Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

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Matches Malone
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Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Matches Malone » Mon May 11, 2020 10:27 pm

There are multiple topics that compare Super to GT, looking at each ones flaws and trying to decide which is better, so I want to leave that discussion out of this topic completely. Instead, what I want to know is what would you do if you were given the keys to the franchise.

Would you try to make everything bigger like Super ? Or would you take the franchise in a more slice of life direction, leaving end of the world concepts behind ? Maybe go with Online's idea of jumping 200+ years into the future with a completely new cast ? The only condition is that you can't discard the original manga, everything else though is OK.

For me, I'd like a legacy kind of show that explores the various characters before their introduction to Goku. The show would jump all over the place, with arcs more or less being standalone. One arc could tell the story of how the 5 Ginyu members met and formed their team. Another would look at Kami's life before splitting into 2 beings and how that impacted him. That could be followed by a Vegeta arc before he went to earth, etc. There are so many great characters and concepts that I feel could be explored in an interesting way under the leadership of the right author.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Grimlock » Mon May 11, 2020 10:56 pm

Dragon Ball Online is the ideal one, for sure. It's high time we moved forward.

I would dedicate a portion of the anime to show what the original cast ended up doing after the manga before starting the actual story. Having just Trunks, Bardock and Piccolo (the latter one where possible and maybe Dabura too) as prominent are more than enough when it comes to familiar faces.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by KorgDTR2000 » Mon May 11, 2020 11:25 pm

To me, the most effective note GT hits is melancholy. There's a sense of sadness that the journey is ending, that these people are aging and moving into the final stages of their life, and that this special thing they've been a part of is just about over. I especially like the idea of Goku becoming almost mythological. Flying off into the sunset with Shenlong might be a bit too mumbo jumbo, but I do like that vibe. I actually really liked what Online had, which is Goku and Vegeta, nearing the end of their natural lives, flying into space for a final fight and never been seen again.

My ideal Dragon Ball sequel would hit hard on those notes. If the manga covers the last 35 years of a story, I'd want the sequel to cover the final 15-20.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Vijay » Tue May 12, 2020 1:14 am

Definitely not as "OP" God-power abuse as in Super

Also not as grounded, "super-realistic" like GT to the point needing Super Saiyan 4 to lift collapsing building blocks

An ideal DragonBall sequel would be returning to heyday DB roots (Majin Boo Arc already did that with comedy/magic), but thi time, also with power levels.

Would like to watch unique training segments (more than ROSAT/Capsule Pod/pathetic Whis training) along the lines of Roshi, Karin-sama, God-like, King Kai, Old Kai potential & training's.

Also, diving abit deeper to mythological tale to certain races, like what Piccolo Daimou was established.

It'll bit a fresh take after exhaustive Super Saiyan show

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by MyVisionity » Tue May 12, 2020 3:34 am

I like the idea of series or arcs from different time periods.

I too would like a series featuring the life of Piccolo Kami/Child of Katattsu before he became God. His experiences as a child and then growing into a martial artist.

A series that follows the original Son Gohan and his life is interesting because of his reputation. It can include Kame-Sennin and Gyu-Mao as well. I imagine this series would parallel DB in having Gohan leaving his mountain home and training with Roshi and Ox à la Goku with Kuririn. Maybe feature a Tenkaichi Budoukai.

- The story of young Roshi and Crane as Mutaito's disciples.

- A series revolving around Tenshinhan, Chiao Tzu, and Lunch as they travel the world. This can take place during the Z-era.

- A series set in West City that features Bulma and her family during the DB and DBZ era. Maybe feature Bulma's classmates and neighbors and go from there.

As far as outright sequels go, I would like to see a show where Goku and the others must fight against giant-sized warriors, from another dimension perhaps. The Saiyans would train to master their Oozaru forms, Piccolo his giant form, and the Earthlings could operate giant robot mecha designed by Capsule Corp. Call it "Dragon Ball Dai" or "Dragon Ball O" or something.

Also more Videl/Gohan stories, and bring back Erasa/Sharpner. Maybe a story where Videl decides to return to the martial arts or revive her crimefighting career.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Tue May 12, 2020 6:45 am

Just go into the story knowing it's the end and work towards a conclusion.

