Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

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Matches Malone
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Matches Malone » Wed May 27, 2020 1:41 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:25 pm
Gohan and Vegeta don't appear until much later in the series. So tell me, if it "doesn't really feel" Dragon Ball without them, what the original Dragon Ball feels like exactly?
Vegeta and Gohan have been around for so long that they're associated with the franchise, so it doesn't feel right to not have them around. If someone just got into the original DB and found out Krillin and Roshi die in the middle of the story, they'd feel the same way as by then they're associated with the story. Whenever I move from the 23rd Tenkaichi to Z, something feels off with Launch not being around because I'm so used to her being in the story with everyone else.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Grimlock » Wed May 27, 2020 2:16 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:41 pm
Vegeta and Gohan have been around for so long that they're associated with the franchise, so it doesn't feel right to not have them around. If someone just got into the original DB and found out Krillin and Roshi die in the middle of the story, they'd feel the same way as by then they're associated with the story. Whenever I move from the 23rd Tenkaichi to Z, something feels off with Launch not being around because I'm so used to her being in the story with everyone else.
I understand the feeling, but it cannot serve as an argument about what it feels or doesn't feel. Because of Dragon Ball, one can watch it without Gohan or Vegeta for obvious reasons, and then you watch Dragon Ball Z and get used to these characters. But then you jump into Dragon Ball GT where neither are prominent and I don't know if I can say "Dragon Ball GT doesn't feel like Dragon Ball" due to their absence, because you are used to it thanks to the original Dragon Ball. To simplify, it's just matter of getting used to. Well, at least to me.

Movies also don't feature some characters and you only feel their absence narratively speaking (so for example, Vegeta should have appeared in Movie 10, not because Movie 10 doesn't feel Dragon Ball without him, because it is set in a time frame where he is available to be there).

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ZeroNeonix » Wed May 27, 2020 2:24 pm

First, I'd have a couple of TV specials. Not part of the series, but just as an independent piece of Super like Bardock: Father of Goku or The History of Trunks. The first special would feature the story of Moro, just to bring that manga to animation. The second would be a story about Vegeta finally traveling to Universe 6's Sadala to meet Cabba, who is training with Caulifla and Kale. While there, he's impressed by how tightly they run their operations, noting that the Saiyans of his own universe could never work so close together without tearing each other apart. However, an evil group of Saiyans attempts to start a coup and overthrow the king. They're led by a powerful warrior who has discovered how to tap into the Super Saiyan abilities, and gives Cabba and the others a real challenge. Vegeta refuses to step in and get involved, saying they should be able to fix their own problems.

Then I would have Super+ take place after End of Z, because far too much has happened in that time gap already. Goku is training with Uub when he comes to a realization. He's been without a real challenge for a very long time. He decides to travel the multiverse, looking for strong warriors. Whis lends Goku his cube so he can take Uub with him on adventures. For one episode, he could reunite with Jiren and the Pride Troopers and challenge the villain who killed Jiren's family. The series would end with a big villain who threatens the entire multiverse. I'm thinking an evil angel, from one of the deleted universes (since the Tournament of Power taught us that the angels can survive their universe's annihilation). He successfully kills both Zenos and takes their place as the Omni-King. Goku, and his strongest friends from across the universes, have to work together to stop him.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Jord » Thu May 28, 2020 5:21 am

Grimlock wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 2:16 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 1:41 pm
Vegeta and Gohan have been around for so long that they're associated with the franchise, so it doesn't feel right to not have them around. If someone just got into the original DB and found out Krillin and Roshi die in the middle of the story, they'd feel the same way as by then they're associated with the story. Whenever I move from the 23rd Tenkaichi to Z, something feels off with Launch not being around because I'm so used to her being in the story with everyone else.
I understand the feeling, but it cannot serve as an argument about what it feels or doesn't feel. Because of Dragon Ball, one can watch it without Gohan or Vegeta for obvious reasons, and then you watch Dragon Ball Z and get used to these characters. But then you jump into Dragon Ball GT where neither are prominent and I don't know if I can say "Dragon Ball GT doesn't feel like Dragon Ball" due to their absence, because you are used to it thanks to the original Dragon Ball. To simplify, it's just matter of getting used to. Well, at least to me.

Movies also don't feature some characters and you only feel their absence narratively speaking (so for example, Vegeta should have appeared in Movie 10, not because Movie 10 doesn't feel Dragon Ball without him, because it is set in a time frame where he is available to be there).
What I meant was that if the series didn't have Gohan, Goku or Vegeta (as in "at least one of these heavyweights") the series would get a whole different feel due to the fact that they're immensely strong. (and basically Get out of jail free cards) The series would feel drastically different without them. Not necessarily worse, mind you.

