Watched Dragon Ball Z as a kid - interested in rewatching the series. What series/versions/releases should I pick/skip?

[90sDBZ]

For the DVDs that are overpriced(I.E. Frieza Revealed) if you've got a VCR i'd recommend getting the VHS counterparts instead as those tend to be a lot cheaper(Regardless of whether you are getting the uncut or edited versions) and the picture quality is more or less the same as the DVDs(and i've heard the audio quality is actually slightly better).

I actually finished collecting the singles back in 2018, although I went with the Australian Madman versions for a few as the Funi equivalents were overpriced. The only gripe I have with the Madman versions is that they only have one recap per disc, although interestingly they have "Stand by for Dragon Ball Z" from the early syndicated Ocean broadcasts.

But yeah the VHS versions are a good alternate solution, and you don't have to worry about scratched discs (I had a couple of them when collecting the DVDs). And I think someone once said the VHS tapes actually keep Dale Kelly as the narrator for a little bit longer than the DVDs.

[Robo4900]

Robo, do you really have to do this in EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION about modern Funimation dubs?!

If people start talking about "kai's dub is really good" or other such things, then yes, I do. To me, it's a stupid view that's entirely propagated by people nostalgic for the old dub finally having a version they can point to that isn't entirely without merit to the more hardcore Japanese-focussed fans, so they over-emphasise everything Funi got right that time around, while trying to brush aside all its flaws. It's an incredibly annoying thing to constantly see here, and until such a time as it goes away, I will never cease challenging it.

People come to Kanzenshuu to find informed discussion and debate (note that this thread specifically is OP asking which versions are good to watch). So, I think it does a disservice to the discussion for me to not point out that the praise of Kai is not a universal thing and that, to many -- such as myself -- it's merely "an improvement over the original shitty version."
If someone (such as OP) comes here to find out which versions are best, obviously they should hear both sides. So, I argue my side just as the Funi fans argue theirs. Then OP can come to their own decision based on what they've heard. That's how research, discussion, and debate works, usually.

If you can't handle this criticism of your favoured version, maybe you need to take a step back, buddy.

Especially given how overblown and inconsequential the little quibbles are in the Kai dub.

Ah yes, because some lines being completely rewritten to not resemble what was originally said in Japanese, random jokes getting thrown in even in serious moments, and all the other shit that Funi were so heavily criticised for in their 1995-2008 dubs, aren't a problem in Kai because they do it less... Because doing something a bit less means it's no longer an issue?

Sorry, but this is bullshit.

I went into this in detail in my long post about why Funi Kai is not all it's cracked up to be, but to put it simply: Yes, Funi Kai is a lot better than their old dubs, but it's still loaded with shit (the judo line, the smelling salts, "Strong boy", the entire fucking TFS scene, "I've totally pwn'd you in this fight!!", "Wroonnnnnnnng", just to name a few. These deviations constantly pop up, throughout the run), it's still poorly-written (people like ABED disagree, but I stand by this 100%), it's still got weird issues like all the attack names suddenly changing 30 episodes into the run (which has only got dumber since it happened, since Funi has had no shortage of opportunities to fix it), some TV edit lines still exist in the uncut version...

Like, Funi Kai is a serviceable dub. I've said this countless times. If you can't watch subbed, it removes that barrier to entry, and lets you just watch the show. But it's deeply flawed in numerous ways that, not only did Funi not fix, but which got WORSE as they went on. Again, Chris Sabat outright said Funi are deliberately adding more deviations, jokes, etc. in Super. Yes, they decided that, for Super, they WANT to deliberately go against all the positive "We're doing it accurately this time!" talk they leaned so heavily into when talking up their work on Kai...

But, obviously you like Funi Kai, and thus any criticisms with it are affronts to your status as a fan, so you must argue that all the criticisms are invalid, overblown quibbles. Because of course, they must be. Otherwise a thing you like has LEGITIMATE FLAWS. And that CAN'T be the case, because it's PERFECT. So any criticisms must be BAD, or INVALID, because otherwise you like a BAD thing and that's WRONG because you LIKE it therefore it is FLAWLESS!!
... Seriously, I never understood this attitude. A thing you like is flawed in various ways. You can still enjoy it for what it is. I openly admit that the Saban dub is shitty in various ways, and that Star Wars Episode III is shitty in various ways too... I still enjoy the hell out of them, because I'm a fucking adult.