Also, no way would I want it to be "slice of life". Those episodes have their place but making them a whole series? Hell no.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Robo4900 » Tue May 12, 2020 9:43 am

A series that tries ambitious new ideas, isn't afraid to feel different from the more traditional idea of "What Toriyama intended Dragon Ball to be", and tells its stories with a good pace like GT, but with stronger writing of the individual episodes themselves like DB/Z.

Character must ultimately be king, in terms of the characters being written well and used well. That is to say, much like the Broly movie, the original manga, and GT, characters shouldn't just be brought in for the sake of it; use only the characters relevant to the story you're telling, and go ham in telling their part of the story well. Loading a show up with characters just for the sake of having them on screen leads to no one having any room to really characterise... You'll end up with bloated, slow stories where everyone is a flanderised caricature of themself. Far better to just accept that not every character is going to get screentime, and just give a good spotlight to the characters whose presence makes sense in the story.

Don't be afraid of doing "filler", though. Super's slice of life episodes are pretty much perfect, and stuff like that should be present in any new incarnation of Dragon Ball. And quite importantly, these episodes allow us to shine a spotlight on characters who wouldn't necessarily have any reason to take part in a mainline storyline. Want to tell a story where we finally see Lunch again? Do it as a one-or-two-episode slice of life thing between arcs.
Want to see what Tenshinhan or Yamucha are up to? Do it as a slice of life thing... If they showed up in a main arc, it would make no sense, but it is a shame to not revisit these characters, and slice of life stuff is the perfect way to do that.

Characters have to move forward.
Vegeta, by the end of the "Z" storyline, was done destroying himself and his family to get stronger than Goku. Sure, he's always going to be a proud warrior who seeks to better himself, but "I MUST BE STRONGER THAN KAKAROT!" shouldn't be the basis of his character arc in a new storyline. If the writers can't think of anything interesting to do with him, there's no problem retiring him for a little while (as in GT); he's been a second main character of Dragon Ball for a very long time, so putting him to rest for a little while is perfectly justified. Though ideally, for such a fan favourite, fundamental character, we'd have him fairly central.

... On that note, for a more specific whim, I would pitch a new story set after GT.
Doing a midquel like Super is not a good idea, because you can't particularly move the story forward, so it should be an outright sequel. Doing it right after Z seems obvious, but GT already occupies that space, and it already concluded Goku's story about as well as I think anything could, so I think a new story could do some interesting things following how the characters' lives go after Goku's departure.
Plus, setting it after GT means the easy out of the Dragon Balls is gone. Does mean "Dragon Ball" becomes an artifact title, but who cares. While the Dragon Balls were originally the central MacGuffins of the story, they've basically been a "Get out of jail free card" at all times since the Grand Elder died in the Namek arc.
So, I say, do away with the Dragon Balls completely, and show us how the characters we've come to love handle things in a world where there are no Dragon Balls anymore. Maybe Vegeta dies saving the earth, but can't be revived this time, leaving both him and Goku gone.
There's a lot of storytelling opportunity here, provided the people writing it were on the ball.
Though, this would never happen -- neither Toei nor Toriyama would ever do a Dragon Ball show without Goku.

Though, on a final note, I will say -- Dragon Ball should move away from Toriyama. Trying to capture the golden age '80s/'90s Toriyama style has driven things into the ground. The less GT tried to emulate Toriyama, the better it got, and one of Super's main flaws is that Toriyama just doesn't have it anymore, and the attempts by the various people involved in Super to stay faithful to his vision just makes this more apparent.
If new good Dragon Ball stories are to be told, Dragon Ball must move beyond Toriyama.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Majin Buu » Tue May 12, 2020 9:51 am

Neko Majin Z is already kind of a sequel. It wouldn't take much to rework that into a proper continuation:

- It's set in the Dragon Ball universe.

- Goku isn't the main character (that seems to be what many people here want).

- Z is an amusing character in his own right and could serve similar story functions to Goku.

- It's already introduced more Saiyan characters and even a "son" for Freeza.

- It's already introduced some interesting concepts, like Uub living with the Son family.

