Should fans write for official products ?

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Matches Malone
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Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Matches Malone » Sun May 24, 2020 1:00 am

This topic was inspired by MistareFusion's review of Episode of Bardock, in which he says its quality could be the results of the writer being a Bardock fan. Toyotaro has also been called out for playing favoritism to certain characters due to him being fans of them.

My question is, if the original author won't or can't write for the franchise anymore, then who should ? Should it be fans like the above ? Fans do have a good understanding of what they like, but they can also be bias for certain things that may not be best for the story. Or should it be an outsider who has no connection to the franchise, and is just trying to write a good story based on one or two reads of what came before ? This can avoid biases finding their way into the story, but it may bring plot holes due to the writer not being familiar with the franchise's small details.

I always try to give my opinion while writing a topic, but this is one that I'm honestly not sure of, so what do you all think ? I'm looking forward to your views in hopes of getting a better understanding on this as I form my own.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun May 24, 2020 1:28 am

Good is good. I don't think Episode of Bardock is bad because a fan wrote it, I think it's bad because it's a commercial piece of shit contoured by a Shueisha editor to be marketable.

Fans make good stuff as labors of love, free of commercial restrictions, so clearly they aren't the issue so much as Shueisha's desire for riches.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by goku the krump dancer » Sun May 24, 2020 2:38 am

In the right hands yes! Halloween 2018 was great because the directors were actual fans of the series. There’re other examples that I can’t think of off head where fans of a certain medium or series become part of it and do really well.

Granted that doesn’t mean that companies should Willy Nilly hand out offers to fans to put out official products, it’s a tricky situation.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by ABED » Sun May 24, 2020 6:37 am

There's a big difference between a fan writing something and a professional writers writing something they're a fan of. Plenty of writers are fans of shows they end up getting staffed on.
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:28 am
Good is good. I don't think Episode of Bardock is bad because a fan wrote it, I think it's bad because it's a commercial piece of shit contoured by a Shueisha editor to be marketable.

Fans make good stuff as labors of love, free of commercial restrictions, so clearly they aren't the issue so much as Shueisha's desire for riches.
DB was always a commercial product.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun May 24, 2020 9:35 am

ABED wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:37 am
DB was always a commercial product.
Duh. It just had louder creative voices shine through the bullshit commercial aspects.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sun May 24, 2020 9:42 am

I don't see the problem with fans writing official products if there are checks in place. A lot of fans might cling to old, nostalgia-based visions rather than taking things further along.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by ABED » Sun May 24, 2020 10:11 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:35 am
ABED wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:37 am
DB was always a commercial product.
Duh. It just had louder creative voices shine through the bullshit commercial aspects.
And what are the "commercial aspects"?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Skar » Sun May 24, 2020 11:54 am

ABED wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:11 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:35 am
ABED wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 6:37 am
DB was always a commercial product.
Duh. It just had louder creative voices shine through the bullshit commercial aspects.
And what are the "commercial aspects"?
I think they mean mainly focusing on what would have the most mass appeal and less willing to take risks. Of course, Toriyama wanted to make money drawing manga but he still took risks with some major creative choices like when he was discouraged from turning Goku into an adult and that he would fail if he took a shonen manga to space.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Ringworm128 » Sun May 24, 2020 12:00 pm

You can't really say "yes" or "no" to this question. One fan could write junk, while another could write a fan favorite story.
If you have to write a small thesis every time you respond to a post you're not an intellectual, you're just bad at making your point.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by ABED » Sun May 24, 2020 12:04 pm

Skar wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 11:54 am
ABED wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:11 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 9:35 am


Duh. It just had louder creative voices shine through the bullshit commercial aspects.
And what are the "commercial aspects"?
I think they mean mainly focusing on what would have the most mass appeal and less willing to take risks. Of course, Toriyama wanted to make money drawing manga but he still took risks with some major creative choices like when he was discouraged from turning Goku into an adult and that he would fail if he took a shonen manga to space.
And keeping things in stasis can also be a risk since audiences can grow bored. We don't know exactly what will have sustainable mass appeal.
Taking the manga to space was a risk? I can buy someone thinking that, but no way I buy that it was risky.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Matches Malone » Sun May 24, 2020 1:03 pm

