who tests him in other ways. From the beginning climbing Karin Tower without looking down is a challenge for Goku, but after some time he manages to reach the Karin's chamber without an extraneous amount of effort. The fact Goku never expected the hermit living in this tower was a cat is classic Toriyama subversion, even moreso that such a creature could pose the kind of challenges it does like playing hard to get. Goku is further surprised to know that Karin knows Muten Roshi and that he was the one who retrieved the water. Karin knowing Goku was Muten Roshi's student by his moves was a nice touch, as was Oopa showing concern for Goku from down below after just meeting him.

Episode 62 - Really?! The Effects of the Super Holy Water

After having his own expectations subverted seeing Goku trying to give Karin a taste of his own medicine by trying to fool him with the afterimage in an effort to steal the water. Ironically Karin is the one that knows Goku's weakness by teasing him with food that he chases like a Dog and telling him one senzu bean will be enough. Also, perhaps knowing Goku's Dragon Ball means something to him Karin throws it down the tower, although Goku manages to run down and come back up. We see some mental training here as Goku tries to steal the water from behind Karin but fails to read his movements and breathing. Additionally Goku sees more visions of his friends after awaking from his sleep.

Episode 63 - Son Goku’s Counterattack

Ominous vibe at the onset of this episode with Commander Red watching from afar and Tao Pai Pai tries to kill Oopa, ruthlessly treats him like nothing. Goku however manages to take on Tao with his increased strength, once more owing everything to his grandpa Gohan, such as saying it saved him from the Dodonpa. Much to Tao's misfortune he assumed the idea that climbing Karin tower and drinking the Super Holy Water can make its drinker stronger was a myth. We see more of Bulma's smarts as she builds a surveillance device for finding Goku and a new dragon radar. Of course Muten Roshi has his own thoughts that he rightly gets a smack for quite humorously. The remainder of Goku and Tao's fight is entertaining with one gaining the upper hand over the other and vice versa, and once more Goku can rely on his trusty Nyoibo to help the situation as it tears Tao's sword. The episode still leaves us anticipated with Tao narrowly escaping and running up the Karin tower.

Episode 64 - The End of Tao Pai-Pai

As Goku rests before fighting Tao once again, Oopa comes across as a loyal new friend treating him to food and listening to the wacky stories Goku mentions in his sleep. Bulma also shows concern for Goku, much to her ire as another one of Roshi's stash of porn is exposed. Once Tao reaches the top of Karin tower we see more of his tactical nature come out as he tries to destroy the Heaven stone pillar with the Dodonpa after drinking the Super Holy Water. In a humorous manner we see Karin's own motives as he sneezes to make Tao fall while he was riding down Karin tower. Once Goku and Tao begin their rematch Tao shows his increased strength, however the former comes back after being kicked into the ground. Tao tries to play on Goku's naivety by begging forr mercy and crying only to thrrow a bomb towards him, which Goku kicks back killing him. With this great fight over with Goku sets off on the Kinto Un leaving the episode on a high note.

Episode 65 - Go, Goku! The Assault Begins

Another serviceable bridging episode, not much plot progression but it has some enjoyable moments. In the beginning we see the more laid back aspects of Commander Red's character as he chills playing Golf while other Red Ribbon Army officers search for the Dragon Balls. Bulma demonstrates her genius by getting a signal on Muten Roshi's television from her surveillance device that was used to find Goku. The running gag of Muten Roshi having ulterior motives whenever he is in any scene that involves women in any way is rightly dismissed by a shot of Goku appearing on the TV. Overall as the episode leaves on an optimistic note with a montage of Goku's journeys and fights, which leaves a lot of excitement forr the battles to come.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

Post Reply