"You're a Weeb"

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:10 pm

Nine year old Julie had bad taste. So did all the other kids. :lol:
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by kei17 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 pm

I can't fully deny Funi's marketing strategy, though. The DB franchise had failed multiple times in the US already, and considering how small the company was back then, they had to bet on the safest, most reasonable way to appeal to the American children at the time. Anime in general was not treated seriously in the first place.

However, I think they had gone too far to target a specific audience. From what I know, the series was already gaining popularity during CN was airing the Saban-era episodes, which were not intended to be as "badass" as Funi's own version that came after that. They started to overly appeal to early teenagers who wanted "hardcore" stuff by hiring "real bands" and all that, which might have enhanced the temporary success, but it relied too much on the zeitgeist and I think it spoiled the depth and expansivity of the series as a result. They made it overly American, non-universal, and cheesy, and by that, they limited the potential of the franchise in the long term. A lot of people still love such a virtual image that Funi fabricated, and they want to deny any opinions and facts that hurt their nostalgia based upon it, by yelling "You are a weeb."

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:29 pm

kei17 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 pm
I can't fully deny Funi's marketing strategy, though. The DB franchise had failed multiple times in the US already, and considering how small the company was back then, they had to bet on the safest, most reasonable way to appeal to the American children at the time. Anime in general was not treated seriously in the first place.

However, I think they had gone too far to target a specific audience. From what I know, the series was already gaining popularity during CN was airing the Saban-era episodes, which were not intended to be as "badass" as Funi's own version that came after that. They started to overly appeal to early teenagers who wanted "hardcore" stuff by hiring "real bands" and all that, which might have enhanced the temporary success, but it relied too much on the zeitgeist and I think it spoiled the depth and expansivity of the series as a result. They made it overly American, non-universal, and cheesy, and by that, they limited the potential of the franchise in the long term. A lot of people still love such a virtual image that Funi fabricated, and they want to deny any opinions and facts that hurt their nostalgia based upon it, by yelling "You are a weeb."
Yeah, and it's hard to blame Funimation for considering a different approach. Harmony Gold retained the original score, but had some awkward translation choices, that bombed. Then the BLT dub came along, which used a Kikuchi-esque synth replacement score and rather faithful scripts, considerably more successful but still nothing significant. After BLT we get the Saban dub, which featured a more serious sounding ominous score and poor scripts, so arguably the furthest from the series original feel, yet it was the one that caught on, led on to season 3 and the rest is history.

At some point when the series started to become really popular I think Funimation's could have tried to go in a more faithful direction with Z. The Pioneer movie trilogy showed there was a demand for that kind of material, but Funimation's didn't want to risk it. They were a new company, it's never an easy choice. Sadly it was all that confusion that led to divisions in the fandom.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:09 pm

I don't really see why people argue in the first place over it. It's a pointless debate where nobody on either side will budge on their position one bit. So nobody goes anywhere. These arguments over personal preference are just circular.

This may sound cheesy and preachy, but I don't really care how one watches and enjoys DB. Like watching in English? You win. Japanese? You win too. In the end we are watching the same shows. The way you enjoy DB is as valid as mine or anyone else. We all have slightly different views and beliefs about it, and will have some disagreements, but it's no reason to just tear eachother limb from limb.

I myself sit squarely on the fence on the matter. I can watch both sub and dub no problem, can appreciate the talent and work of both casts, and can respect their own takes on the same material. To simply dismiss either one as "lol shut up weeb" or "lol shut up Funi fanboy" is playground argument tactics.

Sub vs Dub arguments are just the grown up version of "X could totally beat Y in a fight!!!"
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by samuraix123 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:42 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:09 pm
I don't really see why people argue in the first place over it. It's a pointless debate where nobody on either side will budge on their position one bit. So nobody goes anywhere. These arguments over personal preference are just circular.

This may sound cheesy and preachy, but I don't really care how one watches and enjoys DB. Like watching in English? You win. Japanese? You win too. In the end we are watching the same shows. The way you enjoy DB is as valid as mine or anyone else. We all have slightly different views and beliefs about it, and will have some disagreements, but it's no reason to just tear eachother limb from limb.

I myself sit squarely on the fence on the matter. I can watch both sub and dub no problem, can appreciate the talent and work of both casts, and can respect their own takes on the same material. To simply dismiss either one as "lol shut up weeb" or "lol shut up Funi fanboy" is playground argument tactics.