ABED wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:04 pm
And keeping things in stasis can also be a risk since audiences can grow bored.
According to Torishima, he believed that turning the protagonist into an adult was risky because it wasn't common in Shonen back then for the main character to undergo a massive change like that. Today is the complete opposite, as not only is it normal, it's expected. Back in 88-89 when Goku was reintroduced as an adult, I can definitely understand their concerns.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by ABED » Sun May 24, 2020 1:07 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:03 pm
ABED wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 12:04 pm
And keeping things in stasis can also be a risk since audiences can grow bored.
According to Torishima, he believed that turning the protagonist into an adult was risky because it wasn't common in Shonen back then for the main character to undergo a massive change like that. Today is the complete opposite, as not only is it normal, it's expected. Back in 88-89 when Goku was reintroduced as an adult, I can definitely understand their concerns.
I'm well aware of this fact.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Grimlock » Sun May 24, 2020 1:20 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:00 am
This topic was inspired by MistareFusion's review of Episode of Bardock, in which he says its quality could be the results of the writer being a Bardock fan.
Then we should get rid of the ones right now in charge of writing, as they're clearly Goku and Vegeta fans. We should also get rid of nostalgic writers, as it also affects the quality.

Anyway, I think Ringworm128 hit the nail here. Quality may come from anyone actually, we just need to be lucky.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by ABED » Sun May 24, 2020 1:44 pm

Grimlock wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:20 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:00 am
This topic was inspired by MistareFusion's review of Episode of Bardock, in which he says its quality could be the results of the writer being a Bardock fan.
Then we should get rid of the ones right now in charge of writing, as they're clearly Goku and Vegeta fans. We should also get rid of nostalgic writers, as it also affects the quality.

Anyway, I think Ringworm128 hit the nail here. Quality may come from anyone actually, we just need to be lucky.
Dragon Ball is Goku's story!
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by KorgDTR2000 » Sun May 24, 2020 1:45 pm

You just have to look at American comics to see how that plays out.

It can lead to amazing work and it can lead to fanwanking. Too often it plays out as one writer just undoing all the things they didn't like about a previous writer's work.

A writer of anything already established should be enough of a fan to understand what they're working on, but not so passionate that they bring with them a ton of biases, head canons and baggage, and it becomes a case of the inmates running the asylum.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Matches Malone » Sun May 24, 2020 1:50 pm

KorgDTR2000 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:45 pm
A writer of anything already established should be enough of a fan to understand what they're working on, but not so passionate that they bring with them a ton of biases, head canons and baggage, and it becomes a case of the inmates running the asylum.
This is pretty much where I stand on the topic. The writer should like what they're working on, but not to the point of being a bias fanboy.

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun May 24, 2020 2:30 pm

KorgDTR2000 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:45 pm
You just have to look at American comics to see how that plays out.

It can lead to amazing work and it can lead to fanwanking. Too often it plays out as one writer just undoing all the things they didn't like about a previous writer's work.

A writer of anything already established should be enough of a fan to understand what they're working on, but not so passionate that they bring with them a ton of biases, head canons and baggage, and it becomes a case of the inmates running the asylum.
The issue there is that they're trying to maintain a canon, which was their first mistake.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sun May 24, 2020 2:31 pm

As long as its not TFS I am okay.
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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by Robo4900 » Sun May 24, 2020 2:33 pm

Being a fan does not preclude good writing.

Not only is this so obviously crazy to me, it's kinda provably nonsense...
Russell T Davies, Andrew Cartmel, and... Well, to be honest, every head writer of Doctor Who from about the mid or late '70s-ish onwards was a fan before they wrote for it. As is everyone who's done anything in the Star Wars universe since pretty much right after the original movie came out. Including fan-beloved Dave Filoni, who's responsible for Clone Wars, Mandalorian, etc... All Star Trek after the Original Series was done by fans pretty much.

The problem isn't that modern Dragon Ball has fans writing for it, the problem is they have bad writers writing for it.
"This feels like fanfic" isn't an inherent problem with fans writing it, it's a problem with writers who are not very good.
A somewhat self-indulgent thesis on my current outlook on Dragon Ball fandom, which I feel should be below every post I make from now on:

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Re: Should fans write for official products ?

Post by ABED » Sun May 24, 2020 2:37 pm

Filoni's highly overrated, and he wasn't the one responsible for The Mandalorian, Favreau was. Filoni plays a part, but it's Favreau's show. He is a fan though, but thus far doesn't strike me as someone who gives into fanservice, though this coming season has me fearing he and Filoni will.
"This feels like fanfic" isn't an inherent problem with fans writing it, it's a problem with writers who are not very good.
It does since fanfic is terrible.
The issue there is that they're trying to maintain a canon, which was their first mistake.
Agreed.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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