Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:53 pm

8000 Saiyan wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:28 pm
I couldn't care less if it's not a black or an Asian actor/actress doing the voices for Asian or black characters if they're done well. I mean, Monica Rial and Chris Sabat voiced African-Americans in a show I'm not remembering at the moment and they worked well. Samurai Jack is voiced by Phil LaMarr, an African-American and he hasn't been given shit for his performance. Hell, most anime that are set in Japan and that have Japanese characters are dubbed over by white people.
https://twitter.com/phillamarr/status/1 ... 4802331650

Edit: Went change my post and ended up deleting a part

Basically, I think the one pro's to casting correct races (or even a producer would be good honestly) is that there are certain insights they can have to a certain background that other races might not have (they could research most definitely) and I agree thats harder in Anime for a variety of reasons (see blue popo).
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Super Sonic » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:58 pm

I admit part of me felt ashamed before watching "El Cazador de la Bruja" as due the title being Spanish I assumed that the leads would be played by Monica Rial and Brina Palencia. Trina Nishimura and Maxey Whitehead do good jobs, but I felt bad for stereotyping. Also what above guy mentioned about wanting to avoid stereotypes reminded me of the first season of "Infinite Stratos". In there, a guy has an international harem, which the dub went further with by having the British, French and German girls have accents, while the Chinese girl didn't. Hilary Haag sounded fine, but understood why they didn't give her one.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:36 pm

By the way, what’s the stance on men voicing women?

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:45 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:36 pm
By the way, what’s the stance on men voicing women?
Typically offensive.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Super Sonic » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:45 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:36 pm
By the way, what’s the stance on men voicing women?
If it works. And I'm not just talking about crossdressers. Ed Asner as Granny Goodness was pretty good casting.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:49 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:36 pm
By the way, what’s the stance on men voicing women?
I agree with the post above (forgot about him!)
Speaking of! G-kids got an actress and transgender activist for the role and it's overall been received pretty well.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by ABED » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:53 pm

I think men voicing women REALLY depends. Ed Asner as Granny Goodness was f'n perfect. And wasn't the original actor for Uranai Baba male? I like Tanaka in the role, but the original actor really sold the "old crone" aspect so well. It should be rare, bottom line.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:55 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:53 pm
I think men voicing women REALLY depends. Ed Asner as Granny Goodness was f'n perfect. And wasn't the original actor for Uranai Baba male? I like Tanaka in the role, but the original actor really sold the "old crone" aspect so well. It should be rare, bottom line.
Yep, he was hilarious in the part.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:04 pm

ABED wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:53 pm
I think men voicing women REALLY depends. Ed Asner as Granny Goodness was f'n perfect. And wasn't the original actor for Uranai Baba male? I like Tanaka in the role, but the original actor really sold the "old crone" aspect so well. It should be rare, bottom line.
Chris Sabat also played Baba in the Revenge of King Piccolo game.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:06 pm

So, I guess I’ll ask this again, should it be considered acceptable for non-Japanese/non-Asian people to voice anime characters? It kind of seems like if you want to commit to giving more roles to people of color, then you can’t really have white people voicing anime characters, unless the characters are explicitly supposed to be of European descent, like in Attack on Titan.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:06 pm
So, I guess I’ll ask this again, should it be considered acceptable for non-Japanese/non-Asian people to voice anime characters? It kind of seems like if you want to commit to giving more roles to people of color, then you can’t really have white people voicing anime characters, unless the characters are explicitly supposed to be of European descent, like in Attack on Titan.
I think it's fine, but I do think there needs to be more of a chance for non-white VA's to get more roles. I think there is an added bonus of the actor and character being the same race or geographical area/cultural background (and as I stated above a diverse producer pool would be of great help too).

