Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Tue May 26, 2020 9:42 pm

In hindsight I think it's neat the DB movies aren't full feature length. With most being more like double-length episodes/specials, you dont need to commit as much time to watch them. So if you got an hour to kill, and have a real urge for some DB, it's a nice tidy self-contained package that should satisfy. :) :)
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sun May 31, 2020 5:20 am

That's actually a pretty damn good question. Dragon Ball was a white-hot property, and it would've earned gangbusters by the early 90s. Any answer I could give would just be speculation.

It might've simply been that it just never happened by honest mistake.
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:25 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:21 am
How dare you, sir? The scenes with Pilaf weren't time wasted.
Nonsense, they dragged that film time in a big way. A 80 minute movie that had about a 10 minute waste of space subsplot with the Pilaf Gang that should have gone towards something else.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:33 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:25 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 11:21 am
How dare you, sir? The scenes with Pilaf weren't time wasted.
Nonsense, they dragged that film time in a big way. A 80 minute movie that had about a 10 minute waste of space subsplot with the Pilaf Gang that should have gone towards something else.
If it's entertaining, then it's time well spent.
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:44 pm

There was literally zero staff available. Besides, Movie #11 and #17 are both longer than the other films. There's your theatrical film.
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:57 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:33 pm
If it's entertaining, then it's time well spent.
This is also nonsense in itself but no it wasn't entertaining. It was childish and useless filler in a movie that was already thin on actual story to begin with.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ABED » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:48 pm

Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:57 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:33 pm
If it's entertaining, then it's time well spent.
This is also nonsense in itself but no it wasn't entertaining. It was childish and useless filler in a movie that was already thin on actual story to begin with.
How is it nonsense? Storytelling only has one rule - don't be boring.

I and MANY found it entertaining and that's all that matters. If you didn't that's okay.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:17 pm

ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:48 pm
How is it nonsense? Storytelling only has one rule - don't be boring.
Again this is complete and utter nonsense. By your own logic it would be alright if a movie like The Dark Knight had a 20 minute comedy segment in the middle of the movie that had nothing to do with the rest of the plot just so long as it had some funny jokes.

Jaws would have still been a good movie if it had an entertaining song and dance sequence inbetween all the shark killings.
I and MANY found it entertaining and that's all that matters. If you didn't that's okay.
And many also found it to be childish filler because that's literally what it was. Thankfully Resurrection F and Broly fixed this problem and ended up being more popular movies as a result.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:57 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:17 pm
ABED wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:48 pm
How is it nonsense? Storytelling only has one rule - don't be boring.
Again this is complete and utter nonsense. By your own logic it would be alright if a movie like The Dark Knight had a 20 minute comedy segment in the middle of the movie that had nothing to do with the rest of the plot just so long as it had some funny jokes.

Jaws would have still been a good movie if it had an entertaining song and dance sequence inbetween all the shark killings.
I and MANY found it entertaining and that's all that matters. If you didn't that's okay.
And many also found it to be childish filler because that's literally what it was. Thankfully Resurrection F and Broly fixed this problem and ended up being more popular movies as a result.
First, if those stories could get the reaction they were going for and add superfluous scenes why not, but chances are they couldn't. Second, there are no rules of writing beyond not being boring. The only aim is to get the audience to emotionally invest and have some sort of catharsis by the end. There are no dogmatic rules. The "rules" are simply conventions that have a tendency to get the desired reaction from the audience.

Third, DB is not a monster movie or an neo-noir. It's a martial arts fantasy seasoned with the author's quirky sense of humor. A humorous digression like Pilaf gathering the DB's is at home in DB.

Resurrection F and Broly were boring and pure fanservice. I saw Battle of Gods in the theater and the Pilaf scenes went over huge. Battle of Gods' success paved the way for DB's revival and resulting modern boom period. Your explanation as to why Broly and RoF made more money than BoG is reductive.

Lastly, DB is childish as in it is literally for children.

You keep telling me that my point is nonsense (thank you for that), but never why. Why is it nonsense to claim there is only one rule in storytelling?
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:23 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:57 am
First, if those stories could get the reaction they were going for and add superfluous scenes why not, but chances are they couldn't. Second, there are no rules of writing beyond not being boring.
It's a good thing you aren't a writer because you haven't got a clue at all. Even that line about "the one rule beyond not being boring" is a load of nonsense. It's perfectly fine if they write a completely horrific story or offensive story or a story that doesn't make any sense whatsoever....it's just not allowed to be boring because that's against the rules lol.
A humorous digression like Pilaf gathering the DB's is at home in DB.
I'm sure it is but it had absolutely no place taking up 1/8th of the movies run time when the scenes amounted to nothing but childish gags when the main plot of the movie had hardly any plot as it was.

