SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings?

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:30 pm

Adamant wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:16 pm
MyVisionity wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:02 pm
That's the issue. It's *too* literal. If you have to break the term down into its most literal parts to translate it, then there might be a problem.

Also, ningen doesn't necessarily have to translate into "human" specifically, which is the reason why so many different types of characters are called it. It's not really about any kind of "franchise rules".
Interpreting "jinzoningen" as "a ningen that is jinzo" is... really not being too literal. Are you saying Simmons should've written "Artificialmen" or something instead?
I have a feeling your Japanese isn't all that, but you should probably give that wikipedia article about jinzoningen a read alongside that Herms thread that talks about things like "human-type humans" and whatnot.
Those articles and thread don't change anything. It's just like I said. You shouldn't have to break a term like that one into its literal parts. Simmons could have picked any term he wanted, preferably better than "Artificial Human". But that's not really the point.

And again, ningen has more meanings besides "human", which is why it is used as liberally as it is in the series. "Person/People" is another one.

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Robo4900 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:39 pm

Adamant wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:07 pm
...if you're so convinced "ningen" is this super meaningful word that cannot possibly be translated into English as "human" you should probably locate some sources for that claim beyond "my understanding", because come on man, I've provided translations of articles explaining both the words "cyborg", "jinzoningen" and "ningen" itself, plus references to the use of "jinzoningen" in Japanese media to refer to certain people that are arguably cyborgs. I don't know what else to tell you.

If you're this convinced Simmons, Herms and whoever translated the manga for Viz were wrong when they translated ningen as "human" I suggest poking Herms on Twitter about it, because I'm not super interested in dragging this on any longer.
Hey man, all I'm saying is that if it's as simple as "Ningen literally means human, nothing more to it", then Toriyama's use of terminology makes no sense. It's like if an English piece of media had some sweet, jam-filled bagels... I'd be pretty sure they have the wrong word. Ginyu, Namekians, and Cell are not homo sapiens, so a word that literally means "Human" doesn't apply. I saw this debate come up a lot when Super had the "Zero Humans Plan" or "Zero Mortals Plan", depending on how you wanted to render it. (IIRC the fansubs and Crunchyroll subs generally went with the former, but Funimation's dub went with the latter?)

By occam's razor, the simplest explanation is often the correct one, and in this case, what's simpler?...
A. Toriyama uses terminology that doesn't make sense any sense in English or Japanese, and all the translations adapt this fine.
B. There's a minor cultural/linguistic difference here that Simmons arguably didn't render in the clearest possible way in his subtitles.*

*(That's not to say that this is, as you put it, "this super meaningful word that cannot possibly be translated into English as 'human'", it's to say "Japanese is a notoriously different, difficult language for English-speakers, so maybe this common word doesn't exactly map to this common word, but it's close enough in most cases, but creates some weird edge-cases in subtitle tracks that are as literal as Simmons' tend to be)

I don't see what your problem is with understanding the idea that maybe this word that you can only seem to define via a Wikipedia article that mentions it in passing when defining a different word, doesn't literally go into the English word "human" as cleanly as you're convinced it does.
Granted, I've never studied any Japanese. So, yes, it's entirely possible I have the wrong end of the stick here; I'm fully expecting to find out I have some wrong idea somewhere in here. But to be blunt, your attitude so far of "you're wrong, now shut up and read my proof: This list of times this confusing edge case has popped up, and my translation of a wikipedia article for a different word which briefly mentions this word in passing as also referring to this" is baffling to me, and is making this discussion feel needlessly dramatic and confrontational. If you actually do understand Japanese, there are less rude ways of saying "My understanding is it literally just means 'homo sapien', much like the English word 'human'."
However, regardless of how you put it, my understanding has always been that your belief that "ningen" means "human" in a literal, exact sense, is not correct, and now MyVisionity is saying they have come to understand the same thing, so... Maybe you're not quite the expert you've thought yourself to be in this thread so far, and maybe "Ningen" is a word like many in Japanese that doesn't quite have an exact counterpart in English (such as most honourifics), so the translators involved here have just used their best attempt at an adaptation of it, but it's created some weird edge-cases, many of which arise from the very literal way in which Simmons phrases his dialogue...

