How to properly watch GT ?

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by blacksymbiote » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:02 am

It wasn't the rap song that drew us to GT I can assure you. But it did seem like it might be edgy because here in the US we first saw the characters beaten down after a battle since the airing skipped those first 15 episodes. I think there's something about seeing these shows in different order and the way they were edited that affected how they were received. DB is a prequel rather than the beginning like in its home country which affected its popularity I feel and after having to go backward watching that and then the new unedited DBZ, GT felt like finally we were moving forward.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:47 am

blacksymbiote wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:02 am
I think there's something about seeing these shows in different order and the way they were edited that affected how they were received.
I always think it's best to watch a show from the start and in its entirety, but there are exceptions like GT. The problem with GT is that by the time it gets good (good in GT standards), I think most people will have already dropped it had they included those 15 episodes. Personally, I think they could've gotten away with just skipping 10 episodes (6-15) as that's where things really go downhill.

In terms of Funimation treating DB as a prequel, it was a terrible idea, as the more I watch Z, the more convinced I become that it's a terrible place to start a story.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:21 am

The Luud arc and the Baby arc suffer from the same issues. I would argue the Luud arc has a greater payoff than Baby's which was weak sauce. Baby's big death is to run away into a spaceship and get blasted into the sun?
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:50 am

Baby's death with being blasted into the sun a la Coola in DBZ movie 5 was so cheap and underwhelming as a conclusion, it would have been more awesome if he didn't take off in the ship and Goku in Super Saiyan 4 form finally wiped the floor with him in one swift final stroke seeing as he was no longer able to rely on the power of possessed Vegeta as a golden Oozaru. That really would have been better if Baby had died by Goku's hands personally, rather than a Kamehameha into space just barely outside of new Planet Tsufuru's orbit.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 13, 2020 11:22 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:50 am
Baby's death with being blasted into the sun a la Coola in DBZ movie 5 was so cheap and underwhelming as a conclusion, it would have been more awesome if he didn't take off in the ship and Goku in Super Saiyan 4 form finally wiped the floor with him in one swift final stroke seeing as he was no longer able to rely on the power of possessed Vegeta as a golden Oozaru. That really would have been better if Baby had died by Goku's hands personally, rather than a Kamehameha into space just barely outside of new Planet Tsufuru's orbit.
In Coola's case the irony of his act of mercy leading to his death made it fitting. Baby's death feels anticlimactic. It's like they just threw a bunch of ideas against a wall and this one stuck.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:06 pm

•Consolidate in Texas to avoid Unions.
•Edit the series to reach the lowest common denominator to maximize profits.
•Chop out 'boring' parts (the first fifteen episodes of Dragon Ball GT) to get to the more 'commercially viable' parts with 'action' (a marketing buzz world to pacify conservative parents).
•Remove original music score to play music that will supposedly resonate better with The Kids. Conveniently no longer have to pay music royalties to the very popular Japanese composer who created said removed music.
•Use a composer based in a decidedly non-union state to avoid paying high costs.
•Hire non-actors to act so as to avoid paying Union rates or dealing with actors who know what the fuck they're doing so The Company can abuse them easier.

Boy, I sure love capitalism.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:09 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:06 pm
•Consolidate in Texas to avoid Unions.
•Edit the series to reach the lowest common denominator to maximize profits.
•Chop out 'boring' parts (the first fifteen episodes of Dragon Ball GT) to get to the more 'commercially viable' parts with 'action' (a marketing buzz world to pacify conservative parents).
•Remove original music score to play music that will supposedly resonate better with The Kids. Conveniently no longer have to pay music royalties to the very popular Japanese composer who created said removed music.
•Use a composer based in a decidedly non-union state to avoid paying high costs.
•Hire non-actors to act so as to avoid paying Union rates or dealing with actors who know what the fuck they're doing so The Company can abuse them easier.

Boy, I sure love capitalism.
What does that have to do with this subject?