Main characters like Vegeta who had no more than 3 minutes worth of action, Gohan about 15 seconds, Piccolo less than that and Krillin none at all just so characters nobody really cares for in the first place could have a longer unfunny segment for themselves that brought the movie down.
Resurrection F and Broly were boring and pure fanservice. I saw Battle of Gods in the theater and the Pilaf scenes went over huge.
They had the fan service that fans actually wanted to see. Fans of Dragon Ball don't go and pay to see Dragon Ball movies to see Pilaf spray painting poo on walls and it was no surprise that it was criticized so much especially when the movie had little action, the thing that fans do pay to see.

Resurrection F and Broly made the correct choice in completely removing that kind of nonsense to replace it with more action and the movies were more popular and more successful because of it.

Battle of Gods was just party filler.
Lastly, DB is childish as in it is literally for children.
There's a difference between something being aimed at children and something being childish. Disney movies like Frozen or Zootopia are for for children, they aren't childish.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:42 pm

They had the fan service that fans actually wanted to see. Fans of Dragon Ball don't go and pay to see Dragon Ball movies to see Pilaf spray painting poo on walls and it was no surprise that it was criticized so much especially when the movie had little action, the thing that fans do pay to see.
Yes, because that's what fanservice is - things fans want to see. And your statement about what was criticized is anecdotal. I saw it in theaters and people laughed.
Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:23 pm
There's a difference between something being aimed at children and something being childish. Disney movies like Frozen or Zootopia are for for children, they aren't childish.
Could you pick less apt examples? DB is a gag manga. It has smiley faced poo on a stick, a deity who thinks puns are the apex of comedy, and a group of dancing lackies named after food. DB is goofy.
Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 1:23 pm
It's a good thing you aren't a writer because you haven't got a clue at all. Even that line about "the one rule beyond not being boring" is a load of nonsense. It's perfectly fine if they write a completely horrific story or offensive story or a story that doesn't make any sense whatsoever....it's just not allowed to be boring because that's against the rules lol.
How is that nonsense?

Yes, in a nutshell, you can write whatever you want but just don't be boring. It's meant to be vague because what constitutes being interesting varies from person to person and what illicits an emotional reaction from an audience varies wildly.

The rules about set ups and payoffs aren't really rules as much as guidelines because we see from enough audiences over time that when a character's journey is paid off or something is cleverly set up, audiences react well to it.
I'm sure it is but it had absolutely no place taking up 1/8th of the movies run time when the scenes amounted to nothing but childish gags when the main plot of the movie had hardly any plot as it was.
Dragon Ball isn't plot driven. There aren't a lot of complicated twists and turns. They're usually very simple set ups that lead to a few fights. And yet again, your view of why the subsequent films were successful is reductive. The audiences built after the franchise dormant for years. BoG's success proved DB's continued financial viability. It wasn't open in enough theaters to make as much money as the sequels which had also two of the most well known characters in the franchise headlining as the antagonists.
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:34 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:42 pm
I saw it in theaters and people laughed.
Yeah I'm sure all the little 7 year olds were in hysterics.
DB is a gag manga. It has smiley faced poo on a stick, a deity who thinks puns are the apex of comedy, and a group of dancing lackies named after food. DB is goofy.
Dragon Ball was a gag manga. Dragon Ball Z not nearly to the same extent. Battle of Gods was a Dragon Ball Z movie. It's terrible attempt at humour was ill fitting with what people wanted from it.

Resurrection F and Broly corrected Battle of Gods mistake.
Yes, in a nutshell, you can write whatever you want but just don't be boring.
You're spouting more nonsense by the post when you say things like this.
Dragon Ball isn't plot driven. There aren't a lot of complicated twists and turns. They're usually very simple set ups that lead to a few fights.
And yet again this is even more nonsense. Just because it doesn't have the most complex writing doesn't mean that the series doesn't have a story. It's major arcs have a proper beginning, middle and end. There's reasons for why the characters are in conflict and do what they do.

Battles of Gods was nonsense. The movie was incompetently written. It had a beginning which was somewhat decent, a middle that was useless filler and an end that was just the main battle. A conflict that began because Beerus just happened to have a prophecy which is lousy writing and the actual conflict began over a pudding gag.

