How to properly watch GT ?

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How to properly watch GT ?

Post by GoodboiRaditz » Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 pm

I've been a fan for years but i never watched GT fully , i am rewatching it now in Japanese , i'm currently in episode 9 and to put it nicely , it's been a torture to watch , it's like this first episodes were for kids below 10 not the same edgy stuff from Z or even OG series , anyway , if someone can tell me what to skip and where the good stuff is , i'll be grateful .

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:13 pm

Asking if there's an easy way to watch GT is like asking if there's an easy way to gouge your eyes out. Unfortunately, despite "improving" starting with the 16th episode, it's not much better. If the first 15 episodes are a 2/10, the rest of the show is close to a 4/10. I've tried multiple times to watch it in different ways (cut episodes here, fast forward scenes there), and the end result is the same, it's still a terrible show. The issue isn't it being for kids (the original was) as much as the writers just no knowing how to write good stories. There are interviews with the producers about how it came to be, and you can tell they had no idea what they were doing. Look on the bright side, you've only got 55 episodes left, which is around 18 hours of GT "greatness". The best advice I can give you is to drop it and find another anime to watch, as there are countless shows you'll get more out of than watching something that shouldn't have been made in the first place.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by GoodboiRaditz » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:28 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:13 pm
Asking if there's an easy way to watch GT is like asking if there's an easy way to gouge your eyes out. Unfortunately, despite "improving" starting with the 16th episode, it's not much better. If the first 15 episodes are a 2/10, the rest of the show is close to a 4/10. I've tried multiple times to watch it in different ways (cut episodes here, fast forward scenes there), and the end result is the same, it's still a terrible show. The issue isn't it being for kids (the original was) as much as the writers just no knowing how to write good stories. There are interviews with the producers about how it came to be, and you can tell they had no idea what they were doing. Look on the bright side, you've only got 55 episodes left, which is around 18 hours of GT "greatness". The best advice I can give you is to drop it and find another anime to watch, as there are countless shows you'll get more out of than watching something that shouldn't have been made in the first place.
It's just so bad , it really made me realize how good Z and the original series were ,i found myself skipping most of the episode , that parapara or whatever episode nearly made me my eyes bleed ,what on earth were the creators of this series thinking , no wonder why Akira distanced himself from GT , how can you go from end of Z to this ? it takes a great deal of uncreativity to fail after that .

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:39 pm

GoodboiRaditz wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:28 pm
That parapara or whatever episode nearly made me my eyes bleed ,what on earth were the creators of this series thinking ?
I can always find ways to describe things, but that was the first time something left me completely speechless. I knew I hated it, but it was so bad I couldn't find the words to describe it. I honestly can't believe that episode got green lit. How on earth did no one say "hey everyone, this is terrible, really really terrible". Never mind it being a bad DB episode, it was a bad anime episode period.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:03 pm

If you can't make your way through it, just don't watch. If you have reasonable assurance it will get better then keep going. It took me a while to get through the first season of Fleabag and the only reason I made it through the first season was the assurance it would get better and because it wasn't a long show. I can't say the same for Star Trek: TNG. I've been told season 1 is rough but it gets great from season 2 onward. I've never been a big Trek fan so I'm not about to spend however many hours slogging through season 1 on the off chance it will get better when I find Trek boring.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 pm

The only proper way to watch any anime is to start at episode 1 and watch until last episode, unless there are some completely filler episodes which GT lacks due to its nature, as it has no manga and is completely seperate product. For GT you also have a great TV special episode, with some people saying it's better than most of show episodes, but TV specials in DB were always great (i mean Bardock and Trunks). You should watch this episode either after last episode or at any point after Baby saga (which is when it aired in Japan, after episode 40).

But if you're going to force yourself to watch something and keep skipping episodes, then don't watch it. Simple as that. Digimon Tamers is considered the best series by most of community and i stopped watching it after like 8 episodes because it was awful and painful to watch for me, while Digimon Frontier is very often considered the worst and i think it was pretty good. If you want more Z-like episodes, then you have to keep watching until episode 16 and it goes almost completely Z-like after Baby's reveal, around episodes 22/23. But either watch all episodes or do not watch it at all. Watching only certain parts of story is pointless.

