"You're a Weeb"

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:36 am

JustAlex1997 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:18 am
My dad sounded somewhat disappointed when I called myself a nerd once (somewhere in the early 2010's).
I think nowadays everyone's a nerd. You just can't escape nerd culture, be it in games, movies, TV, etc. Your dad probably considers himself a nerd now, as that's pretty much everyone who's into entertainment.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:57 am

sports fans are nerds. They even wear costumes. If you wear a team jersey and aren't part of the team, it's a costume.

Terms change over time and are often appropriated by the group they are intended to disparage (e.g. mark, fan, fanboy, nerd, geek). Geeks used to be the term for circus performers who bit the heads off chickens.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 am

Whether someone watches Dragon Ball dubbed or subbed and uses the dubbed or subbed names and terms is their prerogative. There's no reason in 2020 that terms like "weeb" or "filthy casual" should be used to dismiss a sub or dub fan's preference respectively. We're all fans of this series however we enjoy to watch it.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:44 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:40 am
Whether someone watches Dragon Ball dubbed or subbed and uses the dubbed or subbed names and terms is their prerogative. There's no reason in 2020 that terms like "weeb" or "filthy casual" should be used to dismiss a sub or dub fan's preference respectively. We're all fans of this series however we enjoy to watch it.
Agreed.

Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball, whether you prefer the Japanese sub, the old Funi dubs, the modern Funi dubs, the Ocean dubs, the French dubs, the Latin American dubs, or whatever else. :)

I'm all for encouraging people to try out the other versions, particularly for people to try out the Japanese version if they haven't already, but in my mind, it's more of a broadening of horizons, finding new, alternate ways to enjoy a thing you already like, rather than watching a "more correct" or "more valid" version or whatever other gatekeepy bullshit that can go around at times. Granted, a factor in recommending one version over another is faithfulness to the source material, but that doesn't invalidate anyone's joy of the less-faithful versions.

Personally, I grew up on the Ocean and Funimation versions in pretty much equal measure, and enjoyed both immensely. But thanks to Super, I got into the Japanese version about five years ago, and I think it's really deepened my appreciation of a lot of things in the show. There's nothing quite like the consistent run of DB+Z+GT in Japanese, and I take every opportunity to encourage existing fans to try watching the show like that at least once in their life.
But at the same time, I still hold a great love for the classic English dubs (though admittedly, I don't think the early in-house Funimation work has aged that great :lol:), with Ocean's remaining my favourite way to just enjoy Dragon Ball.
With how much I enjoy the various different versions, my view is that if you're enough of a fan to hang out here on Kanzenshuu, probably you will get a lot of joy out of trying out some alternate versions too.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:08 am

I encourage dub fans to watch the show in Japanese. The dub changes so much and a lot of Toriyama's distinctive voice was lost. They aren't getting the true experience of DB. It's not gatekeeper BS to say that the dub is not true to the original voice of the story. That said, it doesn't matter what your entry point is. Like most westerners, I started with the dub.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:15 am

ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:08 am
I encourage dub fans to watch the show in Japanese. The dub changes so much and a lot of Toriyama's distinctive voice was lost.
Indeed.
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:08 am
They aren't getting the true experience of DB.
They aren't getting the original intended experience, no. But again, Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. If someone really likes the dubs, then nothing wrong with that. Probably they'd get a lot out of trying the Japanese version to get a more authentic presentation of the original intention, but people can enjoy what they want to enjoy.

And of course, there is the caveat to all this that the modern Funi dubs are pretty damn good in general. Not immune to criticism, for sure, since particularly in the Super dub, they drop in a lot of script changes, but for the most part, if you can't/won't watch in Japanese, the modern dubs will serve you pretty well.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:17 am

I just listen to the sub because I find japanese voices relaxing lol. I don't see how that makes me a weeb, since I am not even that big of an anime fan. I haven't seen a lot of animes beyond the mainstream shows like Dragon Ball.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Witty User Name » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:36 am

Semantics and all, but isn't the correct term ''weaboo''?

