Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

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coola
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Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by coola » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:44 pm

Both Bardock and Trunks Special were one of best DB anime related things, and Toriyama himself said, he would never write anything like this. I know both Toriyama and Torishima criticized Dr. Slump and parts of Dragon Ball anime, but, i feel like DB anime shined at its best, when Toei did their own thing, without trying to emulate Toriyama's work.
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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:48 pm

coola wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:44 pm
Both Bardock and Trunks Special were one of best DB anime related things, and Toriyama himself said, he would never write anything like this. I know both Toriyama and Torishima criticized Dr. Slump and parts of Dragon Ball anime, but, i feel like DB anime shined at its best, when Toei did their own thing, without trying to emulate Toriyama's work.
Those are definitely among the best DB stories. It's worth noting though that the Trunks special is based off a side chapter by Toriyama, although they improved it in multiple areas.

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by Vijay » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:05 pm

I think it's got to do more with the script writers & storyboarders

You can expand the story, adding more layers to it's characters by creating tension, drama & conflicts as in Bardock & Trunks special. They had an emotional connection & felt really "special"

M5: Cooler's Revenge, M6: Return of Cooler, M8 & M13 also belong in the same category for me.

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by ZeroNeonix » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:06 pm

Aside from some sketches here and there, weren't they pretty much doing their own thing in GT? And they may be following a basic guideline from Toriyama now in Super, but as the many differences between the anime and the manga show, that leaves a ton of room for creative license. And their contributions include poorly explained, out of nowhere, transformations that contribute nothing within the narrative. Also, I feel like the manga did a much better job of explaining all of the confusing time traveling that happened in the Zamasu arc.

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by Matches Malone » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:10 pm

Vijay wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:05 pm
M5: Cooler's Revenge, M6: Return of Cooler, M8 & M13 also belong in the same category for me.
I understand movies 5,8, &13, but 6 ? It wasn't a bad movie, but it was definitely weaker than Cooler's first movie and the other 2 you mentioned.

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by Tai Lung » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:13 pm

ZeroNeonix wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:06 pm
Aside from some sketches here and there, weren't they pretty much doing their own thing in GT? And they may be following a basic guideline from Toriyama now in Super, but as the many differences between the anime and the manga show, that leaves a ton of room for creative license. And their contributions include poorly explained, out of nowhere, transformations that contribute nothing within the narrative. Also, I feel like the manga did a much better job of explaining all of the confusing time traveling that happened in the Zamasu arc.
that really depends on arcs

U6 arc anime >>> U6 arc manga

Zamasu arc anime <<< zamasu arc manga

Top arc anime >>> Top arc manga

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by SupremeKai25 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:22 pm

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:13 pm
ZeroNeonix wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:06 pm
Aside from some sketches here and there, weren't they pretty much doing their own thing in GT? And they may be following a basic guideline from Toriyama now in Super, but as the many differences between the anime and the manga show, that leaves a ton of room for creative license. And their contributions include poorly explained, out of nowhere, transformations that contribute nothing within the narrative. Also, I feel like the manga did a much better job of explaining all of the confusing time traveling that happened in the Zamasu arc.
Zamasu arc anime <<< zamasu arc manga
Even that's suuuuper debatable, but let's not get into that.
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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by 10gigtriforce » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:31 pm

Much as a live trunks and bardock specials, the filler was hands down the worst part of the orignal DB to me and while i did enjoy the gohan training filler in z, most of it I didnt. it was not bad just not good. Then gt was their own thing...

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by Vijay » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:39 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:10 pm
Vijay wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:05 pm
M5: Cooler's Revenge, M6: Return of Cooler, M8 & M13 also belong in the same category for me.
I understand movies 5,8, &13, but 6 ? It wasn't a bad movie, but it was definitely weaker than Cooler's first movie and the other 2 you mentioned.
I found M6 to be quite dark. It was eerie, suspenseful & despite it's messed-up 3rd Act, the film packs a punch. I felt it was leagues beyond average DB/DBZ films. As if Cooler's presence admist Big Gere Star's New Namek invasion angle wasn't enuf, the twist of him enhanced as Metal Cooler & subsequent hundreds more like him simply blew my mind...