This isn't some ridiculous idea of "it's a deeply complex word that doesn't translate, like nakama or keikaku", and I'd appreciate it if you didn't frame it as if I'm suggesting that; it doesn't contribute anything to the discussion other than make it harder for me to respond to you. Feels like I have to say the same thing two or three times or you'll ignore it and act like I've said something else entirely.

As for poking Herms on Twitter, I don't have Twitter; it's never appealed to me, and frankly I've got enough distracting things to waste time on without joining a social media platform that forces you to communicate in the most condensed-down, nuance-free way anyone can possibly use. :lol:
If someone else wants to poke him, I'd be interested to hear what he says. Though I imagine he'll similarly say "'Human' is a close enough approximation, but it generates some odd edge cases."

--

On a sidenote, I think it's quite fitting that a thread about whether some dub terminology is lacklustre, has devolved into an argument about whether or not some sub terminology is lacklustre. :lol:
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:56 pm

I think hearing the deities in Dragon Ball refer to the non-deities as “mortals” is a little weird, considering that most of Dragon Ball’s deities aren’t actually immortal. Besides, would someone like Roshi be considered a “mortal”?

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Cursed Lemon » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:43 pm

Because "Makkankosappo" sounds absolutely ridiculous in English.
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:47 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:43 pm
Because "Makkankosappo" sounds absolutely ridiculous in English.
Implying it isn't also ridiculous in Japanese.
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:55 pm

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:43 pm
Because "Makkankosappo" sounds absolutely ridiculous in English.
Or you could actually adapt the Japanese term as Viz did.

Though, Viz' localization has apparently gone to shit as of late, since the latest chapter of Super had 17 say "spoiler alert". I hate that shit, and it really makes me think of some of the dumb things FUNimation has done in the Super anime dub.
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:02 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:56 pm
I think hearing the deities in Dragon Ball refer to the non-deities as “mortals” is a little weird, considering that most of Dragon Ball’s deities aren’t actually immortal. Besides, would someone like Roshi be considered a “mortal”?
"Mortal" is just a term used to distinguish humans from gods. It doesn't necessarily mean that the gods can't die or anything.

Roshi is indeed a "mortal", despite his longevity. However, you could call him "immortal" as well, because of his apparent unnatural lifespan. I suppose one could argue he falls somewhere in between an ordinary human and a god.

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jun 04, 2020 7:05 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 6:02 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 1:56 pm
I think hearing the deities in Dragon Ball refer to the non-deities as “mortals” is a little weird, considering that most of Dragon Ball’s deities aren’t actually immortal. Besides, would someone like Roshi be considered a “mortal”?
"Mortal" is just a term used to distinguish humans from gods. It doesn't necessarily mean that the gods can't die or anything.

Roshi is indeed a "mortal", despite his longevity. However, you could call him "immortal" as well, because of his apparent unnatural lifespan. I suppose one could argue he falls somewhere in between an ordinary human and a god.
But since most of the gods in Dragon Ball can in fact die, whether by being killed, or from natural causes, them calling people like Goku “mortals” doesn’t really have much meaning to it. I’m not saying that “humans” works especially well either, but I’d argue that it has slightly more meaning than the former.

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:47 am

Metalwario64 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:55 pm
Cursed Lemon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:43 pm
Because "Makkankosappo" sounds absolutely ridiculous in English.
Or you could actually adapt the Japanese term as Viz did.
Solid point.

And honestly... I know people criticise it, but I think "Light of Death" has a nice ring to it. Is it the best possible adaptation of it? Probably not. But it's pretty solid.
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:20 pm

What about “Demon Drill Cannon”?