Sub vs Dub arguments are just the grown up version of "X could totally beat Y in a fight!!!"
I've had the same opinion as well for years. lol I've never once talked about nor cared what version people like to watch. :roll: but it's the internet and people gotta have something to argue over. lol
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:45 pm

kei17 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 pm
I can't fully deny Funi's marketing strategy, though. The DB franchise had failed multiple times in the US already, and considering how small the company was back then, they had to bet on the safest, most reasonable way to appeal to the American children at the time. Anime in general was not treated seriously in the first place.

However, I think they had gone too far to target a specific audience. From what I know, the series was already gaining popularity during CN was airing the Saban-era episodes, which were not intended to be as "badass" as Funi's own version that came after that. They started to overly appeal to early teenagers who wanted "hardcore" stuff by hiring "real bands" and all that, which might have enhanced the temporary success, but it relied too much on the zeitgeist and I think it spoiled the depth and expansivity of the series as a result. They made it overly American, non-universal, and cheesy, and by that, they limited the potential of the franchise in the long term. A lot of people still love such a virtual image that Funi fabricated, and they want to deny any opinions and facts that hurt their nostalgia based upon it, by yelling "You are a weeb."
There wasn’t really a difference between the way the show was marketed before the in-house cast was used. FUNimation specifically approached DBZ with the intention of making it more like other action children’s action shows that were on at the time. That was the case before and after their partnership with Saban ended.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:20 am

kei17 wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:44 pm
However, I think they had gone too far to target a specific audience. From what I know, the series was already gaining popularity during CN was airing the Saban-era episodes,
Actually, the show was already a major hit when Saban's "Season 2" was airing in syndication.

As indicated by: https://www.kanzenshuu.com/press-archiv ... z-sidebar/
■ RATINGS & TV STATIONS
Currently syndicated in the US by Saban Domestic Distribution in its Saban’s Kids Block, DRAGON BALL Z is being broadcast in over 85% of the country with top ratings for a weekly syndicated series (especially in they [sic] key boys 6-11 demographic). It posted impressive ratings during November sweeps (between 4 and 11 for Kids and Teens) in key markets such as New York’s WPIX (Sun. 8:30 AM), Baltimore’s WNUV (Sat. 8:00 AM), and Dallas’ KTXA (Sun. 9:30 AM). For next season, Saban Kids Network came out of NATPE having been cleared in 75% of the US. Participating stations includes: New York’s WPIX and WABC, Los Angeles’ KCOP & KCAL, Chicago’s WPWR & WCIU, Philadelphia’s WPHL, Cleveland’s WBNX, Tampa’s WTTA and Miami’s WDZL.
It's also worth noting that, while season 1 hadn't been particularly more successful than their short-lived run of DB episodes 1-13 at first, it did gain a lot of popularity with time. I forget where the data is on this, but as I recall, Saban had mostly aired season 1 weekly, one episode at a time, whereas season 2 was consistently double bills, and the season was 30 episodes long instead of 26 (a lot of people forget that season 2 was 30 episodes, rather than 27; Saban's version of DBZ movie 3, "Tree Of Might", was aired as three regular episodes in the middle of season 2), which -- as I recall -- is said to have been done to suit the demand for more, given the popularity the show was picking up.

The common story that goes around is that DBZ got two seasons in syndication, then was cancelled due to low ratings, then Toonami picked it up, and it gained its first taste of success there, thus Toonami saved it from obscurity, and catapulted it to super stardom... This is completely wrong.
The truth is that it had been successful in syndication, but Saban re-organised their programming after season 2, and moved to more in-house shows (shows that earned Saban more money), so DBZ got dropped. I don't think they had any trouble finding a second home; in fact, even more of this narrative that's often pushed is totally false, particularly the "oh jeez we looped back to the beginning FOREVER before new episodes" part that gets talked about a lot; I'm pretty sure Cartoon Network had the Saban episodes in reruns just a couple of months after the initial cancellation, then the VHS tapes of the new episodes were on store shelves less than a year later, and those episodes hit TV just a few months after that.
So, anyone who started watching when it hit CN would have had to put up with it looping for, at most, just over a year. Granted, if you happened to have watched it on syndication for the two preceeding years, this looping of reruns would be a little dull. But I think a lot of the "god! it looped FOREVER!!" narrative comes from the way children tend to extend the timescales of things in their heads, plus memories of other times the early episodes played again after the latest saga were probably conflated in too.