I'm reminded of how Peter Kelamis didn't like seeing Goku naked and didn't get why it was even there and not understanding how nudity is not as frowned upon as much as it is in the west (arguably). And this is where the "localization" thing comes into play and the years of censorship and changing things debates this forum has had.
Last edited by eledoremassis02 on Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:23 pm

Does representation really matter when it comes to voice actors for animated shows? It's not like you ever see the people behind the voices.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:28 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:06 pm
So, I guess I’ll ask this again, should it be considered acceptable for non-Japanese/non-Asian people to voice anime characters? It kind of seems like if you want to commit to giving more roles to people of color, then you can’t really have white people voicing anime characters, unless the characters are explicitly supposed to be of European descent, like in Attack on Titan.
I think it's fine, but I do think there needs to be more of a chance for non-white VA's to get more roles. I think there is an added bonus of the actor and character being the same race or geographical area/cultural background (and as I stated above a diverse producer pool would be of great help too).

I'm reminded of how Peter Kelamis didn't like seeing Goku naked and didn't get why it was even there and not understanding how nudity is not as frowned upon as much as it is in the west (arguably). And this is where the "localization" thing comes into play and the years of censorship and changing things cause the west wouldn't understand debates this forum has had.
All I know is that this is giving ISWV a lot more ammo, which they’re happily taking advantage of, especially against Monica Rial and Jamie Marchi.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:32 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:23 pm
Does representation really matter when it comes to voice actors for animated shows? It's not like you ever see the people behind the voices.
Yes. Representation leads to inspiration. Positive media images re-enforce self-confidence. This applies to all minorities.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:53 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:06 pm
So, I guess I’ll ask this again, should it be considered acceptable for non-Japanese/non-Asian people to voice anime characters? It kind of seems like if you want to commit to giving more roles to people of color, then you can’t really have white people voicing anime characters, unless the characters are explicitly supposed to be of European descent, like in Attack on Titan.
I think it's fine, but I do think there needs to be more of a chance for non-white VA's to get more roles. I think there is an added bonus of the actor and character being the same race or geographical area/cultural background (and as I stated above a diverse producer pool would be of great help too).

I'm reminded of how Peter Kelamis didn't like seeing Goku naked and didn't get why it was even there and not understanding how nudity is not as frowned upon as much as it is in the west (arguably). And this is where the "localization" thing comes into play and the years of censorship and changing things debates this forum has had.
That's what I was saying, that's the discussion that casting directors and voice actors are having right now. And I can tell you that, while not everybody has come to the same conclusion as to whether or not the voice actor necessarily has to have the same ethnicity of the character they're dubbing, there has been a near-universal conclusion that non-white voice actors need to get far more opportunities to audition for these roles than they're currently getting.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by MyVisionity » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:06 pm

Granny Goodness and Uranai Baba are both freaks, so I understand why those actors worked as well as they did. That doesn't mean that those roles should have been open to men in the first place, though.

WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:06 pm
So, I guess I’ll ask this again, should it be considered acceptable for non-Japanese/non-Asian people to voice anime characters? It kind of seems like if you want to commit to giving more roles to people of color, then you can’t really have white people voicing anime characters, unless the characters are explicitly supposed to be of European descent, like in Attack on Titan.
It seems like there's much to consider racially speaking, when so many manga/anime characters tend to be drawn with Caucasian features to begin with, regardless of any intended ethnicity. There's also the differences between anime that take place in a fantasy world versus anime that take place in the real world.

As for the actors involved, I think the issue may be less of whether non-Asian actors should be cast and more about hiring a larger number of Asian talent.

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:23 pm
Does representation really matter when it comes to voice actors for animated shows? It's not like you ever see the people behind the voices.
You may not see them, but they are still there. And race and ethnicity are about more than just physical appearance. There's much to be found in a person's voice other than words on a page. Not to mention what the actor brings to the entire production simply by being present. Also, there's the issue of hiring opportunity for minorities and being underrepresented. Nevermind the history of things like Blackface and Yellowface. So yes it matters.

eledoremassis02 wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 8:16 pm
I'm reminded of how Peter Kelamis didn't like seeing Goku naked and didn't get why it was even there and not understanding how nudity is not as frowned upon as much as it is in the west (arguably). And this is where the "localization" thing comes into play and the years of censorship and changing things debates this forum has had.
Did not know this about Peter Kelamis and wonder what it was all about. This is a whole other topic, but the nudity in Dragon Ball is one of my favorite things about the series and plays an important role in my view, so that's interesting. (Also odd that the actor who seemed to "get" Goku the most would have an issue with his nudity.)