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:31 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:20 pm
What about “Demon Drill Cannon”?
Sure, that works too.
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Danfun64 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:38 pm

I like "Demon Drill Attack". It has the same amount of syllables as Makankosappo.
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by TheGreatness25 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:32 pm

Honestly, "demon" is fine. Anything to do with "drill" just sounds bizarre to me. I'd probably rather it stay as "Makankosappo."

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Yuli Ban » Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:39 pm

Tradition.

Nerd culture in the West has embraced the 1998-2003 dub and will viciously defend their nostalgia, so FUNimation won't change it.
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Aim » Sun Jun 07, 2020 10:50 am

Cursed Lemon wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:43 pm
Because "Makkankosappo" sounds absolutely ridiculous in English.
Because Special Beam Cannon is so much better, it doesn't sound alien, it sounds like something you'd see from a western 1980's cartoon show trying to imitate anime. Oh wait.
Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:47 pm
Implying it isn't also ridiculous in Japanese.
Exactly! Not to mention it is meant to sound strange in Japanese as well, considering Piccolo was still said to be a "demon". I'll have to find the source for that though, it was on a discussion on Kanzenshuu so I'll go search.
Metalwario64 wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:55 pm
Or you could actually adapt the Japanese term as Viz did.

Though, Viz' localization has apparently gone to shit as of late, since the latest chapter of Super had 17 say "spoiler alert". I hate that shit, and it really makes me think of some of the dumb things FUNimation has done in the Super anime dub.
Herms wrote:
Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:19 pm
Makankosappo is made up of five kanji: "demon/devil/magic", "pierce/penetrate", "light", "kill", and "cannon". There's really no "spiral" in there.
Herm's proposed "Devil Drill Death Cannon", however, I'm more inclined to go with something like "Demon Piercing Light Death Cannon". I ended up using this clip for reference to see if the mouth flaps would line up, and considering Piccolo actually says it pretty fast, it could work.

It's sad considering Viz is a part of Shuesha, aren't they? That they are allowing this crap to go through.

Don't get me started on Kintoun, I think it's fine like that , or even as Herm's said; "No, "Kintoun" actually means "somersault cloud". Since the word was taken directly from Chinese to Japanese, in Japanese the meaning becomes somewhat obscure.".

I think if another dub comes up they could do two versions with and without

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:34 am

Aim wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:21 am
Btw, is it "Nah(ar)-mek" or "Naw-mek"? I tried doing research but it was very confusing, still confused on how to put emphasis on the "mek".

I checked the manga, Viz version, and Trunks did clarify that they were Cyborgs, after calling them Androids, but I don't think it was corrected any further.

Is "Mechanical Human" a good translation that's also an umbrella term like the Japanese?
I'm assuming by "Nah-mek" you meant "NAAH-mek", as in "aah" being like "Aah! A spider!" rather than "Ah, I see.". FUNimation says "NAAH-mek", but it's supposed to be "nuh-MEK", or "naw-MEK". I believe that's how the Kai Ocean dub pronounces it. A good spelling would be "Namekk". It should end with two letters to show the emphasis goes on the second syllable.

The line of robotic creations made by Dr Gero are a part of his line of "Androids", even on the rare occasion that they are actually cyborgs. That's why Trunks specifies that they're technically cyborgs despite being "Android No. 17" and "Android No. 18".

So 人造人間 (Jinōningen), which Jisho.org lists as meaning "android; artificial human; robot​", is best translated as simply "Android". Similarly, Gokuh's 瞬間移動 (Shunkanidō) is best translated as "Teleportation", not literally as "Instantaneous Movement". No dictionary translates it that way. You gotta look at the whole word, not the individual kanjies.
WittyUsername wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:20 pm
What about “Demon Drill Cannon”?
I'm all for "Demon Drill Cannon", along with "Demon Beam" for "Makōsen", and "Demon Flash" for "Masenkō".
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:14 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:34 am
I'm assuming by "Nah-mek" you meant "NAAH-mek", as in "aah" being like "Aah! A spider!" rather than "Ah, I see.". FUNimation says "NAAH-mek", but it's supposed to be "nuh-MEK", or "naw-MEK". I believe that's how the Kai Ocean dub pronounces it. A good spelling would be "Namekk". It should end with two letters to show the emphasis goes on the second syllable.
"Nah-mek" pretty well transcribes it, but again, we have the clip of Scott McNeil saying it, so we don't have to argue about that. If you're confused, just watch the clip. https://youtu.be/T5SG5Spo4OY?t=459