So, what I'm saying is pretty much the entire commonly-spread narrative of Dragon Ball's journey to America is nonsense invented by people recalling vague memories they had from childhood, most of which were distorted by rumour and assumption.
WittyUsername wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:45 pm
There wasn’t really a difference between the way the show was marketed before the in-house cast was used. FUNimation specifically approached DBZ with the intention of making it more like other action children’s action shows that were on at the time. That was the case before and after their partnership with Saban ended.
The Saban run always struck me as being far more deliberately hammy, over-the-top, and goofy (which, arguably, is quite faithful to how the show was intended in Japan, despite the rather distorted lens it was presented through), whereas Funi's in-house work had far more of a "we're taking it seriously, but we're kinda bad at it, so it ends up far cheesier and sillier than we mean" feel.
Also doesn't help that script accuracy went down the toilet when they moved in-house. (Not that the Saban scripts were ever great, but they really took a dive when they moved in-house. I'm not sure what happened)
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by VegettoEX » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:54 am

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:20 am
I'm pretty sure Cartoon Network had the Saban episodes in reruns just a couple of months after the initial cancellation, then the VHS tapes of the new episodes were on store shelves less than a year later, and those episodes hit TV just a few months after that.
So, anyone who started watching when it hit CN would have had to put up with it looping for, at most, just over a year. Granted, if you happened to have watched it on syndication for the two preceeding years, this looping of reruns would be a little dull. But I think a lot of the "god! it looped FOREVER!!" narrative comes from the way children tend to extend the timescales of things in their heads, plus memories of other times the early episodes played again after the latest saga were probably conflated in too.

So, what I'm saying is pretty much the entire commonly-spread narrative of Dragon Ball's journey to America is nonsense invented by people recalling vague memories they had from childhood, most of which were distorted by rumour and assumption.
Yeah, this has been one of my big hills to die on recently. There's a lot of revisionist history going on about how successful it was and what the timeline was. You already covered a lot of what I typically go into, but just wanted to confirm that,

Indeed, "season two" ended its broadcast in May 1998.

That same August, Cartoon Network began airing the show on Toonami, looping seasons one and two. (Don't have an exact news article for that, but here's one about them playing dub episode 10.)

That December, FUNimation's in-house dub of DB movie 2 on VHS came out.

In May 1999, the first two "season three" tapes hit VHS. Another two hit in August.

In September 1999, "season three" began airing on Cartoon Network.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:13 pm

Robo4900 wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:20 am
WittyUsername wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:45 pm
There wasn’t really a difference between the way the show was marketed before the in-house cast was used. FUNimation specifically approached DBZ with the intention of making it more like other action children’s action shows that were on at the time. That was the case before and after their partnership with Saban ended.
The Saban run always struck me as being far more deliberately hammy, over-the-top, and goofy (which, arguably, is quite faithful to how the show was intended in Japan, despite the rather distorted lens it was presented through), whereas Funi's in-house work had far more of a "we're taking it seriously, but we're kinda bad at it, so it ends up far cheesier and sillier than we mean" feel.
FUNimation’s in-house dub was hardly lacking in corny jokes. If anything, it actually ramped up the dumb jokes, especially when it came to Freeza. Even the narrator got in on the goofy one liners.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:34 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:54 am
Yeah, this has been one of my big hills to die on recently. There's a lot of revisionist history going on about how successful it was and what the timeline was. You already covered a lot of what I typically go into, but just wanted to confirm that,
[...]
Thanks. It's a bit of a sticking point for me too. Will have to bookmark those links for future reference. :)
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:43 pm

It's amazing how condensed that timeframe is and yet as a kid, it all felt interminable.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Metalwario64 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:27 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:43 pm
It's amazing how condensed that timeframe is and yet as a kid, it all felt interminable.
For me, I recorded every episode, and I also watched the reruns on the Midnight Run and so I was watching it more than it aired, so in hindsight, it felt like it was repeating more than it was.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:28 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:43 pm
It's amazing how condensed that timeframe is and yet as a kid, it all felt interminable.
Indeed; time always seems to stretch further as a kid.

It's been quite a shock going back to episodes of shows I remember being epic-proportioned sagas as a kid, which end up just being a solid, breezy 22 minutes of TV as an adult.