Actually, DBZ would could be way more interesting without them and having just Kuririn, Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Chiauztu, Piccolo and Yajirobe as the leads. Yes, there would have to be some scaling and rewriting but a more team-based approach would be very interesting.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by dubbxyz » Sat May 30, 2020 2:04 am

Not necessarily a sequel however a spin-off.I would like a representation of another characters viewpoint such as future Trunks timeline seeing a series from his main point of view, or possibly a villains angle making it a darker atmosphere of an angle for a show. I feel having a different focus on the main character would be a good way to spin the series without interrupting the big picture. The Goku show is nice, however would be neat to see the story focused on another characters point of view.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Mister_Popo » Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:05 pm

dubbxyz wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 2:04 am
Not necessarily a sequel however a spin-off.I would like a representation of another characters viewpoint such as future Trunks timeline seeing a series from his main point of view, or possibly a villains angle making it a darker atmosphere of an angle for a show. I feel having a different focus on the main character would be a good way to spin the series without interrupting the big picture. The Goku show is nice, however would be neat to see the story focused on another characters point of view.


I get what you are aiming for, and i do think there is a potential soil for it.
Technically speaking, it's entirely possible to make a good "canonical" spinoff (such as with future Trunks), and even other stuff in other timelines / the past and so on with existing or brand new DB-characters, including another cast. It's a matter of investment. You have to be willing to invest and willing to brand it that way.
It's possible to make a larger extended universe, with other stories that are attached to each other and the main Goku timeline (that probably is not going to end anytime soon). As long as you keep the main timeline running, one could use it as a hook to brand other stories and characters. DB is seen as Gokus story, and that's partially true, but i think the main story contains a number of timeless elements, which, set in another context, might offer something renewing, definitely for specific fans of the DB-genre. And no, probably, not every spin-off will be great, but you can't exclude there could actually come some refreshing stuff along from that too.

I don't see it happen immediately though, if we are getting something new 'canonical', it's probably involving the classic characters and Goku timeline. They tend to play it safe. As the franchise more tends to invest and expand into side-products like merchandise, games etc so it seems nowadays, this while the classic "canonical" Goku timeline (or derivatives like DB Heroes) are being stretched as the promoter of it all.
If the public keeps asking for more Goku and Vegeta, that's because of the same main dish they are always used to getting. We aren't really used to other possible intresting stories set in the same universe. But that does not automatically mean they can't exist.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:39 pm

I don't know why anyone would care at this point to see something else set in the world but not about the characters we care about.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Yuli Ban » Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:10 pm

I didn't want to post in this thread because I have no idea for an ideal DB sequel; I've been more concerned about how I might write my own DB ripoff inspired story.

But if I had to think of a DB sequel, I'd want an anime adaptation of Dragon Ball Online. Entirely new protagonists and antagonists, but with the original DB characters still around in some otherworldly capacity, like Son Goku and Vegeta being just legends/ghosts who will occasionally appear for guidance. Or some stupid gag like Oolong now being a God, but of something inconsequential, except he gets overly defensive when you point that out. Or Goten and Trunks being old, decrepit swordsmen. Or Roshi still living on his island, willing to talk to you about all the crazy shit that keeps happening in his life.

But if that's the case, then why not just make a new story with suspiciously copyright-infringingly similar features like I'm doing and let DB pass on? The story's very long past its prime and the characters have become Flanderized, with the only way to get most of them back on screen to come up with incredible contrivances.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:11 pm

Yuli Ban wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:10 pm
I didn't want to post in this thread because I have no idea for an ideal DB sequel; I've been more concerned about how I might write my own DB ripoff inspired story.

But if I had to think of a DB sequel, I'd want an anime adaptation of Dragon Ball Online. Entirely new protagonists and antagonists, but with the original DB characters still around in some otherworldly capacity, like Son Goku and Vegeta being just legends/ghosts who will occasionally appear for guidance. Or some stupid gag like Oolong now being a God, but of something inconsequential, except he gets overly defensive when you point that out. Or Goten and Trunks being old, decrepit swordsmen. Or Roshi still living on his island, willing to talk to you about all the crazy shit that keeps happening in his life.

But if that's the case, then why not just make a new story with suspiciously copyright-infringingly similar features like I'm doing and let DB pass on? The story's very long past its prime and the characters have become Flanderized, with the only way to get most of them back on screen to come up with incredible contrivances.
More or less my point.
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by FoolsGil » Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:50 pm

One of the things mentioned in DBO was that when Goku and Vegeta sensed their natural end, they decided to have one final duel - to the death. But what if the series was each time that they got ready to fight, something got in their way, like they thought they landed on an uninhabited planet, but it turns out it was actually a giant fucking worm.