I still recommend you to keep watching it since Baby saga has one of the best villains in franchise and Shadow Dragons arc is the perfect ending for franchise that Toriyama will never give to you. And of course SSJ4.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Vijay » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:10 pm

GoodboiRaditz wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:56 pm
I've been a fan for years but i never watched GT fully , i am rewatching it now in Japanese , i'm currently in episode 9 and to put it nicely , it's been a torture to watch , it's like this first episodes were for kids below 10 not the same edgy stuff from Z or even OG series , anyway , if someone can tell me what to skip and where the good stuff is , i'll be grateful .
ROFL 🤣 that "torture" part got me laughing 😂

Wanna know how to watch GT properly? Take my suggestion, don't. It's not worth it. You said it urself, it's not even for kids, not as edgy as Z or DB

But still, you may watch from Ep 16 onwards. It gets better from Ep 18 as it'll lead to major story Arc. Arguably GT's pinnacle. Don't wish to spoil it for ya.

I personally dislike final Arc/season. It's not entertaining or even epic. It's just...been there, done that. So that's my rant

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:14 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 pm
The last 10 minutes of the Shadow Dragons arc is the perfect ending for franchise that Toriyama will never give to you.
The problem with the shadow dragons ending is that despite being good, it takes nearly 16 hours of :yawn: :sick: :| to get to.

When it comes to what Toriyama has been giving us, it may not always be good, but at least it's watchable.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:24 pm

I've been enjoying GT from what I've watched of it. It isn't the best but there are some great episodes like on the desert planet, and Baby is a terrifying villain concept. If you're really tired of how ugly Super's modern art style can get, GT's a nice way to get "brand new" content from Dragon Ball's golden age in the 80s and 90s when things were traditionally animated, Yamamuro knew what anatomy was and the VOs were in their prime.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:28 pm

GT is not an "edgy" show. It's a sentimental, fun epilogue to the original Dragon Ball storyline that tries a lot of new, interesting ideas.

It doesn't gel with a lot of peoples' tastes, and it's not a patch on the original run. And it doesn't help that episode 2, and pretty much all of episodes 7-14, are the Toei staff mostly trying their damndest to feel like early Dragon Ball, and kinda failing miserably.

But, I'll put it like this -- if you're hating watching it... Just don't watch it.
Spend your time watching things you like watching, not things you hate watching. Maybe you just don't like GT... Congratulations, there are a lot of people who don't like GT. Us GT fans never hear the end of it, that's how many of you there are. :lol:
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:30 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:24 pm
Yamamuro knew what anatomy was.
I know Yamamuro's designs aren't perfect, but he still has a great understanding of anatomy even today, with these following examples proving it:

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by GoodboiRaditz » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:34 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:28 pm
GT is not an "edgy" show. It's a sentimental, fun epilogue to the original Dragon Ball storyline that tries a lot of new, interesting ideas.

It doesn't gel with a lot of peoples' tastes, and it's not a patch on the original run. And it doesn't help that episode 2, and pretty much all of episodes 7-14, are the Toei staff mostly trying their damndest to feel like early Dragon Ball, and kinda failing miserably.

But, I'll put it like this -- if you're hating watching it... Just don't watch it.
Spend your time watching things you like watching, not things you hate watching. Maybe you just don't like GT... Congratulations, there are a lot of people who don't like GT. Us GT fans never hear the end of it, that's how many of you there are. :lol:
You see the thing about me is that i love being in the minorities :lol: thats why i am trying to give GT a chance to change my mind :D but to be honest its hard , but on a positive note i am watching episode 16 and it's much better than the BAD stuff from earlier .

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Vijay » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:35 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:24 pm
I've been enjoying GT from what I've watched of it. It isn't the best but there are some great episodes like on the desert planet, and Baby is a terrifying villain concept. If you're really tired of how ugly Super's modern art style can get, GT's a nice way to get "brand new" content from Dragon Ball's golden age in the 80s and 90s when things were traditionally animated, Yamamuro knew what anatomy was and the VOs were in their prime.
Not to start anything. But it's always sumthin that bothered me. DBZ films M10-13 had updated, modernized look with even cgi at times. Why not GT? I know it's series with low budget, whatnot. But I'm speaking of both quality & artwork.

When you'd mentioned Super's ugly design, GT is not an exception. Doltacki, Luud, mutchimotchi, para2 Bros, Machine mutants, 90% of Shadow Dragons, wut...but hey, Yammamuro episodes are always a gem.

GT's design (Nakatsuru iirc) felt a lot more rigid, clunky, plus that tan on Goku...gosh, what were they thinking...