Though, in fairness, in this specific case, there's also the factor that it's quite likely many kids conflated the first two seasons loop with the way the show would tend to loop back around to episode 1 when a new saga would end.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by 10gigtriforce » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:11 pm

ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:43 pm
It's amazing how condensed that timeframe is and yet as a kid, it all felt interminable.
Honestly i think it may be because it was a lot bigger portion of our lives back then. a yearish when you're 8 is 1/8 of your life. pretty big chunk. now in our late 20s and early 30s 1 year isnt a huge chunk of our lives. maybe some sub conscious thing that measures time.

ether way i just know i was happy the wait for new dbz was over

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Majin Buu » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:22 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:09 pm
This may sound cheesy and preachy, but I don't really care how one watches and enjoys DB. Like watching in English? You win. Japanese? You win too. In the end we are watching the same shows.
The bolded part of your statement ignores just how much of DBZ was altered with Funimation's dub. This is a well meaning statement, but it ignores why this particular division can get so fierce in this fandom. Funimation dub Z and Japanese Z are not the same show.

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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by ABED » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:30 pm

10gigtriforce wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:11 pm
ABED wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:43 pm
It's amazing how condensed that timeframe is and yet as a kid, it all felt interminable.
Honestly i think it may be because it was a lot bigger portion of our lives back then. a yearish when you're 8 is 1/8 of your life. pretty big chunk. now in our late 20s and early 30s 1 year isnt a huge chunk of our lives. maybe some sub conscious thing that measures time.

ether way i just know i was happy the wait for new dbz was over
The way I was told it was in the opposite direction. A year of your life when you're a kid is less of a percentage of your remaining life than if you're older. Regardless, it's a feeling everyone recognizes at some point in their lives.

The internet was also in its infancy, so I don't think the kind of information I was looking for like airdates, if the show was coming back, etc would've been as easily searchable as it is now, especially not for a pre-teen
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by MCDaveG » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:16 am

The thing is that our brain is able to perceivce a lot more information from the world at the sme time as we are kids. As we are older, we filter more and can not absorb as much information as before. That is why the time passes more slowly being a kid and flash forwards when we are older... I remember watching Z and GT for ages, when in reality the run of GT on Polish TV went for like few months... Dragon Ball before Z came on Germany, was on loop actually and at first, I was put down by the show horrible looks and boring pacing as I had to sit trough it before Digimon 😂 But, the 23rd Budokai arc picked my interest and Z soldified it.
I can imagine how excruciating can it be, when you watch show running in loop of just 22 episodes trough half a year. That is aeons for kids!
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by Dr. Casey » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:20 pm

There's a number of reasons for the time phenomenon that's being talked about. One of the simplest reasons is a physical one: I read a long time ago that the area of the brain that controls how long or short time 'feels' changes a bit during adolescence (I think it's said to weaken a bit somehow, but I forget the details). And, as mentioned, years and even decades make up a proportionally smaller amount of our life the deeper into it we go.

To some extent, even decades are beginning to feel smaller to me now. Thanks to the fact that I have a crystal clear memory of the 2010s, I can go "Okay, this is what a decade feels like" and use it as an example/template for the 2020s. I couldn't do this ten years ago because I was a kid during the 90s and have incredibly few memories of the decade's early years, and although my memory of the 2000s is vastly less hazy, my mental records of the 2000s are still much more skimpy than what I have for the 10s (1999 and 2000 are probably the first years where I can narrow down a lot of my memories to specific months, but 2006 is the first year where I can go through it month-by-month and cite specific memories from each). Not to mention that if the physical cause I mentioned earlier is true, the portion of the brain that controls your perception of time was probably still in its original, unchanged state for much of the decade.

So, yeah - it's also easier to understand the length of something if you have a clear frame of reference. Memory becomes more stable the older you get. If you're in kindergarten, you know what a day feels like a day and maybe what a week feels like, but you might be uncertain on what a month feels like. If you're in middle school, you know perfectly well what a month feels like, but might not fully get what a year feels like; you've lived through a fair number by that point, but at that age even memories of recent years can be riddled with holes and gaps.
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Re: "You're a Weeb"

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Jul 03, 2020 12:17 pm

It's just an empty insult used by FUNi DBZ fanboys who don't want to admit their old precious dub objectively isn't good.
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I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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