Shintani's style doesn't do it for me

[JulieYBM]

Taking the time to start from scratch would have taken longer.

This is exactly what they should've done, take their time. So many problems for both the fans and staff could've been avoided by not rushing things. I'm really happy to see them taking their time now with Super 2.0 and getting it right.

Capitalism, honey! Gotta make every dollar ever right this second, not tomorrow! Fuck the labor, we need our expensive condos and yachts NOW!!

[Jord]

Taking the time to start from scratch would have taken longer.

This is exactly what they should've done, take their time. So many problems for both the fans and staff could've been avoided by not rushing things. I'm really happy to see them taking their time now with Super 2.0 and getting it right.

You actually believe they are working on Super 2.0?

[Matches Malone]

You actually believe they are working on Super 2.0?

One of the producers said they were using this year to ensure enough steps are taken to prevent its return from being a production mess when it returns.

[JulieYBM]

Ajay made it pretty clear in his last update that the series isn't in production. I would most definitely love for them to not be fucking blocheads and already have scripts and storyboards in the can, even if the animation doesn't start until 2022 but this likely isn't happening and would likely never happen.

[Jord]

You actually believe they are working on Super 2.0?

One of the producers said they were using this year to ensure enough steps are taken to prevent its return from being a production mess when it returns.

That may be but I would start looking forward to it the moment it's actually announced. However which way you look at it, a DB series is made to make money. The past few years showed that the Dragon Ball brand doesn't actually need an expensive show to turn out a profit. Broly was a huge success. I can easily see them taking the movie approach for a while.

[Aim]

Shintani's designs replicate an era of Dragon Ball between the early Z era, and mid Z era, not to mention they are incredibly close to the manga, which honestly is what the show should be like.

It also helps that Toriyama picked Shintani. I know tons of people compare Shintani to Takahashi, but honestly, the over the top shading and exaggeration of Takahashi's Yamamuro style, but considering Toriyama didn't choose him makes me think Shintani has something he doesn't. I personally feel Takahashi's style is prime Yamamuro toned up a bit more, which sometimes doesn't feel like Dragon Ball, in DBS: Broly, Takahashi's scenes stood out like a sore thumb, and I could tell when certain animators were there to animate their section of the movie, which really just made it stand out more, and stopped it from flowing like the old movies did. I think consistency is key, Takahashi did wonders for Super, but I personally wouldn't want him doing the designs, they don't feel very Toriyama if they are over used. My ideal scenario would be to have Toriyama have a go at doing designs, I think it would be fun to see how animators try and translate drawings from the hands of the actual creator to the screen.

[YuseiFudou]

I don't like the soft look in Shintani's style

I kept thinking to myself, what is it that I don't like about it? Cause I couldn't put my finger on it and find the right word for it, but now I do. I too don't like how it has that soft look.

[JulieYBM]

I'd love to see a Shintani-led movie where he lent more into the look of the old Yamashita Taka'aki Digimon films. The Digimon Adventure and Digimon Adventure 02 films were super gorgeous using their kagenashi style.

I really want to see what Ishitani Megumi can pull off with Shintani as character designer and animation supervisor. With her I think we might have something close to another Matsumoto Rie or Kamatani Haruka. Some of the most interesting directors out of Toei for the past 15 years have been women who mostly pair with strong character animators, whether it's Matsumoto Rie/Hayashi Yuuki (Kyousougiga) or Kamatani Haruka/Watanabe Koudai (Tiger Mask W). I definitely feel like there's room for Ishitani/Shintani to become a new golden pair for the studio and I really hope that gets to happen on Dragon Ball, where their reach would be longest.

[TheGreatness25]

I'm half and half on it, really. I think my biggest thing is that it looks like a degeneration. Because it does look more like the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, it's kind of like taking steps backward. On the other hand, it was different and fresh and really did strike this weird nostalgia chord with me (especially Vegeta's face -- I know it's random lol).

I guess my favorites look of Dragon Ball is forgotten to time lol I really like the look like when Goku turns to Freeza as a Super Saiyan for the first time or when Trunks is talking up Cell after going past Super Saiyan. It's hard to explain. Their faces are a bit wide.

[FortuneSSJ]

Yuya Takahashi would be better but Shintani is cool too, even though some characters may look younger than they should be.
We need a talented counterpart like that for the writing department. Current Toriyama and Toyotaro aren't good enough.

[Vijay]

I'm half and half on it, really. I think my biggest thing is that it looks like a degeneration. Because it does look more like the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, it's kind of like taking steps backward. On the other hand, it was different and fresh and really did strike this weird nostalgia chord with me (especially Vegeta's face -- I know it's random lol).

I guess my favorites look of Dragon Ball is forgotten to time lol I really like the look like when Goku turns to Freeza as a Super Saiyan for the first time or when Trunks is talking up Cell after going past Super Saiyan. It's hard to explain. Their faces are a bit wide.

Basically Maeda & Sato's work lol

Those episodes you mentioned, Goku turnin to Frieza as SSJ, and USSJ Trunks takin on Cell (DBZ episode 164 iirc) specifically lol.

And yeah, I liked their works as well. Their style blended really well be it DB or Z. But we know how Toriyama's artsyle got more sharp & angular, stark contrast to his rounded DB style.

If they work on a DBS film today, it'll be rad no joke

[JulieYBM]

I'm half and half on it, really. I think my biggest thing is that it looks like a degeneration. Because it does look more like the original Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z, it's kind of like taking steps backward. On the other hand, it was different and fresh and really did strike this weird nostalgia chord with me (especially Vegeta's face -- I know it's random lol).

