How to properly watch GT ?

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:03 pm

If you could get through the first 15 or so episodes, and still want to watch more, you might as well finish the rest of the show.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Goten_jr » Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:02 pm

Start with 1-6(I actually really Liked the Planet Imecka episodes)skip 7-14(the absolute worst Part of GT),Planet M2-Baby Arc is really good,and You can Skip Super 17,Shadow Dragon Saga is Mid but had the some Good Parts

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:13 pm

First thing is never skip an episode.

Otherwise, just grin and bear it. It's okay to watch a show you hate. Ultimately it's about your personal motivation for watching the series. If you want to watch it for completion's sake? Just keep chugging along. Whatever the goal is.

Just do it.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:29 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:53 pm
Filler isn't inherently good or bad. It's got this weird pejorative because apparently the only the things that are "on plot" are good. It's like people don't remember how the best X-Files episodes were almost always not the mythology episodes.
Hm, then I disagree with your definition of filler. Filler is removable content included to pad out a work. Garlic Jr. is removable; Snake Way is removable; driving episode. The Boss Rabbit chapter of the manga is filler; Dr. Slump was mostly filler, though for a gag manga that was the point.

The desert episode of GT performs a large number of literary functions. I agree filler can be good in spite of being filler, but the desert episode is good because it's not filler: a Pan almost dies, Giru saves Pan's life and now Pan likes him instead of hates him, they find a Dragon Ball, and Goku and Trunks finally accept Pan as an ally on their mission instead of trying to go back to earth immediately to drop her off, which they had been trying to do the moment she blasted off, but they kept getting side tracked.

Even Toei knew this wasn't filler because they put the animation A-team on it.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:30 pm

It's okay to watch a show you hate, but why do it? There's so much great stuff out there, why watch something you don't enjoy? Life moves too damn quickly to waste it on something you aren't enjoying.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:34 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:29 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:53 pm
Filler isn't inherently good or bad. It's got this weird pejorative because apparently the only the things that are "on plot" are good. It's like people don't remember how the best X-Files episodes were almost always not the mythology episodes.
Hm, then I disagree with your definition of filler. Filler is removable content included to pad out a work. Garlic Jr. is removable; Snake Way is removable; driving episode. The Boss Rabbit chapter of the manga is filler; Dr. Slump was mostly filler, though for a gag manga that was the point.

The desert episode of GT performs a large number of literary functions. I agree filler can be good in spite of being filler, but the desert episode is good because it's not filler: a Pan almost dies, Giru saves Pan's life and now Pan likes him instead of hates him, they find a Dragon Ball, and Goku and Trunks finally accept Pan as an ally on their mission instead of trying to go back to earth immediately to drop her off, which they had been trying to do the moment she blasted off, but they kept getting side tracked.

Even Toei knew this wasn't filler because they put the animation A-team on it.
It is filler. Nothing really comes of it. Their lives are constantly in danger, although not real danger. Does anyone think even if they did kill Pan, it would be due to water deprivation? They had already accepted Pan. It was several episodes in and they hadn't taken her back home. It was 15 episodes in. They weren't taking her back. Filler can be on plot and still be filler. I wish her relationship with Giru took a turn but she doesn't really treat him much better than she did before.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:41 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:34 pm
It is filler. Nothing really comes of it. Their lives are constantly in danger, although not real danger. Does anyone think even if they did kill Pan, it would be due to water deprivation? They had already accepted Pan. It was several episodes in and they hadn't taken her back home. It was 15 episodes in. They weren't taking her back. Filler can be on plot and still be filler.
You should watch the episode again. The whole time they were trying to get back to earth to switch out Pan for Goten. Dude they find a Dragon Ball.
KBABZ wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:19 pm
Disagree! Baby may be pink with a funny thing on his head and a name starting with the letter B like Buu, but he's different because he's actually able to directly turn characters to agree with his viewpoints and be completely evil, something Cell nor Buu ever did. It causes some great drama, and his sheer, absurd hypocrisy regarding Tuffles and Saiyans is unique to him as a villain
I suppose. I found domesticated Vegeta to be completely unbelievable and the Vegeta family "home-life" to be poor drama. Still don't buy that Vegeta is a husband lol. Evil Gohan/Goten/the world made everyone one-dimensional, which was a great shame because regular Goten was awesome. I found Baby to be boring and too long. Corrupted Bulma's "Goku, you aren't my friend" moment could have been much more powerful except we know she's possessed by the parasite. She has no reason to be evil besides she got infected.
Last edited by Zestanor on Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:53 pm

It's called Schmuck bait. She wasn't actually in danger of being replaced. It was one of those episodes that wants you to think the status quo is changing without actually changing. She was firmly part of the group and then in that filler episode Pan overhears something which upsets her, and that's it. The dynamic of the group doesn't fundamentally change. It gives the appearance of change.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:00 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:53 pm
It's called Schmuck bait. She wasn't actually in danger of being replaced. It was one of those episodes that wants you to think the status quo is changing without actually changing. She was firmly part of the group and then in that filler episode Pan overhears something which upsets her, and that's it. The dynamic of the group doesn't fundamentally change. It gives the appearance of change.
Well obviously she wasn't in danger of being replaced; that's not what I said. Even though they didn't beat anybody up, there were several character conflicts resolved or progressed here.