First syllable is still emphasised as Scott says it (possibly they emphasise the second syllable in the dub itself, we don't know), but much like Kaioken, they actually use the correct sounds; "Nah" as in the English word "Nah", with an Ah sound as in "Ah yes," or "Car" without the C; the common mispronunciation that Funi introduced has the "Nah" more like the A sound in "Yam", "Ham", "Slam", etc. So, Funi's is almost like it's 'Nammeck, whereas the correct pronunciation is kinda like Narmeck.

If you wanted the second syllable emphasis to be clear in its spelling, probably Na'Mek is the one to go for.
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:34 am
The line of robotic creations made by Dr Gero are a part of his line of "Androids", even on the rare occasion that they are actually cyborgs. That's why Trunks specifies that they're technically cyborgs despite being "Android No. 17" and "Android No. 18".
So 人造人間 (Jinōningen), which Jisho.org lists as meaning "android; artificial human; robot​", is best translated as simply "Android".
Jinzoningen literally means "Artificial humanoids", and can refer to androids, cyborgs, robots, but also creatures like Cell or Baby, which we wouldn't refer to as androids or cyborgs.
This is how translation usually works; there's a term or two that doesn't cleanly go into English 100% of the time, so you choose an equivalent that works well enough. Android isn't a literal translation of "Jinzoningen", but it's a close enough equivalent that works fairly naturally in the dialogue. Just avoid using it to refer to Cell ("I am one of Gero's [jinzoningen]" becomes "I am one of Gero's creations", for instance), and you're good.
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:34 am
Similarly, Gokuh's
On a sidenote, bit of a nitpick -- "Gokuh" is a terrible romanisation of his name; it implies more of an "uhhh" like someone's forgotten the next word they were going to say, or a short U as in "Fuss". "Gokuu" is arguably the clearest, but "Goku" is usually preferred (though perhaps "Gokuu" would have led people to emphasise the second syllable, as it should be -- "go-KUU", rather than the American-style "GO-ku").
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:34 am
瞬間移動 (Shunkanidō) is best translated as "Teleportation", not literally as "Instantaneous Movement". No dictionary translates it that way. You gotta look at the whole word, not the individual kanjies.
Yeah.
In fairness, "Instantaneous movement", "Instant transmission", or the Ocean dub's "Instant translocation" all sound far more martial arts-y.

But yeah, "Teleportation" would probably make more sense, and be more straightforward. I guess all the weird names for it come from the flaws inherent to our main translations (Funi's take too many liberties and arguably miss the point, Simmons' subs tend to be extremely literal, and the Westwood Ocean dub ultimately had to adhere to Funimation's scripts, so any terminology changes had to be pronunciation differences like Kaioken, or remain close enough to still fit the flaps).
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:34 am
WittyUsername wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:20 pm
What about “Demon Drill Cannon”?
I'm all for "Demon Drill Cannon", along with "Demon Beam" for "Makōsen", and "Demon Flash" for "Masenkō".
Those sound good. Makes the connection clearer too. :)
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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Aim » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:32 am

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:34 am
Aim wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:21 am
Btw, is it "Nah(ar)-mek" or "Naw-mek"? I tried doing research but it was very confusing, still confused on how to put emphasis on the "mek".

I checked the manga, Viz version, and Trunks did clarify that they were Cyborgs, after calling them Androids, but I don't think it was corrected any further.

Is "Mechanical Human" a good translation that's also an umbrella term like the Japanese?
I'm assuming by "Nah-mek" you meant "NAAH-mek", as in "aah" being like "Aah! A spider!" rather than "Ah, I see.". FUNimation says "NAAH-mek", but it's supposed to be "nuh-MEK", or "naw-MEK". I believe that's how the Kai Ocean dub pronounces it. A good spelling would be "Namekk". It should end with two letters to show the emphasis goes on the second syllable.