I guess my favorites look of Dragon Ball is forgotten to time lol I really like the look like when Goku turns to Freeza as a Super Saiyan for the first time or when Trunks is talking up Cell after going past Super Saiyan. It's hard to explain. Their faces are a bit wide.

Extra lines and shading don't mean an evolution, though, so less lines and shading do not mean a devolution. Because Dragon Ball was more of a limited animation work that pushed increasingly detailed art--especially once Yamamuro took over in 1993--over animation it doesn't mean that it was by definition a sort of 'evolution'. Heck, the Yuu Yuu Hakusho cartoon was made during the same era and featured the character designs becoming more streamlined over the course of the series as Wakabayashi Atsushi and the others began trying to one-up one another in making the animation move interestingly.

I'd be up for a OVA supervised by Takahashi Yuuya so long as it had a decently long production schedule but I'm also highly skeptical because his section of Movie #20 was incredible stiff. I'd trust him with an episode similar to the directing of Shin Seiki Evangelion but I would be very skeptical of a full-on battle scene.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Yuya Takahashi would be better but Shintani is cool too, even though some characters may look younger than they should be.
We need a talented counterpart like that for the writing department. Current Toriyama and Toyotaro aren't good enough.

Toriyama's fine his issue is letting Toei and Toyotaro do what they want. I mean Toriyama had solid reasoning for not allowing Vegetto in the Trunks arc but because Mr. Fanboy wanted Vegetto Toriyama somehow allowed it. Toriyama's SS Broly was a subtle homage to the old Broly done perfect but then Shintani felt nostalgic and so we got the green monstrosity.

Toriyama really needs to put his foot down more. I know during BoG press stuff he said he doesn't care if people change his work but man he's the creator of Dragon Ball he needs to change his attitude.

[Vijay]

Yuya Takahashi would be better but Shintani is cool too, even though some characters may look younger than they should be.
We need a talented counterpart like that for the writing department. Current Toriyama and Toyotaro aren't good enough.

Toriyama's fine his issue is letting Toei and Toyotaro do what they want. I mean Toriyama had solid reasoning for not allowing Vegetto in the Trunks arc but because Mr. Fanboy wanted Vegetto Toriyama somehow allowed it. Toriyama's SS Broly was a subtle homage to the old Broly done perfect but then Shintani felt nostalgic and so we got the green monstrosity.

Toriyama really needs to put his foot down more. I know during BoG press stuff he said he doesn't care if people change his work but man he's the creator of Dragon Ball he needs to change his attitude.

What exactly is your problem with DBS Broly? Are you pro-Shintani or not?

[Cold Skin]

^ He's not talking about Shintani's way to draw itself, but the fact that when he adapted Toriyama's designs for his character sheets, he took the liberty to add the green-haired muscular form of Broly, which is reminiscent of the old DBZ Broly. Shintani wanted this nostalgic appearance to show up in the movie. This form that was added beyond Toriyama's original designs is what Baggie_Saiyan calls the "green monstruosity", as he would have prefered that it stuck with the regular Super Saiyan form that was setting itself apart from DBZ Broly and being more of a subtle homage while drastically reimagining the character's look, far from his well-known "big muscles and green hair" appearance.

Toriyama's original designs and intent stopped at Broly having his "regular Super Saiyan with the armor" appearance that faces Golden Freeza and Gogeta for a small part of the final battle. This is how Toriyama imagined him at the maximum of his potential/evolution in the movie.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm fine either way. The Super Saiyan form would have been more than enough and more of a departure/remake, I would have liked it if it stopped there. But the new "Full Power" version is an update of the original's iconic form thanks to Toriyama's new take on (what's left of) his clothes, so I like it too. So I'm just as happy either way.

[LoganForkHands73]

The trouble with "Legendary Super Saiyan Green" or whatever is that I didn't see it adding anything meaningful narratively. I don't have a huge problem with it either but it's just thrown in there for empty fanservice (in both senses of the word... cripes, Broly's packing like Willem Dafoe) -- transforming further beyond Super Saiyan didn't improve Broly's chances against Gogeta at all and nobody even acknowledges it. I think the design doesn't suit New Broly very well and it just makes me think of him as Old Broly with green hair dye.

[WittyUsername]

Broly transforming into his roided out form supposedly made him strong enough to force Gogeta to go Super Saiyan Blue, but there’s no reason they couldn’t have simply had Gogeta use Super Saiyan Blue from the very beginning of the fight.

Anyway, Shintani’s style was certainly a breath of fresh air after the plastic look that modern Dragon Ball has become so accustomed to, but I don’t know if I’d say that Broly is my favorite looking DB movie. I think I might still have a preference for some of the pre-BoG DBZ movies that Yamamuro did. Still, given Yamamuro’s current style, I’d rather they stick with Shintani’s style moving forward.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, the transformations are simply there for the staff to animate what they like or whatever. The problem with the film is that Broli is depicted as his power exponentially growing, without him having control over it. This leads to needing to effectively depict how Gokuu and Vegeta raise their battle power to match Broli, hence the transformations. This isn't quite as bad as the Freeza fight--where Freeza could assume his full power at a moment's notice--but still messes up the flow of the battle. This is why I argue that Gokuu and Vegeta should only have one transformation at a time (Blue) and that transformation should only be used once they've studied their foe so that if they know how to avoid being taken off guard and their transformation wasted. The transformation needs a drawback, just as we saw in the Champa arc.