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:38 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 pm
The only proper way to watch any anime is to start at episode 1 and watch until last episode, unless there are some completely filler episodes which GT lacks due to its nature, as it has no manga and is completely seperate product. For GT you also have a great TV special episode, with some people saying it's better than most of show episodes, but TV specials in DB were always great (i mean Bardock and Trunks). You should watch this episode either after last episode or at any point after Baby saga (which is when it aired in Japan, after episode 40).

But if you're going to force yourself to watch something and keep skipping episodes, then don't watch it. Simple as that. Digimon Tamers is considered the best series by most of community and i stopped watching it after like 8 episodes because it was awful and painful to watch for me, while Digimon Frontier is very often considered the worst and i think it was pretty good. If you want more Z-like episodes, then you have to keep watching until episode 16 and it goes almost completely Z-like after Baby's reveal, around episodes 22/23. But either watch all episodes or do not watch it at all. Watching only certain parts of story is pointless.

I still recommend you to keep watching it since Baby saga has one of the best villains in franchise and Shadow Dragons arc is the perfect ending for franchise that Toriyama will never give to you. And of course SSJ4.
A filler episode doesn't require source material to deviate from qualify as filler. Something can be filler if it exists to fill time. Lots of serialized shows pull the taffy in order to fulfill their contractually obligated episode order.

In GT, the episode where Pan gets lost in the desert would qualify as filler.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:42 pm

It’s true that the episodes prior to Gill’s planet are very bad from a narrative perspective, but they have more interesting art direction and settings than the Baby arc and what follows, which are just rehashes of Cell and Buu from DBZ.

If you are expecting to be bored, you at least will find different reasons to be bored. The first ~25 episodes are at least different from DBZ, so I actually prefer them to the rest.
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:38 pm
In GT, the episode where Pan gets lost in the desert would qualify as filler.
If that’s filler, it’s good filler. (best episode in GT)

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:51 pm

Pop in the home video, set it to Japanese, hit play and make sure you've got your blue, pink and white striped thigh-high socks on.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:53 pm

Filler isn't inherently good or bad. It's got this weird pejorative because apparently the only the things that are "on plot" are good. It's like people don't remember how the best X-Files episodes were almost always not the mythology episodes.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by KBABZ » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:19 pm

Vijay wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:35 pm
When you'd mentioned Super's ugly design, GT is not an exception. Doltacki, Luud, mutchimotchi, para2 Bros, Machine mutants, 90% of Shadow Dragons, wut...but hey, Yammamuro episodes are always a gem.

GT's design (Nakatsuru iirc) felt a lot more rigid, clunky, plus that tan on Goku...gosh, what were they thinking...
For me there's a difference between a design and an art style. Here's a collection of what is basically the same character design done by different artists over the years (with a focus on Yamamuro's design evolution):

Image

Yamamuro's style focuses on rather "chunky" details with shading and highlights, and while that did set him apart in Z, it's often a detriment in the modern anime industry where speed is essential in order to deliver the work. His style also got more ridig over time: note how Goku's hair spikes on the left become shaped more like Buster Swords by 2008. This is why Shintani's art style works so well: it's much simpler and "flatter", allowing the animators to spend more time making the animation look incredible, and that shows in how expressive the animation in Broly is. Maeda's more rounded look meanwhile paired VERY nicely with Toriyama's art style until the Android arc, where Toriyama solidified the more angular look DBZ is famous for.

(also side-bar but I hate how ridiculously open Goku's orange shirt has become, I much prefer the look from the Maeda example)

The art style factor pivots with the "look" that digital animation has, which is ultimately what I was talking about. I know it's all "'fake", but bad digital work is PAINFULLY more obvious than when traditional techniques are bad. Digital animation is often "flat" in appearance and frequently uses CG animation that contrasts incredibly poorly. Glow effects too look really uninteresting compared to the rotoscoped glows of yesteryear, and Dragon Ball depends on that effect. I personally can't stand all this stuff, so being able to watch new content via GT and the movies has been a fantastic way to get more classic, golden-age Dragon Ball animation rather than having to put with with Super.
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:38 pm
In GT, the episode where Pan gets lost in the desert would qualify as filler.
I disagree actually, for me that's a "bottle" episode where by the end Pan comes to terms with the mission she forced herself into and gains a new respect for Giru. But I do agree with your overall point: I'd argue that outside of picking up Giru at the end and Goku discovering Instant Transmission doesn't work anymore, the Imecka duo of episodes don't contribute anything to the overall story nor develops the characters.
Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:42 pm
It’s true that the episodes prior to Gill’s planet are very bad from a narrative perspective, but they have more interesting art direction and settings than the Baby arc and what follows, which are just rehashes of Cell and Buu from DBZ.
Disagree! Baby may be pink with a funny thing on his head and a name starting with the letter B like Buu, but he's different because he's actually able to directly turn characters to agree with his viewpoints and be completely evil, something Cell nor Buu ever did. It causes some great drama, and his sheer, absurd hypocrisy regarding Tuffles and Saiyans is unique to him as a villain (and also kinda disturbing thanks to political events in the past week).
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:53 pm
Filler isn't inherently good or bad. It's got this weird pejorative because apparently the only the things that are "on plot" are good. It's like people don't remember how the best X-Files episodes were almost always not the mythology episodes.
I find a lot of filler, in Dragon Ball at least, to contrast quite strongly with the main work, especially from a design perspective. Many locations exclusive to filler, like the kingdom in Demon Land, the ice world with the Ultra Divine Water, and so-on look nothing like what Toriyama would actually put into his world. The story also tends to be frivolous and inconsequential as well, because by its very nature it has to return to the source material.