It would be more humor focused and not as "badass action anime" oriented, but those moments would still be there and perhaps carry more weight since they would be few and far between.
Last edited by Majin Buu on Tue May 12, 2020 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue May 12, 2020 9:52 am

The thing is that I don't know if certain side stories would hold anyone's attention beyond a few issues/episodes. I'd also like to visit an unexplored story like Son Gohan and Gyumao training under Muten Roshi or maybe even something about primitive Saiyans. I just think that the curiosity to see that would fade pretty quickly.

I've always envisioned a post-GT story, where most of the characters that we know take a backseat. Goku would have to return somehow, and when he did, we know that Goku and Vegeta can't take a backseat at all and would be involved in the fights even if Gohan, Trunks, Goten, etc. aren't.

To me, Dragon Ball is Goku's story. Sure, you can focus on someone else, but that's akin to doing Spider-Man without Peter Parker -- sure it's been done, but it's not the same.

Also, whatever direction a sequel would go, it needs to involve some version of Dragon Balls. They need to play some role, or the title wouldn't make sense.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Matches Malone » Tue May 12, 2020 11:29 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:52 am
Dragon Ball is Goku's story. Sure, you can focus on someone else, but that's akin to doing Spider-Man without Peter Parker -- sure it's been done, but it's not the same.
Like Spider-man, Goku's story has been more or less frozen in time. I think the problem with continuing the franchise in a traditional way is that everyone's stories were wrapped up by the end of the manga. One reason fans were disappointed in Goku's return in the Buu arc is how little development he went through. If anything, he was there more so to develop Vegeta. Toriyama even said one of the reasons he ended the manga was due to there not being anywhere logical to take Goku's story, as we've seen in both GT and Super.

I think the best place to take the franchise is either to the future or the past, as the present simply doesn't have much more to offer outside of cool fights and transformations, which don't do much for the characters themselves.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Grimlock » Tue May 12, 2020 11:42 am

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 9:52 am
Sure, you can focus on someone else, but that's akin to doing Spider-Man without Peter Parker -- sure it's been done, but it's not the same.
Great comparison. Because while it's not the same, they work (and sometimes even better than the original, see Miles Morales). And that's all that matters, it works when you shift focus. Something that has been the case in Dragon Ball too.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Tue May 12, 2020 11:49 am

Stories have logical endpoints. At a certain point you've gone as far as you can with the characters and it's time to end things.

I still think there are places to go for Vegeta. Becoming a mentor is a fresh direction that feels the next logical step. Perhaps take Gohan further down the road of realizing he doesn't have to pick either studying or martial arts. He can do both.
and sometimes even better than the original, see Miles Morales
Miles does not work better than Peter, even in his own movie. He's not even the most interesting character in his own movie. ITSV showed a different side of Peter at a point in his life we don't often get to see. Also, Jake Johnson is amazing. Miles' story was yet another origin story.

I don't know about shifting focus. Usually you end up playing the same beats.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Matches Malone » Tue May 12, 2020 12:08 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:49 am
I don't know about shifting focus. Usually you end up playing the same beats.
It worked in Batman Beyond. When the team behind BTAS was told to shift focus to a younger Batman, they thought it was a train wreck waiting to happen. Once they got started though, not only did they make it work, they ended up liking it just as much as BTAS, as did the fans. I think like with any idea, it comes down to the team behind it. The idea of a younger Batman who can better relate to children would've crashed and burned under a lot of writers, yet BTAS's writers made something that was just as good as the original, and went from being a one off cartoon to a main part of Batman's mythology.

The same can happen with DB. You can end up with a new lead that tanks the franchise, but under the right author, you can also end up with something that takes the franchise to places it never thought possible before.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Tue May 12, 2020 12:17 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:08 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 11:49 am
I don't know about shifting focus. Usually you end up playing the same beats.
It worked in Batman Beyond. When the team behind BTAS was told to shift focus to a younger Batman, they thought it was a train wreck waiting to happen. Once they got started though, not only did they make it work, they ended up liking it just as much as BTAS, as did the fans. I think like with any idea, it comes down to the team behind it. The idea of a younger Batman who can better relate to children would've crashed and burned under a lot of writers, yet BTAS's writers made something that was just as good as the original, and went from being a one off cartoon to a main part of Batman's mythology.