When you get to the point where you're telling other people how they're experience actually went and how they feel, maybe you should take a step back.

You're accusing me of gaslighting here (insiting someone's experience isn't real, and something else is the relaity), and for that, I can only say that you're acting very childish in saying this. I told ABED that his attachment to castings he's used to likely clouds his judgement on them. Since when was it controversial to say that nostalgia changes your view on something? Since when was "Your nostalgic attachment to these things influences your view" a bad thing to say?

... Maybe you should take a step back, man. Clearly you have issues with the fact I have different views to you. I suggest you walk away before you say something you regret.

[jjgp1112]

My man, you just balked at being accused of gaslighting a paragraph after QUADRUPLING DOWN on gaslighting. You went on one hell of a psychoanalysis based on a three sentence post. Shit, in sentence one you said thinking the Kai dub is good is a "stupid view"

You're using people's nostalgic value of something as a way to discredit their arguments and completely dismiss their opinions of something you don't see as having merit. How else are we supposed to take that as anything but a negative in this context?

The "you're too nostalgic" talking point is the single laziest argument I always see propagated here. The irony of course being that we're all grown men talking about a cartoon we liked when we were kids.

If you want to talk about standards for a dub, here's the way I look at it - yes, I prefer accuracy. There's a reason I watch dubs with Japanese subtitles on. That being said, the mere act of dubbing a show already drastically alters a lot of cultural context of a show that's just as important as the content itself. So when it comes to jokes and other punching up of the script? As someone in the creative field I really couldn't care less as long as it's entertaining and doesn't actually change anything that matters. Plus, it's perspective. Am I really going to lose sleep over Dr. Morishita making an HFIL joke in a gag episode? Or Goku sining Cha La Head Cha La? Probably not.

Obviously people's thoughts on that differ, but there's really no law when it comes to something like dubs outside of a "don't change the story" baseline.

[ABED]

Hulu has both original Dragon Ball and GT subbed if you don't mind a few commercials.

Unfortunately Dragon Ball at least (and I assume GT) are set expire in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the heads up. I have 11 episodes left of Dragon Ball (first time watching the show start to finish - I've really enjoyed it!). Guess GT will have to wait for some other time.

Just get the free 2 weeks subscription to FUNiNow. You should be able to watch the entire series by then.

[Robo4900]

You're using people's nostalgic value of something as a way to discredit their arguments and completely dismiss their opinions of something you don't see as having merit. How else are we supposed to take that as anything but a negative in this context?
The "you're too nostalgic" talking point is the single laziest argument I always see propagated here. The irony of course being that we're all grown men talking about a cartoon we liked when we were kids.

Either you haven't read my posts, or you've only skimmed them.

Yes, I point out nostalgic attachment. Yes, I am using "you're too nostalgic" as an argument for why people who like Funimation's oldschool dubs aren't the best people to recommend a version of Dragon Ball to watch. Because Funimation has always failed to faithfully adapt Dragon Ball into English in their dubbing, and to my estimation, the only people who stick by it in the hardcore fandom are too nostalgically attached to admit the flaws in the thing they like, and thus their view isn't useful for someone looking to get into the show properly. It may come off as lazy to you, but much like how "My favourite Doctor is Tom Baker" is a cliché opinion, "Your nostalgia is blinding you to the faults of the thing you like" is so frequently a factor in these kinds of discussions, that it becomes a cliché.
It's a cliché, but it's a cliché for a reason.
And of course, clichés feel lazy. But sometimes, there's a reason they're clichés. See also: The lazy cliché of sad music in the key of D minor.

So, I employ this cliché -- I mention nostalgia as a factor for why you may hold a belief, and thus why your opinion is ultimately yours alone, and not useful in this case, and you accuse me of gaslighting people. Fucking GASLIGHTING people. For voicing an opinion on Funi's dubbing, and pointing out that nostalgia is a factor. GASLIGHTING. You couldn't write this shit.

The mere act of dubbing a show already drastically alters a lot of cultural context of a show that's just as important as the content itself.

Sure. Much like how a translation of a book, or a video game, or whatever else does the same. And ultimately, any translation does have to aim to be the best version of itself it can be, so it's okay if the script adaptor has to find a loose equivalent to something, or drop some text to subtext, move some lines around a bit, etc. to make it work better in English...