The line of robotic creations made by Dr Gero are a part of his line of "Androids", even on the rare occasion that they are actually cyborgs. That's why Trunks specifies that they're technically cyborgs despite being "Android No. 17" and "Android No. 18".

So 人造人間 (Jinōningen), which Jisho.org lists as meaning "android; artificial human; robot​", is best translated as simply "Android". Similarly, Gokuh's 瞬間移動 (Shunkanidō) is best translated as "Teleportation", not literally as "Instantaneous Movement". No dictionary translates it that way. You gotta look at the whole word, not the individual kanjies.
WittyUsername wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:20 pm
What about “Demon Drill Cannon”?
I'm all for "Demon Drill Cannon", along with "Demon Beam" for "Makōsen", and "Demon Flash" for "Masenkō".
Looking at it as a whole makes a lot more sense, so "Teleportation" is better than "Instantaneous Movement" and "Instant Transmission"? And Namek is "N(uh)(aw) - MEKK"? So the "N(uh)(aw)" is pronounced quickly to emphasize the "MEKK"?

So it seems Android isn't far off, from what Toriyama had put anyway, if not the same, so even if they aren't technically Androids, Toriyama still called them that, so it should be that. I'm all about sticking as much to the original source as possible.

Makankosappo...Demon Pierce Cannon? It doesn't sound very natural in Japanese, does it? So what would be the most accurate translation to English? After what you said about looking at the whole word, I started thinking my previous suggestion wasn't actually accurate in the grand scheme of things.

Maybe keeping it as Makankosappo is better?
Robo4900 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:14 am
"Nah-mek" pretty well transcribes it, but again, we have the clip of Scott McNeil saying it, so we don't have to argue about that. If you're confused, just watch the clip. https://youtu.be/T5SG5Spo4OY?t=459

First syllable is still emphasised as Scott says it (possibly they emphasise the second syllable in the dub itself, we don't know), but much like Kaioken, they actually use the correct sounds; "Nah" as in the English word "Nah", with an Ah sound as in "Ah yes," or "Car" without the C; the common mispronunciation that Funi introduced has the "Nah" more like the A sound in "Yam", "Ham", "Slam", etc. So, Funi's is almost like it's 'Nammeck, whereas the correct pronunciation is kinda like Narmeck.

If you wanted the second syllable emphasis to be clear in its spelling, probably Na'Mek is the one to go for.
But for the most accurate translation, what would the best spelling be? We know the best pronunciation.
Jinzoningen literally means "Artificial humanoids", and can refer to androids, cyborgs, robots, but also creatures like Cell or Baby, which we wouldn't refer to as androids or cyborgs.
This is how translation usually works; there's a term or two that doesn't cleanly go into English 100% of the time, so you choose an equivalent that works well enough. Android isn't a literal translation of "Jinzoningen", but it's a close enough equivalent that works fairly naturally in the dialogue. Just avoid using it to refer to Cell ("I am one of Gero's [jinzoningen]" becomes "I am one of Gero's creations", for instance), and you're good.
Makes sense.
On a sidenote, bit of a nitpick -- "Gokuh" is a terrible romanisation of his name; it implies more of an "uhhh" like someone's forgotten the next word they were going to say, or a short U as in "Fuss". "Gokuu" is arguably the clearest, but "Goku" is usually preferred (though perhaps "Gokuu" would have led people to emphasise the second syllable, as it should be -- "go-KUU", rather than the American-style "GO-ku").
Which is the most accurate though? If it's Gokuu, then I feel it should be. Son Gokuu.
Yeah.
In fairness, "Instantaneous movement", "Instant transmission", or the Ocean dub's "Instant translocation" all sound far more martial arts-y.