One of the the last things mentioned in DBO about Goku and Vegeta was there was a supernova recorded wherever they were. I want to think that with their abilities failing to a point where at best they can't get to Super Saiyan, they meet an enemy who they cannot defeat. They're forced to fuse to a base Gogeta, and it's still not enough. But in they end they push their remaining life energy to transform, and the life energy to go Super Saiyan was the supernova. And so they go out fighting.

Otherwise, Trunks and Goten get conscripted to the Galactic Patrol. The Moms don't like it. But the Dads see it as a good idea and accidentally lose them in deep space and can't sense them.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Mister_Popo » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:57 am

Yuli Ban wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:10 pm

But if I had to think of a DB sequel, I'd want an anime adaptation of Dragon Ball Online. Entirely new protagonists and antagonists, but with the original DB characters still around in some otherworldly capacity, like Son Goku and Vegeta being just legends/ghosts who will occasionally appear for guidance. Or some stupid gag like Oolong now being a God, but of something inconsequential, except he gets overly defensive when you point that out. Or Goten and Trunks being old, decrepit swordsmen. Or Roshi still living on his island, willing to talk to you about all the crazy shit that keeps happening in his life.



I'd love to turn more into the direction they were taking during the second half of DBZ for the main continuity.
It was still Gokus story but with a much stronger focuss on the second- and third-gen-fighters.
It would make sense for the story to make it's natural progression and have a stronger focuss Gohan, Goten, Uub, Pan, Caulifla, Kale, Cabba ... As a lot of those characters to my feeling have enormous potential for growth which hasn't been shown yet by the writers.
Why couldn't angel-tier Gohan, Kefla or Uub actually surpass Goku or Vegeta one day, or at least become equals?

But i don't know for sure Goku and Vegeta Obi-Wans would be the solution in the long term.
During first half Buu arc Toriyama tended to write that way, but eventually he had to turn his ship and give Goku a bigger role again.
I still think the writers would feel serious pressure after a while from fans wanting those 'ghosts' to reappear on the battle field.

It's no real issue for me to see those characters on a regular basis reappear in Super or the sequel to Super, even as them being amongst the stronger fighters, as long they don't tend to "overfocuss" on those characters alone. I don't dislike Super as such, but that's one of those things it should try to apply less.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by NitroEX » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:07 am

I wrote a post relating to this a long time ago but basically I would trash Super and use EOZ as a jumping-off point to essentially redo the GT era as a high budget movie that provides us with a final send-off for the series (similar to what Dark Side of Dimensions was for Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Monsters).

The protagonist would be Pan and the story would begin with a strained relationship between her and Gohan, who we learn has been too busy with work to spend time with her. We would find out that she still idolizes Goku and misses him since he left to train with Oob (which would explain his absence from much of the film). The motivation to see Goku again combined with her frustration with Gohan would set the story in motion and we would see her run away from home and go on a worldwide adventure to collect the Dragon Balls in order to make a wish to see Goku again (revisiting many iconic places with character cameos along the way).

To introduce the villain conflict you could recontextualize the Shadow Dragon saga and fold it into the film story by making her wish be the tipping point that finally unleashes the Shadow Dragons. Gohan and maybe a few others (Vegeta & Piccolo) could catch up with her to try to fight the dragons but are ultimately overwhelmed. This is when Goku and Oob make a late appearance to turn the tide and from there all kinds of crazy fighting shenanigans would ensue. If you want shiny new merch bait then this would be your opportunity to integrate a new version of Super Saiyan 4 or Super Oob or whatever.

Heros would win of course, but just barely. Dragon Balls might be destroyed for good in the process, not sure about that part yet. But in an ideal world, I wouldn't simply end the film on one happy picnic reunion (like what Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return did), instead, I would prefer a more sombre ending where we say goodbye to the key players with a tone of finality, kind of similar to GT's ending but with an adult Goku saying goodbye to Pan - but really he's saying goodbye to us (the audience) as the whole point of Pan being the protagonist is to provide a metanarrative and surrogate for the nostalgic viewer to experience one last thrill ride through this world.

I'm sure Toei would never allow an end with such finality for DB, and would swiftly find a way to milk it again afterwards and ruin the meaning behind the ending, but at that point I would already have my perfect film and wouldn't care about anything else they release.

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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:58 am

NitroEX wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:07 am
I wrote a post relating to this a long time ago but basically I would trash Super and use EOZ as a jumping-off point to essentially redo the GT era as a high budget movie that provides us with a final send-off for the series (similar to what Dark Side of Dimensions was for Yu-Gi-Oh Duel Monsters).