So when it comes to jokes and other punching up of the script? As someone in the creative field I really couldn't care less as long as it's entertaining and doesn't actually change anything that matters.

Now, this is the bullshit.

What I'm reading here is that you're saying "Dubbing fundamentally changes some aspects of the translation, therefore it's okay to completely rewrite random parts of the scripts, completely drop and rearrange character motivations and mystical subtext, have your terminology suddenly completely change after 30 episodes, randomly drop in censorship of things in an uncut dub, or make whatever other changes you feel like, as long as the end result is entertaining."

You're taking the reasonable, uncontroversial observation that translation changes a work, then shoehorning in "therefore, it follows that any changes you make, as long as they are entertaining, are good." These things don't connect, man.

You're entitled to your opinion.
I maintain that above all in these discussions, and clearly from how your tone comes off, this needs to be said.

But, I think your opinion is entirely based off you trying to justify liking something you're nostalgic for despite its immense flaws. Rather than resolve that translation errors are, just that, errors, you've come to decide that these "flaws" are just a fact of translation, because translation inherently changes something. So, in for a penny, in for a pound. But I think that's a ridiculous attitude.

There's no problem with liking something. But trying to sell someone on why "no really, The Phantom Menace is actually very good! jar-jar is very funny!" is ridiculous. It's perfectly fine to like it, and sure, present your views on what works about that film (personally, I actually think there is a lot to talk about the good in that film, but that's a discussion for another day), but don't be surprised when someone shows up and says "This is a bad take, and you're entitled to your opinion, but you're too stuck to nostalgia to present a useful view to a newbie." And that's been my point from the moment I started in this thread.
Yes, you're allowed to like Funi's stuff. As this forum's resident gatekeeper of what you are allowed to like, I decree that you are allowed to like it.
... But just because you like it, that doesn't mean it's the version for everyone. Nor does it mean it's actually all that good. And to my estimation, if someone is looking to experience Dragon Ball, not Funimation's "LET'S MAKE A HARDCORE SATURDAY MORNING CARTOON FOR AMERICAN KIDS YEAAHHHH!!" show, but Akira Toriyama & Toei Animation's Dragon Ball... Then Funimation's various presentations of it are shit (well... Kai is serviceable, but... Most are shit). And much as you may enjoy these wildly different adaptations of the original, they really don't reflect what the original is well enough to recommend, in my view.

And if that's gaslighting, then I'm a starfruit.

Plus, it's perspective. Am I really going to lose sleep over Dr. Morishita making an HFIL joke in a gag episode? Or Goku sining Cha La Head Cha La? Probably not.

And here, you cross the breaking point of this. You've gone from generally presenting a controversial opinion, to ignoring all the examples I've pointed out, and instead presenting your own examples, of deviations that are, by your estimation, and likely in the estimation of many others, quite minor, to make yourself seem far more reasonable, and using that to say "See! It's not so bad!! What is this fucking gaslighter talking about???"

It's the ol' trick of controlling the narrative. Dunno if you intended this, but it's a ridiculous strategy to take.

Obviously people's thoughts on that differ, but there's really no law when it comes to something like dubs outside of a "don't change the story" baseline.

So 4Kids' dub of One Piece is A-OK? Thanks for the recommendation, I'll be sure to check it out.

[jjgp1112]

You're really gonna have to stop inserting an entire novel into our mouths when we have these discussions. It's almost completely impossible to even talk about this with you when you make gargantuan-leaps into strawmen arguments.

[Robo4900]

You're really gonna have to stop inserting an entire novel into our mouths when we have these discussions. It's almost completely impossible to even talk about this with you when you make gargantuan-leaps into strawmen arguments.

Sorry, I'll switch to posting audiobooks from now on.

On a serious note, if you don't want to engage with my long posts, you can just... Not respond.
This half-measure of "I don't want to respond to you, but I'm going to accuse you of gaslighting and strawmaning, and tell you to post shorter so I can more conveniently dismiss everything you're saying" helps no one. It's mildly frustrating, but it's conversationally useless.

[jjgp1112]

I'm not telling you to make shorter posts, I'm telling you not to project onto people so much.