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:04 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:15 am
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:08 am
I encourage dub fans to watch the show in Japanese. The dub changes so much and a lot of Toriyama's distinctive voice was lost.
Indeed.
ABED wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:08 am
They aren't getting the true experience of DB.
They aren't getting the original intended experience, no. But again, Dragon Ball is Dragon Ball. If someone really likes the dubs, then nothing wrong with that. Probably they'd get a lot out of trying the Japanese version to get a more authentic presentation of the original intention, but people can enjoy what they want to enjoy.

And of course, there is the caveat to all this that the modern Funi dubs are pretty damn good in general. Not immune to criticism, for sure, since particularly in the Super dub, they drop in a lot of script changes, but for the most part, if you can't/won't watch in Japanese, the modern dubs will serve you pretty well.
And that's fair. Enjoy what you enjoy.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:19 am

I find the modern meaning of “weeb” to be “you appear to be more invested in this Japanese property than I am and/or was aware one could be and that makes me defensive because I recognize that I too may be at or approaching that level by even being in a situation to recognize this fact and that makes me uncomfortable.”
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:17 am

Saiga wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:47 am
That's not the common usage of the term, it's similar in meaning to "geek" but carries a lot more social stigma (but then again, so did nerd and geek until more recently).

It could also be comparable to something like "fanboy/girl" which can be used to describe people who take their fandom to obsessive/unhealthy levels.
That's because western fans just wholesale bought the term without understanding its origins or the subculture it comes fans. The lot of us here are much closer to being 'fans', as opposed to Otaku.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:39 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:25 am
Otaku as we use it in the west really ignores the content of its coinage so I always shirk when I see it used in the western fandom. The fundamental attribute of an Otaku--going by Saitou Tamaki's analysis--is the ability to orgasm to an anime character. To experience romantic attraction to them.
I suppose you can think of it that way but that’s not what the word means. オタク originally just meant (and still means, in the proper context) officionado. A baseball fan who likes the statistics is an otaku. An idol/vocalist fanatic is an otaku. A manga connoisseur is an otaku. It now has the connotation of “shut-in” because of the correlation between the shut-in phenomenon in Japan and an excess of leisure and time for hobbies. But even in that narrow sense, the connotation need not be sexual. Not all shut-ins are sexual deviants.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Alruneia » Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:48 am

"Weeb" is a term that has lost all meaning. "Weeb" is short for "weeaboo", which was once a word replacement for "wapanese", which is short for "wannabe Japanese". As another poster mentioned before, there's an old Filthy Frank video on the subject, and that video used that original meaning. That was years ago, though, and now the word has been "ironic"-ed to death at least twice. Fittingly, the vast majority of people who use "weeb" today are considered "weebs" themselves; that's just kinda what happens when you butcher a term's meaning beyond recognition. In short, the word has no power as an insult and can safely be ignored.

Side note, being an otaku is, at the basic level, just a matter of having an unhealthy obsession with something. You can be an anime/manga otaku, a baseball otaku, a cooking otaku, a train otaku... Anything, really.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:11 am

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:39 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:25 am
Otaku as we use it in the west really ignores the content of its coinage so I always shirk when I see it used in the western fandom. The fundamental attribute of an Otaku--going by Saitou Tamaki's analysis--is the ability to orgasm to an anime character. To experience romantic attraction to them.
I suppose you can think of it that way but that’s not what the word means. オタク originally just meant officionado. A baseball fan who likes the statistics is an otaku. An idol/vocalist fanatic is an otaku. A manga connoisseur is an otaku. It now has the connotation of “shut-in” because of the correlation between the shut-in phenomenon in Japan and an excess of leisure and time for hobbies. But even in that narrow sense, the connotation need not be sexual. Not all shut-ins are sexual deviants.
That's missing a lot of context.

Otaku is from the second-person pronouns 'otaku' (you), which according to columnist (and idol fan) Nakamori Akio was used by the 'socially awkward' men to refer to one another because anything else would've been too personal or too formal. It was coined as a term describing fans of anime in a Manga Burikko column written by Nakamori Akio called 'Otaku no Kenkyuu'. In the July 1983 issue Nakamori referred to Otaku as being "それにさぁ、奴ら男性的能力が欠除してるせいか妙におカマっぽいんだよね。" (myou ni okama-ppoi; 'strangely faggy' going by the translation present in Otaku and the Struggle for Imagination in Japan). This was in the thick of the 1970s-1980s Lolicon Boom, where Otaku would openly gush (or even dress up as) their beloved cute girl characters (Clarisse, Lum-chan, Minky Momo, Creamy Mami and many more). This to Nakamori was a lack of masculinity--after all, these men had abandoned reading boys' and mens' comics in favor of reading and even creating their own girls' comics--and thus he deigned them all faggots for preferring fictional girls.

