Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Adamant » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:02 pm

People that default hard to saying "African American" to the point they can't bring themselves to saying anything else always end up making themselves look like complete assclowns whenever they have to refer to a black person from some other country.

Just saying. Non-Americans do NOT like being called "African American". They probably won't be offended by it, but they're probably going to assume you're too dumb to be able to tie your own shoelaces, and that's not the best first impression you want to make.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:29 pm

Adamant wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:02 pm
People that default hard to saying "African American" to the point they can't bring themselves to saying anything else always end up making themselves look like complete assclowns whenever they have to refer to a black person from some other country.
I realize that now. However, in all fairness to the people who are accustomed to using that term--using my own experiences using that term, anyway--I think many of them are doing so out of what they believe to be a gesture of respect. That and perhaps fear of the unintended repercussions of being politically incorrect.

For the record, I'm not completely pro or anti political correctness. I think it has its place, because at a most basic level, it's a well-intentioned (albeit not necessarily successful) attempt to observe manners. However, when it's used too strongly, it can put people on edge because they're afraid of asking questions, leading them to go off of assumptions instead. Those assumptions may be right, but they can also be wrong too, and adhering to those assumptions rather than having an open dialogue about the issues can lead to far more tension and aggression than necessary. And hey, I understand that tension, too--talks like these, while necessarily for the sake of creating a peaceful society (and world, for that matter) are not always particularly comfortable to have. We need to have them anyway, though.

That's why I really liked this series of videos that I've been watching lately called, appropriately enough, "Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man," hosted by Emmanuel Acho and Matthew McConaughey. Some seriously educational and eye-opening stuff, and I highly recommend watching them!
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Metalwario64 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:11 pm

Adamant wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:02 pm
People that default hard to saying "African American" to the point they can't bring themselves to saying anything else always end up making themselves look like complete assclowns whenever they have to refer to a black person from some other country.

Just saying. Non-Americans do NOT like being called "African American". They probably won't be offended by it, but they're probably going to assume you're too dumb to be able to tie your own shoelaces, and that's not the best first impression you want to make.
When I was in middle school, I got in trouble for using the term "black". I was reprimanded by a teacher and told to "ALWAYS refer to them as 'African Americans'", or else I'd be in trouble.

I feel like there's a lot of stigma around using "black" or "colored", and "African American" seems to be the "nicest" term to use. I can see why people would accidentally use it when not applicable.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by ABED » Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:49 pm

That teacher is wrong and a jackass.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Locust » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:29 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:11 pm
I feel like there's a lot of stigma around using "black" or "colored", and "African American" seems to be the "nicest" term to use. I can see why people would accidentally use it when not applicable.
For coloured, there's a lot of rightful stigma since it's a deeply outdated term, and offensive in many places of the world.

I'd probably have to retrain myself from slapping someone if they looked me in the face and called me that.

But yeah like Abed said - your teacher is an idiot.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:42 pm

From here in Italy, it seems this whole shebang could be titled "How to start segregation in a professional field: an essay on how negros losing the possibility to play non-negro characters in media was the first step in losing everything else"

If anything, the real question should be: "USA have a quite racially diverse Actors population. Why such diversity isn't similarly represented in the sub-sect of Voice Acting?"

Most likely answer is "It's hard work, require talent hard to recognize, massive efforts in learning while pays less AND is less glamorous\prone to make you famous than normal acting, so non-"whites", being the biggest part of the low-income class, prefer\have to chose a different and more lucrative and\or less difficult career path."
This basically applies to any field that requires effort proportionally greater than the average while also lower-than-average salary proportionally to the effort, which includes most art-related fields


For comparison: here in Italy voice acting is basically a multiple-families-run side-business.
Unless you get some friends in the business, it's next to impossible to get a related job. And to be a voice actor you also need to have some talent and\or technique, usually they come easier by being born in an acting family.
So most of the business is in the hands of a few families.
Also the sector is extremely small, the pay is bad and you are looked down from "normal" actors, and in Italy most negro families are low-income class(side effect of being first-to-third generation immigrates, many irregulars, from shitplaces in Africa: if they were from the better places in Africa they would have ended up in Germany or France with better jobs) so the same issue applies.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm

For the most part, voice actors should just play the role they fit the most with.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:11 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 12:11 pm
Adamant wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:02 pm
People that default hard to saying "African American" to the point they can't bring themselves to saying anything else always end up making themselves look like complete assclowns whenever they have to refer to a black person from some other country.