Dude weren't you just saying on that other thread that Pan and Giru's relationship was really nice? You just being contrary? And if you don't care about the character development, they find a Dragon Ball. By no metric is this filler.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:05 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:00 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 8:53 pm
It's called Schmuck bait. She wasn't actually in danger of being replaced. It was one of those episodes that wants you to think the status quo is changing without actually changing. She was firmly part of the group and then in that filler episode Pan overhears something which upsets her, and that's it. The dynamic of the group doesn't fundamentally change. It gives the appearance of change.
Well obviously she wasn't in danger of being replaced; that's not what I said. Even though they didn't beat anybody up, there were several character conflicts resolved or progressed here.

Dude weren't you just saying on that other thread that Pan and Giru's relationship was really nice? You just being contrary? And if you don't care about the character development, they find a Dragon Ball. By no metric is this filler.
They weren't resolved or progressed. Nothing fundamentally changed from the episode before it and the episode after it.

The relationship is nice in the same way that Bulma's relationship with Goku is nice. She often is embarassed by him, berates him, and is exasperated by him, but there's still affection there. Same with Giru and Pan. But it was the same from almost the beginning once Giru became a member of the team which was well before this episode. I do care about character development but there is no development here.

Okay, they find a DB, that I forgot, but the rest of the story is pure schmuck bait. The DB was a plot element, but the story was about her feeling useless and believing the team didn't value her.

What other character conflicts were there?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:20 pm

Pan hates Giru → Pan loves Giru
Without this the M2 arc is stupid.

Goku and Trunks viewed Pan as a nuisance to the mission at the start, and they would have turned the ship around immediately if she hadn't stolen the key. In this episode, they finally change their minds. At the end Trunks calls Pan 仲間 (comrade) which has the sense of "indispensable ally, of course" in contrast to their relationship previously, which was one of moral obligation to take care of a child.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:26 pm

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:35 pm
Yeah let's ignore entire great concept behind this arc like it meant nothing for this ending and how every dragon was somewhat related to wish that gave it life. And no other villain than Omega (except for Frieza) ever felt like it could be final villain of story, especially final villains of Z and DBS (talking about Jiren, not Moro but it doesn't really make a big difference).

And what is "watchable" for you? If something isn't good but is watchable then what?
I've always agreed that the concepts in GT were great, the execution however is the complete opposite.

I said it wasn't always good, but at least watchable. In terms of what's watchable, things that don't put me to sleep half way through or make me drop them altogether.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:27 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:20 pm
Pan hates Giru → Pan loves Giru
Without this the M2 arc is stupid.

Goku and Trunks viewed Pan as a nuisance to the mission at the start, and they would have turned the ship around immediately if she hadn't stolen the key. In this episode, they finally change their minds. At the end Trunks calls Pan 仲間 (comrade) which has the sense of "indispensable ally" and this totally reverses their previously relationship, which was one of moral obligation to take care of a child.
She had already stopped hating him before this. Even after this, she smacks him when he annoys her, which is frequently

Goku and Pan had stopped viewing her as a nuissance and after they got off Imegga, they didn't turn the ship around, ergo she was in no danger of being shipped back, hence schmuck bait.

This didn't TOTALLY reverse their previous relationship. He acts no differently towards her than he did the episode prior than he does in subsequent episodes. It only appears so. They had already progressed to being allies by the Luud arc. Maybe this was explicit but their actions speak volumes.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:45 pm

Pan's insistence to visit M2 is a result of Giru saving her life. That's the difference in their relationship before and after this episode. Pan is seriously hurt by Giru's apparent defection and the scene flashes back to the desert episode to emphasize this.
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:27 pm
Goku and Pan had stopped viewing her as a nuissance and after they got off Imegga, they didn't turn the ship around, ergo she was in no danger of being shipped back, hence schmuck bait. ... Maybe this was explicit but their actions speak volumes.
仲間 is hamfisted anime lingo. You gotta pick up what they're putting down. You could say it's lazy character development but Pan being called nakama in the epilogue is supposed to be significant.

You are changing the goal posts so I am disengaging.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:53 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:45 pm
Pan's insistence to visit M2 is a result of Giru saving her life. That's the difference in their relationship before and after this episode. Pan is seriously hurt by Giru's apparent defection and the scene flashes back to the desert episode to emphasize this.
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 9:27 pm
Goku and Pan had stopped viewing her as a nuissance and after they got off Imegga, they didn't turn the ship around, ergo she was in no danger of being shipped back, hence schmuck bait. ... Maybe this was explicit but their actions speak volumes.
仲間 is hamfisted anime lingo. You gotta pick up what they're putting down. You could say it's lazy character development but Pan being called nakama in the epilogue is supposed to be significant.