Ofc, it's just my opinion 😊

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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:51 pm

What was dark about movie 6? It was a pretty generic film.

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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by KorgDTR2000 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:24 pm

Kind of?

I do love the direction Toei took with stuff out in space involving the Saiyans and Freeza's army. The Bardock special of course, but other bits of filler as well.

However, when they were trying to expand on and replicate the closer to home Dragon Ball stuff most of it fell totally flat to me.

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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:08 pm

The Bardock and Trunks specials are definitely some of the best pieces of Dragon Ball material out there, and are both superior to the respective solo stories that Toriyama did for these characters, but Toei’s track record with the franchise in general is pretty mixed.

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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:33 pm

General Blue. Obotchaman. I rest my case.
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
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Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
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19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:14 am

Ignoring Inoue Toshiki being...Inoue Toshiki, I love when Toei Animation would go in their own direction. I think the real issue is that they were afraid of contradicting the original comic after the first few years. This is their biggest problem, because it means killing genuinely good ideas that they came up with all for the sake of jerking off the original comic. Case-in-point: Gohan's training and growth. Nishio and Koyama should have been more willing to ignore Toriyama's comic and work based off of their development of Gohan during the training for the Saiyans and the training in the Room of Spirit & Time.
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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:46 am

Did he write the infamous Obotchaman episode Julie-P?
AnimeMaakuo wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:38 am
Enjoy unboxing crap :thumbup:. Your continued support for crap will give us more crap for many years to come! :clap:.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:02 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:46 am
Did he write the infamous Obotchaman episode Julie-P?
Yes. He's also known for writing fucked up characters and sexist portrayals of women in Kamen Rider.
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Re: Toei was at their best when they did their own thing

Post by Danfun64 » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:16 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:14 am
Ignoring Inoue Toshiki being...Inoue Toshiki
Who now?
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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by MechaTrunks » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:31 am

Tai Lung wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:13 pm
ZeroNeonix wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 1:06 pm
Aside from some sketches here and there, weren't they pretty much doing their own thing in GT? And they may be following a basic guideline from Toriyama now in Super, but as the many differences between the anime and the manga show, that leaves a ton of room for creative license. And their contributions include poorly explained, out of nowhere, transformations that contribute nothing within the narrative. Also, I feel like the manga did a much better job of explaining all of the confusing time traveling that happened in the Zamasu arc.
that really depends on arcs

U6 arc anime >>> U6 arc manga

Zamasu arc anime <<< zamasu arc manga

Top arc anime >>> Top arc manga
Sorry?
U6 arc in the anime better than in the manga? Well, if you like nonsensical fights and base Goku above SSJBlue Vegeta ok, but the KKx10 vs Hit fight was laughable in terms of writting.
ToP in the anime wasn't even a battle royale, it had some very well animated scenes and that's it.

In terms of writting DBS is like DB:GT while the manga of DBS while having some errors here and there mostly pases as a decent continuation of the original manga.

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:57 am

MechaTrunks wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:31 am
In terms of writting DBS is like DB:GT.
Not exactly. Unlike GT, Super is actually fun to watch and has good fight scenes. GT on the other hand is the most boring thing to come out of the franchise, with the fights having little to no choreography.

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Re: Toei was at its best, when it did their own thing

Post by MechaTrunks » Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:29 am

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:57 am
MechaTrunks wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:31 am
In terms of writting DBS is like DB:GT.
Not exactly. Unlike GT, Super is actually fun to watch and has good fight scenes. GT on the other hand is the most boring thing to come out of the franchise, with the fights having little to no choreography.
Well, the fight choreographies are not writting, they're animation.
True that DB:GT's fights were the worst of the worst because they lacked everything but DBS (anime at least) also sacrifices another pillar of the DB fights: internal coherence.
Seeing SSJ2 Trunks having lost against SSJ3 Goku fighting SSJ Rose Black toe to toe while SSJ Blue Goku and SSJBlue Vegeta were totally overpowered just a chapter later kills my enjoyment of the fights nearly as much. Why do I have to be invested in a fight that I know will be resolved with any last minute ass-pulled technique/power-up?
How many times did Goku magically restore his strength in the ToP? Good writting is the basis for any good DB fight, and Toei lacks the knowledge on how to do this.

Regards!

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