You think "action" is a marketing buzzword?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:30 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:06 pm
•Consolidate in Texas to avoid Unions.
•Edit the series to reach the lowest common denominator to maximize profits.
•Chop out 'boring' parts (the first fifteen episodes of Dragon Ball GT) to get to the more 'commercially viable' parts with 'action' (a marketing buzz world to pacify conservative parents).
•Remove original music score to play music that will supposedly resonate better with The Kids. Conveniently no longer have to pay music royalties to the very popular Japanese composer who created said removed music.
•Use a composer based in a decidedly non-union state to avoid paying high costs.
•Hire non-actors to act so as to avoid paying Union rates or dealing with actors who know what the fuck they're doing so The Company can abuse them easier.

Boy, I sure love capitalism.
Yes, it's indeed true FUNi did all that back in the late '90s/early 2000's by going in house for everything starting with DBZ Season 3 rather than continuing to remain partnered with other companies like Saban and Pioneer and outsourcing voice work to Canada as they previously had with the Ocean cast. That said, i don't see what exactly this above post has in relation to the topic at hand.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:35 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:30 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:06 pm
•Consolidate in Texas to avoid Unions.
•Edit the series to reach the lowest common denominator to maximize profits.
•Chop out 'boring' parts (the first fifteen episodes of Dragon Ball GT) to get to the more 'commercially viable' parts with 'action' (a marketing buzz world to pacify conservative parents).
•Remove original music score to play music that will supposedly resonate better with The Kids. Conveniently no longer have to pay music royalties to the very popular Japanese composer who created said removed music.
•Use a composer based in a decidedly non-union state to avoid paying high costs.
•Hire non-actors to act so as to avoid paying Union rates or dealing with actors who know what the fuck they're doing so The Company can abuse them easier.

Boy, I sure love capitalism.
Yes, it's indeed true FUNi did all that back in the late '90s/early 2000's by going in house for everything starting with DBZ Season 3 rather than continuing to remain partnered with other companies like Saban and Pioneer and outsourcing voice work to Canada as they previously had with the Ocean cast. That said, i don't see what exactly this above post has in relation to the topic at hand.
They're still dodging fair representation for their labor and giving them zero democratic say in how The Company is run.

Anyway, I completely forgot what post inspired this post. I believe it was in reference to manner in which the series was handled when first coming over to the US and skipping those fifteen episodes as well as the mentality behind the entire ordeal.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:40 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:35 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:30 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:06 pm
•Consolidate in Texas to avoid Unions.
•Edit the series to reach the lowest common denominator to maximize profits.
•Chop out 'boring' parts (the first fifteen episodes of Dragon Ball GT) to get to the more 'commercially viable' parts with 'action' (a marketing buzz world to pacify conservative parents).
•Remove original music score to play music that will supposedly resonate better with The Kids. Conveniently no longer have to pay music royalties to the very popular Japanese composer who created said removed music.
•Use a composer based in a decidedly non-union state to avoid paying high costs.
•Hire non-actors to act so as to avoid paying Union rates or dealing with actors who know what the fuck they're doing so The Company can abuse them easier.

Boy, I sure love capitalism.
Yes, it's indeed true FUNi did all that back in the late '90s/early 2000's by going in house for everything starting with DBZ Season 3 rather than continuing to remain partnered with other companies like Saban and Pioneer and outsourcing voice work to Canada as they previously had with the Ocean cast. That said, i don't see what exactly this above post has in relation to the topic at hand.
They're still dodging fair representation for their labor and giving them zero democratic say in how The Company is run.

Anyway, I completely forgot what post inspired this post. I believe it was in reference to manner in which the series was handled when first coming over to the US and skipping those fifteen episodes as well as the mentality behind the entire ordeal.
Indeed, that appears to be an ongoing issue in the industry which there hasn't been much of a conversation over or still not even now. And yes, their initial skipping over of the entire first arc of the show until going back and later releasing them as the so called Lost Episodes was an attempt to "get to the action" but also to overcome the rather bad reputation GT had (particularly in it's country of origin) by the time FUNi licensed it.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm

The mentality was to get people to watch a show that has a poor reputation. They didn't want people to grow bored before it got to the parts people enjoy. Nothing that has anything to do with your condemnation for the same system that gave us DB to begin with.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:47 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm
The mentality was to get people to watch a show that has a poor reputation. They didn't want people to grow bored before it got to the parts people enjoy. Nothing that has anything to do with your condemnation for the same system that gave us DB to begin with.
Yes, because they surely knew that GT had not done so well during it's original broadcast run in Japan several years earlier (Just look at the show's ratings over the course of 1996 and 1997, it was up and down but mostly the latter all the way to the end.) so combined with the advertising this was an attempt on FUNi's part to change that. And it worked, because quite a few fans here regard the show to a better degree than in it's home country and others.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:54 pm

My first exposure to GT was the Blue Water dub that aired in the UK, so I actually started at episode 1. I remember initially really not liking it due to how drastically different it felt to Z (which had only finished airing 3 days prior). But I stuck with it and gradually grew to like it more, particularly around the Baby saga.

It's worth mentioning that OG DB didn't air here until after GT had ended, so I really wasn't used to the direction those early episodes took, having only seen Z at that point.

It's very easy to understand why Funi felt the need to skip ahead, as those episodes did cause a knee jerk reaction when I saw them for the first time. When I watch them now I know exactly what I'm getting beforehand, so find them easier to get through.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:48 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm
The mentality was to get people to watch a show that has a poor reputation. They didn't want people to grow bored before it got to the parts people enjoy.
And what was the purpose of that mentality? To drive sales and increase profits. They weren't just doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm
Nothing that has anything to do with your condemnation for the same system that gave us DB to begin with.
Is your argument really that because we got DB out of it that it somehow can't be condemned?

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:10 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:48 pm
ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm
The mentality was to get people to watch a show that has a poor reputation. They didn't want people to grow bored before it got to the parts people enjoy.
And what was the purpose of that mentality? To drive sales and increase profits. They weren't just doing it out of the kindness of their hearts.

ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm
Nothing that has anything to do with your condemnation for the same system that gave us DB to begin with.
Is your argument really that because we got DB out of it that it somehow can't be condemned?
It's a mutually beneficial relationship. Audience gets something they want and the company gets what they want. What's your point? Profits are good. It's a sign of value creation. I don't fault a company for trying to appeal what they perceive their customers want.

No but I'm tired of Julie's constant condemnation of "capitalism" apropos of nothing at the drop of a hat. Capitalism isn't the reason FUNi cut corners and started the series 1/4th of the way in. It has NOTHING to do with this subject and even if I thought this was an example of Capitalism, the subject is FAR more nuanced than "Capitalism bad!" If you are going to condemn something, first understand the subject
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:16 pm

I debated writing this post because goddamn, has the week been stressful enough.
ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:45 pm
The mentality was to get people to watch a show that has a poor reputation. They didn't want people to grow bored before it got to the parts people enjoy. Nothing that has anything to do with your condemnation for the same system that gave us DB to begin with.
ABED, let me let you in on two little secrets:
  1. You can criticize capitalism while still existing under it.
  2. You don't need to defend people and corporations with more wealth and power than you. You should actively be telling them to fuck off, in fact. Jumping to their aide in a thread twenty years after the fact to carry their oh-so-heavy balls isn't going to help anyone.
  3. Capitalism hates me, therefore I will not only hate it, I will actively work towards its complete and utter obliteration. Don't ever thing that I will not call out bullshit if I feel so inclined (which I happened to at this moment).
  4. Bonus Round: Donate to Black trans women.
Feel free to add me to your ignore list if you don't like what I have to say. You've been on mine forever and I'm only replying to this post because someone else replied to it.
ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:10 pm
It's a mutually beneficial relationship. Audience gets something they want and the company gets what they want. What's your point? Profits are good. It's a sign of value creation. I don't fault a company for trying to appeal what they perceive their customers want.