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by FireFly » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:11 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:31 am
FireFly wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:44 am
How exactly do different ethnic groups sound different if assuming that they already speak fluent, American-sounding English?
What's "fluent, American-sounding English"?
Fluent English without a foreign accent or other "ticks" that suggest the person isn't of American birth, perhaps?
VegettoEX wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:31 am
FireFly wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:44 am
The thought that we should have minority-specific voices for characters is a bit of a racial stereotype in the first place, no?
Yes, absolutely; it's terrible that they're often only considered for aliens and robots and shit. Except:
FireFly wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:44 am
I'd say it's probably a bad thing if tons of ethnic minority voice actors and actresses apply for these roles and still don't get them because whites are being preferred over them
As I said before and as Julie just reiterated, they're historically not even getting the auditions.
If they're not even getting the auditions, that's a bad thing for sure. But even outside of minority-majority (heh) shows like The Boondocks, there are many examples of PoC voice actors/actresses like Kaiji Tang and Stephanie Sheh. I think it probably can't be helped that whites will always be the majority in voice acting (as with most other fields in general) since they're the majority race, but everybody should definitely have equal opportunity.
VegettoEX wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:31 am

Things are moving and shaking, but they need to be and can be better.
Agreed. But to pretend that Asian and black actors don't even get auditions at all is a bit dishonest imo.
JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:45 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:36 pm
By the way, what’s the stance on men voicing women?
Typically offensive.
If they can sound the part it should be fine. Older women typically have hoarser and deeper voices than younger women, just like boys have higher voices than men. So if women can voice kids of both genders, I fail to see why men shouldn't voice women if they can sound the part. In fact, a man even voiced Lin from Hokuto no Ken, a young girl, because he was able to mimic a girl's voice.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Locust » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:16 pm

FireFly wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:11 pm
Agreed. But to pretend that Asian and black actors don't even get auditions at all is a bit dishonest imo.
I don't have stats for voice acting in particular, but it's pretty well known that people with "ethnic", "Black", etc sounding names - that can affect whether or not they even get a job interview, due to racial biases
"White" sounding names were vastly prefered by interviewers

The book Freakonomics went into this some, and if you google around, you'll find quite a lot of articles about this
Last edited by Locust on Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by FireFly » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:17 pm

Locust wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:16 pm
FireFly wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:11 pm
Agreed. But to pretend that Asian and black actors don't even get auditions at all is a bit dishonest imo.
I don't have stats for voice acting in particular, but it's pretty well known that people with "ethnic", "Black", etc sounding names - that can affect whether or not they even get an interview, due to racial biases

The book Freakonomics went into this some, and if you google around, you'll find quite a lot of articles about this
Link me to those articles, please.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Locust » Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:19 pm

FireFly wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:17 pm
Locust wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:16 pm
FireFly wrote:
Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:11 pm
Agreed. But to pretend that Asian and black actors don't even get auditions at all is a bit dishonest imo.
I don't have stats for voice acting in particular, but it's pretty well known that people with "ethnic", "Black", etc sounding names - that can affect whether or not they even get an interview, due to racial biases

The book Freakonomics went into this some, and if you google around, you'll find quite a lot of articles about this
Link me to those articles, please.
https://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/minorities-w ... interviews
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... rimination
https://www.raconteur.net/hr/ethnic-name-bias
https://www.nber.org/digest/sep03/w9873.html

and many many more can be found if you do a quick search
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