Just saying. Non-Americans do NOT like being called "African American". They probably won't be offended by it, but they're probably going to assume you're too dumb to be able to tie your own shoelaces, and that's not the best first impression you want to make.
When I was in middle school, I got in trouble for using the term "black". I was reprimanded by a teacher and told to "ALWAYS refer to them as 'African Americans'", or else I'd be in trouble.

I feel like there's a lot of stigma around using "black" or "colored", and "African American" seems to be the "nicest" term to use. I can see why people would accidentally use it when not applicable.
"Black" is fine. "African American" is fine. "Colored" I find a bit weird, because white is just as much a "color" as black. You could arbitrarily call anyone colored.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm
For the most part, voice actors should just play the role they fit the most with.
This is how cisgender people wind up play trans characters, telling our stories and getting accolades--while presenting as their own gender--and being seen and associated with roles.

Your view on the subject has to be a bit more substantial than "it's all about THE ART, maaaaaaaan"
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Metalwario64 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:06 pm

Locust wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:29 pm
For coloured, there's a lot of rightful stigma since it's a deeply outdated term, and offensive in many places of the world.
Of course I agree, and I never use that term, but, after a search, I guess "person of color" is the term I was thinking of, even though to me it sounds way too close to "colored people". Apparently that is accepted? I hear it all the time and it just sounds so wrong. But what do I know as a white man who never socializes. :/
Last edited by Metalwario64 on Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:10 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:06 pm
Locust wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:29 pm
For coloured, there's a lot of rightful stigma since it's a deeply outdated term, and offensive in many places of the world.
Of course I agree, and I never use that term, but I still see even progressive people using that term, so it's a bit hard to tell what is and isn't accepted today. Well, after a search, I guess "person of color" is the term I was thinking of, even though to me it sounds way too close to "colored people".
'Person of Color' places the emphasis on the human aspect of the term. They are a person, first and foremost.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Metalwario64 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:11 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:10 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:06 pm
Locust wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:29 pm
For coloured, there's a lot of rightful stigma since it's a deeply outdated term, and offensive in many places of the world.
Of course I agree, and I never use that term, but I still see even progressive people using that term, so it's a bit hard to tell what is and isn't accepted today. Well, after a search, I guess "person of color" is the term I was thinking of, even though to me it sounds way too close to "colored people".
'Person of Color' places the emphasis on the human aspect of the term. They are a person, first and foremost.
I see. All this time I thought political commentators were being racially insensitive. :p
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:32 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:11 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:10 pm
Metalwario64 wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 7:06 pm

Of course I agree, and I never use that term, but I still see even progressive people using that term, so it's a bit hard to tell what is and isn't accepted today. Well, after a search, I guess "person of color" is the term I was thinking of, even though to me it sounds way too close to "colored people".
'Person of Color' places the emphasis on the human aspect of the term. They are a person, first and foremost.
I see. All this time I thought political commentators were being racially insensitive. :p
Well, I wouldn't trust most political commentators explicitly, either. Even among arguably lefty commentators I've learned that a certain critical eye is needed to keep them from drifting rightward.

Of course, calling a Black person a PoC instead of the more specific 'Black person' just screams of yuppie and bourgeoisie to me, so that's something to keep in mind, too.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JustAlex1997 » Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:39 pm

I don't like the inevitability of actors eventually having roles ripped from them because of their skin color. If the skin of the voices we hear have to match the characters on the screen, it should be done with new characters moving forward. Existing characters should only have their voices replaced if their respective actors are fine with it.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by ankokudaishogun » Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:46 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm
For the most part, voice actors should just play the role they fit the most with.
This is how cisgender people wind up play trans characters, telling our stories and getting accolades--while presenting as their own gender--and being seen and associated with roles.