No but I'm tired of Julie's constant condemnation of "capitalism" apropos of nothing at the drop of a hat. Capitalism isn't the reason FUNi cut corners and started the series 1/4th of the way in. It has NOTHING to do with this subject and even if I thought this was an example of Capitalism, the subject is FAR more nuanced than "Capitalism bad!" If you are going to condemn something, first understand the subject
I'm right ur wrong lol

I mean, goodness, changing the tone and marketing of a series specifically to bolster profits is literally Capitalism 101. It's an evil system where workers sell their valuable labor for less than its worth and Gen Fukunaga gets to become a millionaire. Everything FUNimation has done or will ever do is a calculated move to win the Rat Race at the expense of other people (the workers) and other thing (Dragon Ball GT).
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:23 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:50 am
Baby's death with being blasted into the sun a la Coola in DBZ movie 5 was so cheap and underwhelming as a conclusion, it would have been more awesome if he didn't take off in the ship and Goku in Super Saiyan 4 form finally wiped the floor with him in one swift final stroke seeing as he was no longer able to rely on the power of possessed Vegeta as a golden Oozaru. That really would have been better if Baby had died by Goku's hands personally, rather than a Kamehameha into space just barely outside of new Planet Tsufuru's orbit.
The series, ever since Vegeta's defeat, seems to dislike physical defeats like this. Every villain is defeated by being disintegrated in a ki wave, usually with a funny face, to make sure they don't get back up. The only "final boss" I can recall being defeated that way before then was Taopaipai getting blown up by his own grenade.
I guess it's because beating someone to death doesn't have that same impact as disintegrating them (and keeps cremation costs high).
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:24 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:16 pm
  1. You can criticize capitalism while still existing under it.
  2. You don't need to defend people and corporations with more wealth and power than you. You should actively be telling them to fuck off, in fact. Jumping to their aide in a thread twenty years after the fact to carry their oh-so-heavy balls isn't going to help anyone.
  3. Capitalism hates me, therefore I will not only hate it, I will actively work towards its complete and utter obliteration. Don't ever thing that I will not call out bullshit if I feel so inclined (which I happened to at this moment).
  4. Bonus Round: Donate to Black trans women.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:29 pm

1. We don't live in a Capitalist system, not remotely close to it.
2. I will defend a company regardless of how much money they if they didn't do something wrong. It's not about how much money they have, it's about ethics which has nothing to do with one's bankroll
3. You don't know what Capitalism is. We live in a mixed economy and Capitalism is the ONLY socioeconomic system based on the recognition of one's unalienable right to live.
4. You aren't calling out bullshit. You are going off topic to spout anticapitalist, Marxist drivel and platitudes that you don't even stop to truly understand.

It's an evil system where workers sell their valuable labor for less than its worth and Gen Fukunaga gets to become a millionaire. Everything FUNimation has done or will ever do is a calculated move to win the Rat Race at the expense of other people (the workers) and other thing (Dragon Ball GT).
They didn't sell their labor for less than it's worth, and the worker benefits because they value the paycheck more than their time and effort. And labor is not the determinant of value. Again, pure Marxist nonsense which I'm pretty sure he got from Smith's misunderstanding of economic value. Economics is not a zero sum game. If we're going to condemn FUNi, fans have as much a part in this as the company. We could've not watched the dub and yet we all did despite it being a shoddy product.
Last edited by ABED on Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Yuli Ban » Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:31 pm

Matches Malone wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 2:47 am
blacksymbiote wrote:
Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:02 am
I think there's something about seeing these shows in different order and the way they were edited that affected how they were received.
I always think it's best to watch a show from the start and in its entirety, but there are exceptions like GT. The problem with GT is that by the time it gets good (good in GT standards), I think most people will have already dropped it had they included those 15 episodes. Personally, I think they could've gotten away with just skipping 10 episodes (6-15) as that's where things really go downhill.

In terms of Funimation treating DB as a prequel, it was a terrible idea, as the more I watch Z, the more convinced I become that it's a terrible place to start a story.
1: Kinda telling to me, actually, that GT has been seen as being fatally crippled by its first 15 episodes. How did Super overcome that when its first 40 were arguably inferior?
2: Damn straight starting with Raditz is a poor decision! If we had to start halfway through the series, an infinitely better place would be the start of the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. But even then, that makes no sense. You don't pick up Prisoner of Azkaban on page 235 and read onwards from there and then treat every book and page before that as an "optional comedic prequel."
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