Anyway: I don't think changes are a fundamental part of translation. At least, to a reasonable extent (for instance Western culture turns King Kai from a guy who makes jokes in inappropriate situations to "lame pun guy'). I just don't think the changes you've discussed ad nauseum actually matter at all. I seriously COULD NOT CARE LESS about jokes and dumb things like that, because they're not very important.

My priority, first and foremost, is to be entertained by what I'm watching. I don't care about Bulma's judo. I don't care about Ox King wanting Chi-Chi' to use smelling salts. I don't care about Vegeta going to see Yamcha. I'm hardly even thinking about these scenes to begin with.

Would I rather these scenes be what they originally were? I mean, probably; but keep in mind I don't actually have a preference either way. If I like the change, I like the change-simple as that. I watch these things as shows, not dubs. There's no circular notion of "Oh I need to justify my love of the old dub by liking these changes!" I just really don't care if Funimation decides to turn a throwaway line into a joke, that's all.

Any interpretation of superfluous lines of dialogue that results in something good are welcome to me. I'm never gonna watch the original version anyway.

Someone on here had an analogy. Don't yell about the wolf that just wants to see Yamcha, because people will probably ignore you when that wolf claims Frieza made him who he was. Or wants to make the Donuts (see, I can admit when an inserted joke actually hurts a scene, too)

[Robo4900]

I'm not telling you to make shorter posts, I'm telling you not to project onto people so much.

Except that's literally not what you said.

Anyway: I don't think changes are a fundamental part of translation.

Except that literally is what you said.

... Now who's gaslighting?
(Yes, I know changing your mind isn't gaslighting. I'm just poking fun at you)

I don't care about Bulma's judo. I don't care about Ox King wanting Chi-Chi' to use smelling salts. I don't care about Vegeta going to see Yamcha. I'm hardly even thinking about these scenes to begin with.

So, you don't think these specific examples matter, therefore my point is invalid?

The thing is, my point was never about any specific example, and it's immensely frustrating when your counter is "a couple of these specific cases don't seem that bad", when the point I'm making is "These are a few examples of changes, where literally the entire text of the scene was swapped out; changes like these pop up CONSTANTLY."
And I've even pointed out more "key" scenes like Vegeta saying to Trunks in the Boo arc, before he sacrifices himself, "I just wanted you to be a strong boy, that's why I was so hard on you.", when he said no such thing in the original. I pointed out the TV edit line, where Vegeta murders someone in cold blood in the Androids saga, but Funi added a line that explicitly changes the scene to read that the guy is alive. I pointed out the stupid change in attack names 30 episodes in too. But you've disregarded all this.
So, again, the point is that Funi like to just completely change the entire text of a scene for no reason, and it happens randomly.

So, when you take that and counter with "I don't think that joke was that bad", it's just frustrating, 'cause it feels like you're not actually addressing the point I'm making, you're addressing one or two specific examples I'm using to make that point. Rather than engaging in a conversation where we're working to understand each-other and discuss our views, you're cherry-picking one or two things I said and turning them around to make it look like I'm wrong, sory of giving you a performative "win" in the argument. That's how this comes off to me.

Would I rather these scenes be what they originally were? I mean, probably; but keep in mind I don't actually have a preference either way. If I like the change, I like the change-simple as that. I watch these things as shows, not dubs. There's no circular notion of "Oh I need to justify my love of the old dub by liking these changes!" I just really don't care if Funimation decides to turn a throwaway line into a joke, that's all.
Any interpretation of superfluous lines of dialogue that results in something good are welcome to me. I'm never gonna watch the original version anyway.

Someone on here had an analogy. Don't yell about the wolf that just wants to see Yamcha, because people will probably ignore you when that wolf claims Frieza made him who he was. Or wants to make the Donuts (see, I can admit when an inserted joke actually hurts a scene, too)

And again, here, what I'm seeing is "I don't think changing some jokes is so bad"

Again, I talked about this last post. You take "Funi change stuff constantly", and turn it into "I'm not going to lose sleep over [some examples you've chosen that don't seem so bad]"... And quite literally, you're saying that when you talk about the "Cry wolf" analogy. You're literally saying to me, "Unless you can get some examples that I personally find to be more objectionable, I'm going to assume you're criticising nothing."
(Even though I have pointed out more egregious examples; you just chose to ignore them while dismissing what i'm saying)

My priority, first and foremost, is to be entertained by what I'm watching.