The same can happen with DB. You can end up with a new lead that tanks the franchise, but under the right author, you can also end up with something that takes the franchise to places it never thought possible before.
I think in large part because it was Batman in high school so it became a very different series. More akin to Buffy and Spidey and less strictly urban crimefighter/superhero. I think the series is overrated, though and goes to show that Bruce Wayne is the one true Batman.

It's also not merely the right author, it's timing. It's the right author at the right time. There tends to be a window with these things where it's lightning in a bottle.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Matches Malone » Tue May 12, 2020 12:41 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 12:17 pm
I think the series is overrated, though and goes to show that Bruce Wayne is the one true Batman.
Of course Bruce is THE Batman, but the point of Beyond was never to change that, it was to show that something different can also work. I think it's up for debate on whether or not it's overrated, but no one can deny that despite the risks, they managed to pull of a show that could not only stand on its own, but live up to what came before. The point of a potential DB show without Goku won't be to replace him, but to present the franchise from a different point of view, one that can stand alongside Goku's story, rather than overtake it.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Tue May 12, 2020 1:01 pm

I don't think it does stand next to BTAS. It was a fun continuation but little more.

Considering how much ground DB has covered, what different point of view is there? It will be such a naked attempt at keeping DB going forever.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Matches Malone » Tue May 12, 2020 1:15 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 1:01 pm
Considering how much ground DB has covered, what different point of view is there? It will be such a naked attempt at keeping DB going forever.
Personally speaking, I think the original story is perfect as is, and should've remained as a completed work back when the manga ended. However, if ending DB wasn't an option, and I was given the choice of how to continue it, I'd rather take things in a new direction instead of just milking Goku's story like what's going on now.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Tue May 12, 2020 1:22 pm

I swear I'm not doing this to be contrarian, but I would rather they milk the characters I know. I'd rather follow them forever than have it DB in name only. I've seen shows continue without the lead and it always feels like a shell even in comparison to shows that pass their expiration date.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Matches Malone » Tue May 12, 2020 1:37 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 1:22 pm
I would rather they milk the characters I know. I'd rather follow them forever than have it DB in name only. I've seen shows continue without the lead and it always feels like a shell even in comparison to shows that pass their expiration date.
Your definitely not wrong in believing this, as it seems to be a very popular opinion. The issue I have with continuing with Goku and friends is that they've tried it not once, but twice (GT, Super), and both fell flat on their faces compared to the original manga. Although it's riskier to make a drastic change such as continuing with a completely new cast, at this point I think it'll be worth it because creatively speaking, what they're doing now is hit or miss at best.

How many more transformations can Goku get before it becomes too much ? How many more "stronger" fighters can he get excited about going up against before it gets old ? I feel like the longer a story goes on, the more of what makes it special gets lost. That's not to say Goku's post manga adventures have been bad, they just have a "been there, done that" feeling to them. I think shifting the focus to someone else can really breath new life in to this franchise, and it's not like they can't switch back to Goku if things don't work out.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Tue May 12, 2020 1:47 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 1:37 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue May 12, 2020 1:22 pm
I would rather they milk the characters I know. I'd rather follow them forever than have it DB in name only. I've seen shows continue without the lead and it always feels like a shell even in comparison to shows that pass their expiration date.
Your definitely not wrong in believing this, as it seems to be a very popular opinion. The issue I have with continuing with Goku and friends is that they've tried it not once, but twice (GT, Super), and both fell flat on their faces compared to the original manga. Although it's riskier to make a drastic change such as continuing with a completely new cast, at this point I think it'll be worth it because creatively speaking, what they're doing now is hit or miss at best.

How many more transformations can Goku get before it becomes too much ? How many more "stronger" fighters can he get excited about going up against before it gets old ? I feel like the longer a story goes on, the more of what makes it special gets lost. That's not to say Goku's post manga adventures have been bad, they just have a "been there, done that" feeling to them. I think shifting the focus to someone else can really breath new life in to this franchise, and it's not like they can't switch back to Goku if things don't work out.
I guess they can do a spin off, but it would have to be a story that happens to be set in that world as opposed to continuing with the name Dragon Ball. I'm not going out of my way to see any of this, not even Super.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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