But yeah, "Teleportation" would probably make more sense, and be more straightforward. I guess all the weird names for it come from the flaws inherent to our main translations (Funi's take too many liberties and arguably miss the point, Simmons' subs tend to be extremely literal, and the Westwood Ocean dub ultimately had to adhere to Funimation's scripts, so any terminology changes had to be pronunciation differences like Kaioken, or remain close enough to still fit the flaps).
Please tell me you have a secret, massive, super duper cool project that involves a possible new dub ;-O.

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:44 am

Aim wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:32 am
But for the most accurate translation, what would the best spelling be? We know the best pronunciation.
It comes from a Japanese root, so you can spell it however you like.
Aim wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:32 am
Which is the most accurate though? If it's Gokuu, then I feel it should be. Son Gokuu.
See above. Except it kinda comes from a Chinese root, but it's the Japanese reading. There's actually a strong argument for rendering his name as Sun Wukong instead (which can be translated as "Aware-of-Vacuity", or "He Who Understands The Emptiness", but that kind of misses the "Sky" meaning in the Japanese, as I recall?... Though that's not particularly evident however you render it in English, really, and besides that, all of these are pretty weird, clunky names to give a person; imagine if Goku's name was He Who Understands The Emptiness... "You haven’t figured it out yet? I’m the Saiyan who came all the way from Earth for the sole purpose of beating you. I am the warrior you’ve heard of in legends, pure of heart and awakened by fury. That’s what I am. I am the Super Saiyan, Aware-of-Vacuity!" :lol:), but provided we stick to the Japanese reading, there's no real better or worse spelling. Son Goku, Sonn Gokuu, Sohn Go'Kuu, Son Go-Ku, or anything else will work.

Personally, I say, since the spelling is essentially irrelevant (though, again, I take issue with spellings like "Gokuh", since IMO it looks like you're intending to pronounce it in a weird, incorrect way), it's best to just use the most common spelling, which happens to be Goku, or some minor variation on it, like Gokuu.

Similarly, I tend to say "Shen Long", which again comes from a Chinese root, but the dubs tend to adapt from the Japanese reading, which gives "Shenron". Arguably Shen Long should actually just be read as "The Dragon God" (since that's what Shen Long/Shenron means), or to borrow from Funi's early naming schemes, "The Eternal Dragon", but again, the subs use "Shen Long", and it's close to the dub, so if you say "Shen Long", you'll usually be understood.
Aim wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:32 am
Please tell me you have a secret, massive, super duper cool project that involves a possible new dub ;-O.
lol. That would be a lot of fun, and to be honest, I've often entertained the fantasy of producing some kind of Dragon Ball fandub, or a set of custom subtitles that fixes commonly-cited translation errors, conforms the terminology to my preferences, etc., but realistically, it's just not feasible, and it would be hard work using free time I just don't have enough of. But who knows, maybe one day Funimation would hire me as a script adaptor for a new, revised English dub of DB+Z+GT. :lol:
(More likely, Funi would hire me for the role of getting punched in the face by Chris Sabat for all the unreasonable, immature, mean shit I've said about him and the rest of the Funi cast on this forum :oops: :lol:)

I just like digging into the meanings behind the names and ideas in one of my favourite shows, so I've come to know a lot about the intricacies of the names of characters and things in Dragon Ball.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: SAY-IN - SPECIAL BEAM CAN-IN - SUN GOKU - DESTRUCTO DISK | Why does Dragon Ball STILL suffer with these shortcomings

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:25 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 5:46 pm
I’ve heard people say that the reason we still have terms like “Special Beam Cannon” and “Destructo Disk” is because Toei or Bandai or whoever insisted on that FUNimation stick with them. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but if it is, it would pretty much be in line with how Toho treats “Godzilla” as the proper way to say “Gojira” in English.
(This is a comment from the first page and I wasn't going to sift through six pages to see if any replied with what I'm about to post. If someone did, could you kindly say so and if possible show me)

I always wondered why there were trademarks and copyrights all over the Dragon Ball video games menus and UI. This makes a lot of sense. They probably could not trademark the japanese names for stuff in the US. But they could for the new made up names of stuffs and peoples.
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