Don't excuse it's lack of complexity for writing that was inferior to most fan made drivel.
BoG's success proved DB's continued financial viability. It wasn't open in enough theaters to make as much money as the sequels which had also two of the most well known characters in the franchise headlining as the antagonists.
That only concerns the worldwide gross. The difference in Japan wasnt nearly as significant and didn't stop Battle of Gods from being the least successful.

Also don't try to make excuses for it being less successful. Resurrection F having Frieza back yet again is not a bigger draw than being the first theatrical movie in 17 years, the first movie written by Toriyama and the first full length Dragon Ball movie.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:53 pm

It was mostly people in their 20s and we laughed. Regardless of your taste in comedy, people enjoyed themselves.
Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:34 pm
Dragon Ball was a gag manga. Dragon Ball Z not nearly to the same extent. Battle of Gods was a Dragon Ball Z movie. It's terrible attempt at humour was ill fitting with what people wanted from it.
It's ALL Dragon Ball. Majin Buu is a pink bubble gum looking monster who likes to turn people into candy. Piccolo Daimao is afraid of rice cooker! There are fart and sex jokes. DB isn't all action all the time. And you aren't the arbiter of what people wanted. I heard the theater, and the people were enjoying themselves.
And yet again this is even more nonsense. Just because it doesn't have the most complex writing doesn't mean that the series doesn't have a story.
Not once did I write that it didn't have a story. The plots are usually very simple. That's not a bad thing. BoG has a very simple story. It doesn't need a lot of screen time for its plot. It can just spend time letting the audience spend time with old friends.

And yet again, why is "don't be boring is the only rule" nonsense?
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:13 pm

RF isn’t exactly devoid of juvenile humor. I mean, there’s a scene in the movie where Whis accidentally steps in some pink poop.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:03 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 3:53 pm
It was mostly people in their 20s and we laughed.
Yes, I'm sure all you adults laughed at the poo joke.
It's ALL Dragon Ball. Majin Buu is a pink bubble gum looking monster who likes to turn people into candy. Piccolo Daimao is afraid of rice cooker! There are fart and sex jokes. DB isn't all action all the time.
That was a character design and it's "gag" was to subvert expectations. Him turning people into candy and King Piccolo being afraid of rice cooker, which he actually isn't, he's afraid of the technique that may leave him sealed away in it are also not gags.

Even then these gags are used as brief jokes, not as filler in a short movie with already no plot.
Not once did I write that it didn't have a story. The plots are usually very simple. That's not a bad thing. BoG has a very simple story. It doesn't need a lot of screen time for its plot. It can just spend time letting the audience spend time with old friends.
Pitiful excuses. Dragon Balls plot was never complex but it was never so simple that a small child could write it. It had a full well told story.

It wasn't that Battle of Gods even had a simple story, it had next to no story at all, it had an opening premise and a final battle then had no idea what it was supposed to do for the entire middle act so it was just random antics, filler.

It "didn't need a lot of screen time for it's plot" because it had no plot. It didn't even need to be 80 minutes. It had less than an hour's worth of plot.

"Letting the audience spend time with old friends" extreme cringiness aside, that was the middle act of the movie. Filler. It's why so incompetent as a movie.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:52 pm

I didn't take a poll but I heard a good amount of laughter. Why would I make something so inane up?
Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:03 pm
Pitiful excuses. Dragon Balls plot was never complex but it was never so simple that a small child could write it. It had a full well told story.
Yeah they did. Aliens come from outer-space and try to kill people to gain immortality, martial artists try to stop them. Battle of Gods doesn't have much of a plot but it's story is very simple - a god comes to challenge Goku and Goku realizes the universe is bigger than he could've imagined. There's always someone stronger is a central theme of Dragon Ball.
Even then these gags are used as brief jokes, not as filler in a short movie with already no plot.
Plot is not the most important thing in a story.
That was a character design and it's "gag" was to subvert expectations. Him turning people into candy and King Piccolo being afraid of rice cooker, which he actually isn't, he's afraid of the technique that may leave him sealed away in it are also not gags.
Yes they are, they are clear cut gags. Instead of making the container for the king of all demons something simple or ornate or anything else, it comes in the form of a cooking device. It's clearly meant to amuse the audience and undercut the seriousness of the story

Yet again you evade the question - what is wrong with the idea that there's only one rule in fiction?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Toxin45 » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:02 pm

Guess some people never thought possible back in the day

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:19 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:52 pm
Why would I make something so inane up?
Because you want to try and prove your point.
Yeah they did. Aliens come from outer-space and try to kill people to gain immortality, martial artists try to stop them.
Lol no, anyone one can do that kind of half assed break down with anything. That series Death Note which is more complex and we'll written can be broken down to "A guy uses a Death Note to kill criminals and so a detective tries to stop him".