Sure. But maybe try to understand that some people on this forum actually care about seeing the show in some form that vaguely resembles what Toriyama and Toei intended? That hasn't been meddled with in George Lucas fashion after the fact.

Ultimately, what this says to me is that you don't care if Funi's translations are even remotely accurate, as long as they entertain you. But I'll tell you now, that's not something everyone shares. Particularly here in the hardcore fandom, people actually kinda care if the "translation" they're watching likes to just throw out stuff because the script adaptor thinks they can do better than what was originally intended by the creatives in Japan.

[KBABZ]

...this is EXACTLY what I was worried would happen when I posted earlier.

---

You're really gonna have to stop inserting an entire novel into our mouths when we have these discussions.

And yet when Kunzait does it it's fine.

---

Personally I don't like circular arguments that get brought up in every single thread. At a certain point you have to nod to say "we've been here before" and not dive into it again. Nobody learns, nobody is productive.

[Planetnamek]

For the DVDs that are overpriced(I.E. Frieza Revealed) if you've got a VCR i'd recommend getting the VHS counterparts instead as those tend to be a lot cheaper(Regardless of whether you are getting the uncut or edited versions) and the picture quality is more or less the same as the DVDs(and i've heard the audio quality is actually slightly better).

I actually finished collecting the singles back in 2018, although I went with the Australian Madman versions for a few as the Funi equivalents were overpriced. The only gripe I have with the Madman versions is that they only have one recap per disc, although interestingly they have "Stand by for Dragon Ball Z" from the early syndicated Ocean broadcasts.

But yeah the VHS versions are a good alternate solution, and you don't have to worry about scratched discs (I had a couple of them when collecting the DVDs). And I think someone once said the VHS tapes actually keep Dale Kelly as the narrator for a little bit longer than the DVDs.

Really? Interesting, I hadn't heard that bit of trivia before, i'll have to check that out for myself.

I kind of do enjoy the GT rap in a so-bad-its-good kind of way.

[ABED]

It's really interesting seeing it from the other side. At a certain point, all there is to say is you either like something or you don't. Someone badgering you with what they think is objective evidence won't change their opinion.

[jjgp1112]

...this is EXACTLY what I was worried would happen when I posted earlier.

---

You're really gonna have to stop inserting an entire novel into our mouths when we have these discussions.

And yet when Kunzait does it it's fine.

---

Personally I don't like circular arguments that get brought up in every single thread. At a certain point you have to nod to say "we've been here before" and not dive into it again. Nobody learns, nobody is productive.

Like I said, it's not the post length, it's just making all of these assumptions based on a few sentences. I worded it badly trying to be snappy

[Robo4900]

It's really interesting seeing it from the other side. At a certain point, all there is to say is you either like something or you don't. Someone badgering you with what they think is objective evidence won't change their opinion.

The point isn't to change your opinion, only an idiot would be trying to do that; no one changes their opinion by arguing about it on the internet. The point is, and always was, as I have stated SEVERAL times in this thread, to voice my opinion, and thus have both sides of the debate voiced in the thread for the person asking. The OP wants to know what the best way to watch the show is, and I presented my view on that, then proceeded to defend this view when others disagreed, while also providing my thoughts on what some others have to say.

My apologies if you find my opinions offensive, but if you don't want to be "badgered" by someone who wants to offer the other side, just... Don't keep responding yourself?

And maybe take a chill pill for a moment and realise that just because I say a lot of things and respond whenever I'm responded to, that doesn't mean I'm trying to "badger you with what I think is objective evidence to change your opinion." I find it interesting to debate and discuss media. Debating/discussing this stuff is FUN for me. I enjoy it. If I didn't enjoy it, why would I spend so much time chatting with you folks?

[ABED]

I'm actually quite chill about this and also a tad amused. I'm far from offended.

Anyway, if I recall, I don't think you can watch the dub with JPN subtitles. It would be nice to mix and match, but it seems like something you can only do with a physical release. I'm more price sensitive, so that feels like a waste of money for such an experience, but if you have cash to burn...

[Robo4900]

Anyway, if I recall, I don't think you can watch the dub with JPN subtitles. It would be nice to mix and match, but it seems like something you can only do with a physical release. I'm more price sensitive, so that feels like a waste of money for such an experience, but if you have cash to burn...