As for Otaku as shut-ins, that's not true, either. Saitou Tamaki coined the term hikihomori and is a leading expert on shut-ins in Japan but as he describes in his 2000 (thus admittedly somewhat out-of-date) book Beautiful Fighting Girl, Otaku are not shut-ins. A hikikomori can be an Otaku but an Otaku can be a doctor or a lawyer...or the director of an anime. Hell, most animation workers in Japan are Otaku themselves: they fell in love with a cute girl character and decided to work in the industry as a result.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:43 am

Dear lord, "weeaboo" is such a dumb sounding term.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Zestanor » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:39 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:11 am

Otaku
Read the wikipedia article on otaku. With all due respect I think you are projecting yourself and your experiences and interactions onto the concept instead of considering it academically. It’s basically equivalent to geek, which originally was neutral, then gained a stigma, then lost the stigma, at least in some uses.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:43 am

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:39 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:11 am

Otaku
Read the wikipedia article on otaku. With all due respect I think you are projecting yourself and your experiences and interactions onto the concept instead of considering it academically. It’s basically equivalent to geek, which originally was neutral, then gained a stigma, then lost the stigma, at least in some uses.
I've literally cited the books I'm taking from. This isn't me speaking. This is laying out the facts of the history presented in the text I've read.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ABED » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:23 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:39 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:11 am

Otaku
Read the wikipedia article on otaku. With all due respect I think you are projecting yourself and your experiences and interactions onto the concept instead of considering it academically. It’s basically equivalent to geek, which originally was neutral, then gained a stigma, then lost the stigma, at least in some uses.
Geek wasn't neutral originally. I think you can imagine people's reactions to the carnival performer who bit the head off chickens or snakes. I'm inclined to believe Julie on this one on specificity alone.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:25 pm

Zestanor wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:39 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:11 am

Otaku
Read the wikipedia article on otaku. With all due respect I think you are projecting yourself and your experiences and interactions onto the concept instead of considering it academically. It’s basically equivalent to geek, which originally was neutral, then gained a stigma, then lost the stigma, at least in some uses.
Wikipedia is not a good source for... Anything, really. And no offense, but I'm far more inclined to believe Julie's clearly-more-well-read take than to believe someone who says "Read a Wikipedia article" as your response to her properly-cited post.

I suggest you read up on this a little. Wikipedia is a bad source, but generally it will cite sources that you can then read for yourself; provided you read them fully, not just skimming the parts Wikipedia points to, you can get a great start in researching a subject.
That's the real academic value in Wikipedia; not as a source, for which it is 100% utterly and totally useless (look at an article you haven't read, about something you're very well-versed in, and you'll immediately see why this is the case), but as a tool to get your research started.
Dragon Ball is a goofy kids cartoon from a long time ago. You take it too seriously at your own peril.
Debate the plot, characters, adaptations, dubs, etc., criticise the home video, but never lose sight of the fact that it's all just entertainment. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you're not enjoying it, just walk away.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Metalwario64 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:38 pm

JustAlex1997 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:31 pm
The North American Dragon Ball fanbase is split between the English and Japanese dubs. Because of how radically different the two dubs can be (particularly with earlier media), the two sides often clash over which is superior. When it comes to fans of the English dub, they often dismiss those who prefer the Japanese dub by calling them "weebs". This is baffling because it implies that Dragon Ball is only an anime if it's in Japanese.

I understand that Funimation used to treat Dragon Ball like an American action cartoon, but do people genuinely not know that it isn't one?
It's not a Dragon Ball problem by any means.

These days anytime anyone says they prefer the Japanese version of an anime, you have these types of people crawling out of the woodwork to say "OMG I watch MY anime in English you weeb!!" These days, just liking anything Japanese at all is enough to get you called a "weeb." :roll:
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