It wasn't exactly complex why the Saiyans came to Earth, but there was a proper reason as to why it all happened. Beginning with Raditz heading there, the Scouters being used to listen in, hearing the explanation of the Dragon Balls, the Z Fighters teaming up because they know the threat they create etc.

It's nothing like Battle of Gods and Beerus waking up going "Hey wasn't there something about a Super Saiyan God? I guess I'll go to Earth then".
Plot is not the most important thing in a story.
Lol it gets worse. Still the movie had little else going for it story wise so it's not like it sacrificed it's plot to make something else stand out.
Instead of making the container for the king of all demons something simple or ornate or anything else, it comes in the form of a cooking device.
That's not a childish gag and the equivalent of running around drawing poo in an attempt to actually make people laugh.
Yet again you evade the question - what is wrong with the idea that there's only one rule in fiction?
That you made up the "rule" in the first place.

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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:07 am

Xeno Goku Black wrote:
Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:19 pm
That you made up the "rule" in the first place.
All of this shit is made up. All the supposed rules of fiction are made up and you yet again evade the damn question - why is that a nonsense rule? For someone who takes such a strong position you have yet to defend it once. The reason there is only one rule is because they're all mutable. Any of them can be broken and the story can still get the desired reaction. You are so incapable of reading you brushed over the explanation of how the rules of fiction were arrived at in the first place. These aren't rules from on high, and they aren't like natural law that are immutable. They're guides to help storytellers get the desired emotional reaction from the audience or readers. For every supposed rule, there's an example of something that successfully breaks the rule. Dragon Ball isn't a well written show and yet the audience has invested emotionally with the characters and is still a success decades later.
Lol it gets worse.
Stop being a jerk. Why are you being so rude over something so trivial like Dragon Ball? If you want to discuss this fine but stop acting like this all self evident because that's just plain ignorant. You never EVER give counterpoints to this you just obnoxiously laugh out of your own ignorance.
That series Death Note which is more complex and we'll written can be broken down to "A guy uses a Death Note to kill criminals and so a detective tries to stop him".
Yeah and? Death Note is NOT well written and its story CAN be broken down to be something as simple as Light Yagami finds a book capable of killing anyone, develops a god complex, and falls into psychopathy. Whatever the twists and turns of the plot are, that's what the story of Death Note is. Just like DB is the story of Son Goku quest to be the best martial artist he can be.
It's nothing like Battle of Gods and Beerus waking up going "Hey wasn't there something about a Super Saiyan God? I guess I'll go to Earth then".
DB is a story where one of the bad guys' grand wish was to grow a few inches taller.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Why wasn’t there a proper theatrical Dragon Ball film back in the day?

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Wed Jun 24, 2020 2:01 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Jun 24, 2020 5:07 am
All of this shit is made up. All the supposed rules of fiction are made up and you yet again evade the damn question - why is that a nonsense rule?
So you're asking me why a rule you made up in your own mind is a nonsense rule?
You never EVER give counterpoints to this you just obnoxiously laugh out of your own ignorance.
Because you don't seem to realise how silly your own counterpoints are. The plot is not the most important part of the story...and you actually said it seriously as well. How do you not laugh at that. Without a plot, Dragon Ball would be about a bunch of characters doing nothing but interacting, it'd be a sitcom.
Yeah and? Death Note is NOT well written
Lol it continues to get even worse.
IDB is a story where one of the bad guys' grand wish was to grow a few inches taller.
Wrong, Dragon Ball is a story that contains a joke about a bad guy wishing to grow a few inches story. The story is not about that joke.

This is also moving away from Battle of Gods having an irrelevant and unfunny 10 minute long filler subplot that does not aid the extremely thin main plot. That main plot could have used those 10 minutes to enhance the story or give other popular characters more presence.

This is where Resurrection F fixed the mistake. That movie has a 10 minute scene where the Z Fighters battle the Frieza Force instead of that movie spending the same amount of time on the Pilaf Gang drawing poo.

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