Robo4900 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:14 am
First syllable is still emphasised as Scott says it (possibly they emphasise the second syllable in the dub itself, we don't know), but much like Kaioken, they actually use the correct sounds; "Nah" as in the English word "Nah", with an Ah sound as in "Ah yes," or "Car" without the C; the common mispronunciation that Funi introduced has the "Nah" more like the A sound in "Yam", "Ham", "Slam", etc. So, Funi's is almost like it's 'Nammeck, whereas the correct pronunciation is kinda like Narmeck.
If you wanted the second syllable emphasis to be clear in its spelling, probably Na'Mek is the one to go for.
Jinzoningen literally means "Artificial humanoids", and can refer to androids, cyborgs, robots, but also creatures like Cell or Baby, which we wouldn't refer to as androids or cyborgs.
This is how translation usually works; there's a term or two that doesn't cleanly go into English 100% of the time, so you choose an equivalent that works well enough. Android isn't a literal translation of "Jinzoningen", but it's a close enough equivalent that works fairly naturally in the dialogue. Just avoid using it to refer to Cell ("I am one of Gero's [jinzoningen]" becomes "I am one of Gero's creations", for instance), and you're good.
On a sidenote, bit of a nitpick -- "Gokuh" is a terrible romanisation of his name; it implies more of an "uhhh" like someone's forgotten the next word they were going to say, or a short U as in "Fuss". "Gokuu" is arguably the clearest, but "Goku" is usually preferred (though perhaps "Gokuu" would have led people to emphasise the second syllable, as it should be -- "go-KUU", rather than the American-style "GO-ku").
Yeah.
In fairness, "Instantaneous movement", "Instant transmission", or the Ocean dub's "Instant translocation" all sound far more martial arts-y.
But yeah, "Teleportation" would probably make more sense, and be more straightforward. I guess all the weird names for it come from the flaws inherent to our main translations (Funi's take too many liberties and arguably miss the point, Simmons' subs tend to be extremely literal, and the Westwood Ocean dub ultimately had to adhere to Funimation's scripts, so any terminology changes had to be pronunciation differences like Kaioken, or remain close enough to still fit the flaps).
Ah, misunderstanding. That's what I was trying to say. "Nah" as in "Ah, I see.", like McNeil says in the video, but with FUNimation's version being "Naah" as in "Aah! A spider!". Aah is not to be confused with "aah", tho, as in "Ahh, this hotspring feels good...". Thanks, English, for being so difficult. Lol.
I feel like "Namekk" would work best. The two Ks pull the emphasis to the second syllable, resulting in a pronunciation of "nuh-MEK", which is as close to the Japanese as you can get with keeping it a single word. "Na Mek" would be more accurate to the Japanese pronunciation, but when we leave it as a single word, the unstresst syllables will end up with our unstresst vowel: "uh". But oh well. That's just how we English.
Agreed. You gotta be consistent with translations, but you also have to adapt situation by situation. Cell isn't a part of the Androids line, and probably doesn't have any robotic parts, so suddenly 人造人間 (jinōningen) has to be translated differently. And "artificial human" isn't much better, since he's also not meant to be a human. Haha. "Creation" is probably the best translation there, since that's the point of that line.
My argument for Toriyama in using "Gokuh" is that it's
not meant to be his name "in English", but rather, his name "in the Latin alphabet". You see stuff like "maoh" and Yu-Gi-Oh! using that for O's, and it conveniently works in English, but "UH" doesn't, and neither does "DZI" like in "Godzilla". It's "Go-dzi-lla", with the DZ making a J-sound. These are all old styles of Latinization that were common in the 80s. But even still, UH manages to work out fine for Final Fantasy players with the eidolan Ramuh (ラムウ, Ramū). People pronounce it correctly even! But...I heard that Toriyama used "Goku" at some point too? Can't find it, and saw no source, but if he did, they I'm willing to use "Goku" again. Haha
Martial arts-y, yes, but the people he learnd it from weren't martial art-y, were they? I suppose I don't really recall...
Yeah, and I believe it was Daimao's first professional translation. Well, as professional as it could be with Funimation at the type. It was basically like doing fansubs from VHS tapes. Haha. And as for Tomato's subtitles for the original DB, also his first professional translation I believe. I know it would be VERY different if he re-translated it. But since none of that'll happen, I've been touching up the translations myself. I feel like it goes a long way in making it more enjoyable for some-one who's never read or seen the series.
Aim wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:32 am
Looking at it as a whole makes a lot more sense, so "Teleportation" is better than "Instantaneous Movement" and "Instant Transmission"? And Namek is "N(uh)(aw) - MEKK"? So the "N(uh)(aw)" is pronounced quickly to emphasize the "MEKK"?
Makankosappo...Demon Pierce Cannon? It doesn't sound very natural in Japanese, does it? So what would be the most accurate translation to English? After what you said about looking at the whole word, I started thinking my previous suggestion wasn't actually accurate in the grand scheme of things.
Maybe keeping it as Makankosappo is better?
Which is the most accurate though? If it's Gokuu, then I feel it should be. Son Gokuu.
Yes, exactly. They simply taught him "teleportation". And nuh-MEK, or naw-MEK if you prefer, is how you'd say Namekk (ナメック, Namekku) in English. I spell it with two Ks to force the emphasis on the second syllable. It'd be like if you took the English word
level and wanted to make a new name based on it, but with the emphasis on the second syllable. You'd spell it
levell, and then everyone would pronounce it as you intended.
Makakosappō is a difficult one to translate. His moves are MEANT to be complex and Japanese, where-as Gokuh's are silly Japanese, and Vegeta's are English. That doesn't mean you SHOULDN'T translate Makankosapō (and his other moves), but it does leave the door open for options.
Technically, 悟空 is...Gokū, Gokuu, Gokuh, Goku, Gokou, or Gokoo. Depending on the style of Latinization. The first two examples match Latin rules, the third tries to create new rules, the fourth ignores the long vowel, fifth and sixth use English rules (so does the second example). There's really no "correct" way, which is why this stuff gets argued. That and the fact that different companies and translators have used most of those examples all in official products. Most people outside Japan now use a style of Latinization that would result in the first example: Gokū. So,
Son Gokū is probably the BEST choice... But the Dragon Ball series has never used ANY diacritics in English, as far as I'm aware. Which is fine. what matters most to ME is that the spelling makes sense, the author is okay with the spelling, and it's being pronounced correctly.