Depends.

Some streaming sites like iTunes or FuniNow do sometimes just give you the dub and the sub versions as separate entries you have to buy individually, presumably the justification is that their infrastructure can't handle multiple audio tracks, so this is the only way to do it.
Meanwhile, Netflix (as well as any other streaming sites with actually good infrastructure) and physical copies give you both.

I kinda agree with your assessment here; if a streaming option is cheaper, it does seem weird to pay the premium for physical copies for the dub with JPN subs experience... And TBH I always found that viewing option kinda weird anyway?
Especially for a show like Dragon Ball with its... Interesting history of accuracy. Presuming you start with OG DB (which is the correct way to go), you'll find the dub dialogue and the subtitles are often quite significantly at odds.

[MasenkoHA]

assessment here; if a streaming option is cheaper, it does seem weird to pay the premium for physical copies for the dub with JPN subs experience... And TBH I always found that viewing option kinda weird anyway?
Especially for a show like Dragon Ball with its... Interesting history of accuracy. Presuming you start with OG DB (which is the correct way to go), you'll find the dub dialogue and the subtitles are often quite significantly at odds.

It's definitely weird to hear Goku saying "I was just....oh never mind" while the subtitles read "Was not having peepee and balls suppose to be a secret?" I think unless you're trying to compare how different the dub is with the Japanese script there really isn't much else of a reason for watching the dub with subtitles. And I can't imagine that was Funimation's intention, especially since they treat the Japanese dub like a second priority in their season sets.


On second thought, if someone is going to watch the Dragon Ball dub no matter what might as well turn on the subtitles to see how much of the humor is being toned down/removed all together.

[theoriginalbilis]

What is the recommended watch order?
Is everything worthwhile?
Which formats/releases should I look at?
Are there particularly good release versions?

I'd prefer good English dubs and accompanying subtitles.

Most of the recommendations people have already given here are solid (Starting with DB and going through Super, etc....)

The majority of the DVD/Blu-Ray releases are solid enough, except for DBZ itself sadly; most of the in-print releases are a 4:3 TV show cropped into widescreen. You can find DBZ uncropped, either by second-hand copies via online retailers, or via methods. You know what Google is.

If you don't want to spend a lot of money, I'd say use a streaming service like FUNimation or Hulu.

I know you said preferred good English dubs (which the dubs of Kai and Super are good enough, original DB is okay, Z and GT have many problems)...

But Dragon Ball is one of those few franchises where I legitimately recommend at least trying to watch some of it in it's original language. Masako Nozawa's performance as Goku is incredibly endearing and makes much more sense casting-wise when you catch Goku's journey from the beginning. Also, you get to hear Japan's most prominent or famous voice actors grow into the other roles as well.

Let's not forget the original score for DB-DBZ, which starts out sounding very Chinese/wuxia-movie inspired with a little bit of Western thrown in for personality. That score grows and evolves as the story progresses. The American replacement scores for the dubs tried to give each series it's own musical style, which IMO, has fractured the fanbase into most people ignoring original DB, because it doesn't have the "edgy rock/techno" that DBZ had, even through narrative-wise, they're part of the same ongoing story.

Also, even though some of the movies are mediocre, I still recommend watching them in their original language due to Kikuchi composing some of his best pieces for the films; and those compositions were later inserted into the DB/Z TV series.

My feelings are, if you love the story and these characters; you'll view it in the form closest to how the original creators created it. In that case, you could just read the manga! Viz's release of the manga in English is pretty good. And cheaper to collect than the anime for sure. And it's Toriyama's story and art through and through, without any of the extra stuff Toei Animation added or changed.

That's just my two cents. But at the end of the day, you do you. Best of luck! I hope this helped in some way.

[ABED]

And TBH I always found that viewing option kinda weird anyway

If DB is a show you watch multiples times, then it's an interesting way to experience the series once.

[Robo4900]

And TBH I always found that viewing option kinda weird anyway

If DB is a show you watch multiples times, then it's an interesting way to experience the series once.

That's fair.

Personally, it seems like kind of a weird half-measure between watching both the Japanese and dub versions. But I suppose it's quite time efficient if you're looking to determine how the versions differ.