That said it does have some great moments: I love how Krillin's backstory at Orin temple is actually shown to explain why he's such an ass early on and make him a more sympathetic character. Plus it's early enough that it doesn't give away that he'll be facing those guys again at the Tournament.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:32 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:19 pm
Vijay wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:35 pm
When you'd mentioned Super's ugly design, GT is not an exception. Doltacki, Luud, mutchimotchi, para2 Bros, Machine mutants, 90% of Shadow Dragons, wut...but hey, Yammamuro episodes are always a gem.

GT's design (Nakatsuru iirc) felt a lot more rigid, clunky, plus that tan on Goku...gosh, what were they thinking...
For me there's a difference between a design and an art style. Here's a collection of what is basically the same character design done by different artists over the years (with a focus on Yamamuro's design evolution):

Image

Yamamuro's style focuses on rather "chunky" details with shading and highlights, and while that did set him apart in Z, it's often a detriment in the modern anime industry where speed is essential in order to deliver the work. His style also got more ridig over time: note how Goku's hair spikes on the left become shaped more like Buster Swords by 2008. This is why Shintani's art style works so well: it's much simpler and "flatter", allowing the animators to spend more time making the animation look incredible, and that shows in how expressive the animation in Broly is. Maeda's more rounded look meanwhile paired VERY nicely with Toriyama's art style until the Android arc, where Toriyama solidified the more angular look DBZ is famous for.

(also side-bar but I hate how ridiculously open Goku's orange shirt has become, I much prefer the look from the Maeda example)

The art style factor pivots with the "look" that digital animation has, which is ultimately what I was talking about. I know it's all "'fake", but bad digital work is PAINFULLY more obvious than when traditional techniques are bad. Digital animation is often "flat" in appearance and frequently uses CG animation that contrasts incredibly poorly. Glow effects too look really uninteresting compared to the rotoscoped glows of yesteryear, and Dragon Ball depends on that effect. I personally can't stand all this stuff, so being able to watch new content via GT and the movies has been a fantastic way to get more classic, golden-age Dragon Ball animation rather than having to put with with Super.
The work is bad because it's bad, not because it's digital. Bad physical coloring is just as god awful looking. Look at any American series from the 1970s-1990s, barring maybe the first 65 episodes of the 1992 Batman series. Yamamuro's designs on their own are bad but the coloring and post-processing was bad because of Toei Animation's weird coloring and post-processing that focuses on saturated colors and poor digital inking of the light work. Their modern work is way better and actually closer to where other series were in 2008-2012, when the look of Super was first designed.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by sunsetshimmer » Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:35 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:14 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 pm
The last 10 minutes of the Shadow Dragons arc is the perfect ending for franchise that Toriyama will never give to you.
The problem with the shadow dragons ending is that despite being good, it takes nearly 16 hours of :yawn: :sick: :| to get to.

When it comes to what Toriyama has been giving us, it may not always be good, but at least it's watchable.
Yeah let's ignore entire great concept behind this arc like it meant nothing for this ending and how every dragon was somewhat related to wish that gave it life. And no other villain than Omega (except for Frieza) ever felt like it could be final villain of story, especially final villains of Z and DBS (talking about Jiren, not Moro but it doesn't really make a big difference). DBZ ending was dumb and out of butt. The only thing that saves it a bit is a fact that Uub came from Goku's wish and isn't just some random kid and believe me, Toriyama would be able to make it this way.

And what is "watchable" for you? If something isn't good but is watchable then what? Because there were things made by Toriyama that were painful to watch as well and that doesn't even include Super.
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