Your view on the subject has to be a bit more substantial than "it's all about THE ART, maaaaaaaan"
Actors... faking being people they aren't? FOR MONEY? Tell me you are lying and there are not such horrible people in the world!

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:30 am

ankokudaishogun wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:46 am
JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm
For the most part, voice actors should just play the role they fit the most with.
This is how cisgender people wind up play trans characters, telling our stories and getting accolades--while presenting as their own gender--and being seen and associated with roles.

Your view on the subject has to be a bit more substantial than "it's all about THE ART, maaaaaaaan"
Actors... faking being people they aren't? FOR MONEY? Tell me you are lying and there are not such horrible people in the world!
Yeah, it's the sort of bullshit that leads to trans people not being taken seriously. Media representation is a continual feedback loop that harms the trans people who grow up consuming it and the cisgender people whom hold the systemic advantages over trans people. Cis people see trans characters continually played by cis people--rather than actual trans people who don't have to fake the transness of their performances--and it's going to breed the idea that trans people are pretend, not a full-time thing that exist. Chris Sarandon, John Lithgow, Cillian Murphy, Eddie Redmayne, Hillary Swank: all cis actors who won Academy Awards to trans roles. The audience sees them on screen pretend to be trans, get raped and then go up on the big stage in their usual gender expression to accept big awards and praise. Meanwhile, you have trans actors and actresses passed up for these roles for being too gorgeous, too much like their gender. Fuck if we let the mainstream audiences know that trans people can be attractive, too. Wouldn't want cishet men thinking they're faggots for being attracted to women with dicks!! This is to say nothing of how media portrays us as only being sex workers (sex work is legitimate work that should be legalized, by the way), serial killers, rape-victims or the butt of jokes. Hell, what about all the young trans people who grow up on horrible shit like in Ace Venture: Pet Detective, a movie that teaches people that the only appropriate response to kissing a trans woman is to vomit? That people need to disclose their genitals or else they're deceivers? Now, let's apply that other types of minorities and see how disgusting that sounds (it's really disgusting).

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Super Sonic » Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:46 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm
For the most part, voice actors should just play the role they fit the most with.
This is how cisgender people wind up play trans characters, telling our stories and getting accolades--while presenting as their own gender--and being seen and associated with roles.

Your view on the subject has to be a bit more substantial than "it's all about THE ART, maaaaaaaan"
To be honest, outside the late Maddie Blaustein, (for those not familiar, Meowth and Lt. Surge from "Pokemon" credited differently during the first season) don't know of any trans voice actors, from either side of the Pacific.

On other note, do recall Chris Sabat saying with around the time he was Garterbelt, there weren't a lot of black voice actors in the area. Were some good ones, but left Texas. Thought he did well there.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:07 pm

Super Sonic wrote:
Sun Jul 05, 2020 12:46 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:04 pm
Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:05 pm
For the most part, voice actors should just play the role they fit the most with.
This is how cisgender people wind up play trans characters, telling our stories and getting accolades--while presenting as their own gender--and being seen and associated with roles.

Your view on the subject has to be a bit more substantial than "it's all about THE ART, maaaaaaaan"
To be honest, outside the late Maddie Blaustein, (for those not familiar, Meowth and Lt. Surge from "Pokemon" credited differently during the first season) don't know of any trans voice actors, from either side of the Pacific.

On other note, do recall Chris Sabat saying with around the time he was Garterbelt, there weren't a lot of black voice actors in the area. Were some good ones, but left Texas. Thought he did well there.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by ABED » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:09 pm

A big reason non-LGBT actors get awards for playing LGBT characters is because there's a bias in Hollywood awards to give them to showier roles. You can substitute "Most" for "Best" and you have the biggest criterion for how performances are judged.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 05, 2020 1:15 pm

I can’t imagine that there would’ve been very many trans actors in places like New York or Texas back in the late 90s/2000s. Maddie Blaustein seems to have been the exception, and as far as I know, she was mostly cast as male characters.

Come to think of it, how common are trans anime characters anyway? I would assume that Japan probably wouldn’t be very sympathetic to the transgender community.

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