You are changing the goal posts so I am disengaging.
When did I change the goalposts?

pan would've been hurt by Giru's betrayal even prior to that one episode and they were going to m2 regardless of whether Pan wanted to or not. It was a Trunks and Giru's plan

I get that it's supposed to be significant but their relationship isn't SHOWN to change. Remember, stories are about showing not just telling. Id didn't miss the dialog. I'm talking about their actions. The onus is on you to give me an example of an ACTION that proves their relationship changed, not dialog. Another way to phrase it is the writers paid lip-service to change.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:31 pm

If I recall, episode 15 was definitely the point when Pan and Gill/Giru truly seemed to become close. Her crying over his supposed betrayal would’ve definitely been less impactful without that.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:53 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:31 pm
If I recall, episode 15 was definitely the point when Pan and Gill/Giru truly seemed to become close. Her crying over his supposed betrayal would’ve definitely been less impactful without that.
But how were their interactions any different from before and after?

Honestly, I think the proximity to the episode is why it feels like it's impactful. It's fresh in the mind of the audience - an episode centered around Giru and Pan, but like I said, after their initial interactions on Imegga, their relationship is more or less unchanged for the remainder of the series.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:43 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:53 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:31 pm
If I recall, episode 15 was definitely the point when Pan and Gill/Giru truly seemed to become close. Her crying over his supposed betrayal would’ve definitely been less impactful without that.
But how were their interactions any different from before and after?

Honestly, I think the proximity to the episode is why it feels like it's impactful. It's fresh in the mind of the audience - an episode centered around Giru and Pan, but like I said, after their initial interactions on Imegga, their relationship is more or less unchanged for the remainder of the series.
Wasn’t episode 15 the first real example of the two of them actually bonding? Before that, Pan seemed to more or less just view him as an annoying robot who they were forced to bring along, at least as far as I remember.

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by Vijay » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:02 am

sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:35 pm
Matches Malone wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:14 pm
sunsetshimmer wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:08 pm
The last 10 minutes of the Shadow Dragons arc is the perfect ending for franchise that Toriyama will never give to you.
The problem with the shadow dragons ending is that despite being good, it takes nearly 16 hours of :yawn: :sick: :| to get to.

When it comes to what Toriyama has been giving us, it may not always be good, but at least it's watchable.
Yeah let's ignore entire great concept behind this arc like it meant nothing for this ending and how every dragon was somewhat related to wish that gave it life. And no other villain than Omega (except for Frieza) ever felt like it could be final villain of story, especially final villains of Z and DBS (talking about Jiren, not Moro but it doesn't really make a big difference). DBZ ending was dumb and out of butt. The only thing that saves it a bit is a fact that Uub came from Goku's wish and isn't just some random kid and believe me, Toriyama would be able to make it this way.

And what is "watchable" for you? If something isn't good but is watchable then what? Because there were things made by Toriyama that were painful to watch as well and that doesn't even include Super.
Can you elaborate on what were things made by Toriyama that were painful to watch? Curious. Dats all. I'm not greatest Toriyama fanboy, but gotta give the man credit where it's due. And I'm not talking abt Super. His works during his prime are obviously watchable

But yeah man. I still remember Yammamuro animated that specific GT episode revealing Shadow Dragons, with KibitoKai & Old Kai explaining to them abt Shadow Dragons. The animation, the plot, the hype was surreal

Sucks the subsequent episodes couldn't keep the momentum going...ofc, dats what happens when instead of fighting REAL, BADASS DRAGONS...GT handed ugly ass green toad, pink duck, fckin mole & weird looking slender monster-of-the-week craps straight outta fckin 60's & 70's TV show

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Re: How to properly watch GT ?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:07 am

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 11:43 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:53 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 10:31 pm
If I recall, episode 15 was definitely the point when Pan and Gill/Giru truly seemed to become close. Her crying over his supposed betrayal would’ve definitely been less impactful without that.
But how were their interactions any different from before and after?

Honestly, I think the proximity to the episode is why it feels like it's impactful. It's fresh in the mind of the audience - an episode centered around Giru and Pan, but like I said, after their initial interactions on Imegga, their relationship is more or less unchanged for the remainder of the series.
Wasn’t episode 15 the first real example of the two of them actually bonding? Before that, Pan seemed to more or less just view him as an annoying robot who they were forced to bring along, at least as far as I remember.
She still finds hi annoying but as I recall she stopped thinking he was forced to be brought along before this episode. This is not some watershed episode where the very nature of their relationship changes. She treats everyone the same from the beginning to the end. She's unfortunately a very flat character.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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