The protagonist would be Pan and the story would begin with a strained relationship between her and Gohan, who we learn has been too busy with work to spend time with her. We would find out that she still idolizes Goku and misses him since he left to train with Oob (which would explain his absence from much of the film). The motivation to see Goku again combined with her frustration with Gohan would set the story in motion and we would see her run away from home and go on a worldwide adventure to collect the Dragon Balls in order to make a wish to see Goku again (revisiting many iconic places with character cameos along the way).

To introduce the villain conflict you could recontextualize the Shadow Dragon saga and fold it into the film story by making her wish be the tipping point that finally unleashes the Shadow Dragons. Gohan and maybe a few others (Vegeta & Piccolo) could catch up with her to try to fight the dragons but are ultimately overwhelmed. This is when Goku and Oob make a late appearance to turn the tide and from there all kinds of crazy fighting shenanigans would ensue. If you want shiny new merch bait then this would be your opportunity to integrate a new version of Super Saiyan 4 or Super Oob or whatever.

Heros would win of course, but just barely. Dragon Balls might be destroyed for good in the process, not sure about that part yet. But in an ideal world, I wouldn't simply end the film on one happy picnic reunion (like what Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return did), instead, I would prefer a more sombre ending where we say goodbye to the key players with a tone of finality, kind of similar to GT's ending but with an adult Goku saying goodbye to Pan - but really he's saying goodbye to us (the audience) as the whole point of Pan being the protagonist is to provide a metanarrative and surrogate for the nostalgic viewer to experience one last thrill ride through this world.

I'm sure Toei would never allow an end with such finality for DB, and would swiftly find a way to milk it again afterwards and ruin the meaning behind the ending, but at that point I would already have my perfect film and wouldn't care about anything else they release.
That would be a great movie man, and yeah, destroying the Dragon Balls would be a daring move that I doubt TOEI would take.

I personally always liked the idea that after Goku left the remaining heroes would need to rely on themselves to make the universe a better place without relying on the Dragon Balls as a crutch, Zeno (or a reworked version of him) could be used and his role could be making an agreement with Shenron that the Dragon Balls can only be brought back if the inhabitants of Universe 6 proved their perseverance knowing others could be killed permanently, and many characters could suffer this fate. Would need to think about how I'd make the Dragon Balls return as a reward for potentially decades of hard work by a cast without Goku, and a good final villain. TOEI would probably still see it as too dark, but it would undo death being a joke to an extent and have a more sophisticated message about the fragility of life and how easy our heroes had it up to that point, but now they need to live in the real world (or universe).
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by MCDaveG » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:53 am

For me, Super is ideal sequel, tough to push it to perfection, I would love them to basically push the series or start the series after the Epilogue in DBZ.

Super was great in - Beerus set up the continuation, getting familiar with the cast again, expading the world...
Freeza was callback to the past, Champa was a glimpse of the bigger world, Tournament of Power was great.

Future Trunks arc would be great, but it really was consequential just for Trunks. We have basically seen an annihilation of Trunks' world with Goku and Vegeta being ''We wanna fight strong opponents, so let's take a trip to the future and then we get back to our happy lives''.
It was really depressing...

For a great sequel, you have to have some stakes and consequences, so you have to continue after what was before... You can retcon or completely disregard GT as not happening and do your thing... You could technically do that with Super as well,
but this is why I don't care about Moro at all... New Namek is destroyed? Planets obliterated? People sad? Well, I have seen Goku buying ice cream to his grandaughter and being happy and bored that he has nobody to fight anymore years after Moro... Unless you introduce lot of interesting things to expand the world beyond what is, fight for your life or fate of the universe is just waste of time as we know it is fine later and everyone alive and well.

I have liked the characters mentioning in Super, that Buu got reincarnated in this boy, so they will wait for him to catch up (on the upcoming tournament), so right now, my ideal sequel will be starting the show with recap of Goku meeting Uub in Prologue and then the narrator saying BUT! And then you start a new right away with new adventures, new threats, grown up cast... Why should Pan be the only child of Gohan and Videl? Make grown Trunks and Goten more in center like GT tried at times and make them more active... I am not fan of them just being characters that form Gotenks and man, I am really recalling seeing GT on TV as a kid and being so let down by them not fusing as grown ups! Now I am actually missing standalone Trunks and Goten.

Also, Super started quite promising with actually showing the slice of life and other characters and then showing them aside in GT fashion since the Champa arc. But what I really don't like about Super is Pilaf plothole and the weird on and off time travel!
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Re: Your ideal Dragon Ball sequel.

Post by SupremeKai25 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:04 am

Technically Super is a midquel, because its events take place between the defeat of Majin Buu and the End of Z. Hopefully the Moro arc gets there at the end. Getting past the End of Z should finally offer them a bit more freedom in how they want to develop the characters and the world.
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