Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by eledoremassis02 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:00 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:38 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
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I don't argue that minority actors can't play, say, White actors. That's punching up if anything. I think it is concerning when you're casting Phil LaMarr as Samurai Jack, though, unless I'm missing something about the character and performer here.

I know as a trans person I would be upset if a cis person were to voice a trans character. Hell, the main character in Yuu Yuu Hakusho sexually assaults a trans woman (played by cis actress Mayama Ako) and misgenders her. Would that kind of bullshit be allowed if the character wasn't played by a cis person? What if we applied that question to other types of minorities?
It's absolutely a question we should be asking minorities, and we should listen to their answers. Some of their answers can be surprising, though. Personally, as a white guy, I'm not comfortable with the existence of a baseball team named the Redskins and figured that most Native Americans would find that horribly offensive...but by many accounts, most actual Native Americans don't care. I also thought the term "African American" was more respectful than "black," but I'm hearing more and more that "black" is preferable for numerous reasons (not the least of which is that not all black people identify as being African in origin).

In other words, it's a continued dialogue we should be having, rather than going off of assumptions of what they do and don't find offensive. If most don't find something offensive, that's also something we need to keep in mind. So, as someone who hasn't watched the show, I can't say whether Asians have found it offensive that a black man plays Samurai Jack--maybe they do, maybe they don't--but I'm more than willing to listen to them about that if they want to have the conversation, because listening and having a dialogue are probably the two most immediately appropriate things that white people can do at this point in our history.
It depends on the person, much like anything else. I can't read the article because of a paywall l (never seen that on WaPo before). My mom is half-indigenous and I grew up being told to not let anyone call me an "Indian". I don't like being called it and it's geographically wrong. There are those that don't mind it at all. I don't like "Native American" either cause it usually gets followed with the snarky comment "Arent we all Native Americans?" I'm also usually a bit suspicious about Indigenous issues in the media because 98% of the time no one cares about us, we're often forgotten in most debates unless it proves some point about someone else battle. Most of my Indigenous friends absolutely hate mascots using Indigenous names, slurs and stereotypes but I have seen other Indigenous people not care or embrace it and I know groups who got to successfully change names of lakes back to their pre-colonial names, to me 9/10 seems a little off.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:17 pm

that survey only covered 500 people total over every state + DC, which is literally 10 people per state, it's a super flawed "study" and really doesn't tell you anything. you could "prove" a bunch of stuff with a sample size that small.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:24 pm

Turns out there's more info on that poll here. Pretty disappointed in the Washington Post, as I normally consider them a pretty reliable source. In any event, not that I was using that term even after seeing that poll, but it nevertheless appears I was wrong to use that poll as an example. This is why it's important to have a dialogue so we can all continue learning.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:45 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:
Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:24 pm
Turns out there's more info on that poll here. Pretty disappointed in the Washington Post, as I normally consider them a pretty reliable source. In any event, not that I was using that term even after seeing that poll, but it nevertheless appears I was wrong to use that poll as an example. This is why it's important to have a dialogue so we can all continue learning.
Don't trust WaPo for anything. It's owned by the world's richest man so it's ultimately going to be staffed with some shady characters. You're better off digging through more independent sites/papers or academic journals, typically.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:50 pm

As a Black guy: please, say Black. If you ask any Black person, we'll all tell you the same thing; African American and "person of color" are fucking weird, awkward, and uncomfortable, especially since you obviously want to say Black but think you'll offend us by saying it for some reason.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:19 am

"People of color", "African-American", "Black" are all appropriate depending upon the context. It really just depends on what exactly you're talking about.

Listening and dialogue are both important, yes, but it's also important to try and figure things out on your own. As seen above, people are different and will give you different answers. That's why doing your own objective research is so critical. History and the social sciences provide a strong foundation in learning about race, ethnicity, and so on.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:44 am

Me thinks James is an expert on how to refer to Black people.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:49 am

I'm not so sure anyone can be presumed an "expert" in such matters. Even if so, different "experts" will offer different answers. You won't necessarily hear the same thing from everyone. You should never stop thinking and learning on your own.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Locust » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:07 am

"POC" is irritating to see when people are referring to one race though
POC is good for things like "POC experience racism" - cool fine, you're talking about a collective

If you're talking about a singular race - just say what you mean, there really is no need to say POC when you just mean Black, or Japanese, or whatever

That's really my 2 cents on that
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:54 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:49 am
I'm not so sure anyone can be presumed an "expert" in such matters. Even if so, different "experts" will offer different answers. You won't necessarily hear the same thing from everyone. You should never stop thinking and learning on your own.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I think the people who participate and are part of a culture are definitely experts on that lol.

You obviously won't hear the same answer from EVERYONE but when the majority of Black people from average folks to academics say Black whenever possible...yeah, you might want to listen to them. It's not like the n-word or anything. African American, white appropriate in probably the most technical contexts, is weird and unnecessary most of the time otherwise. Especially since again, it's primarily used by other races who for some reason think they'll offend Black people by saying Black.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World
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"If a girl is over 35 and not married, then she must be nuttier than squirrel shit." - Reverend Pastor Father Uncle Ruckus (no relation)

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:33 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:54 am
MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:49 am
I'm not so sure anyone can be presumed an "expert" in such matters. Even if so, different "experts" will offer different answers. You won't necessarily hear the same thing from everyone. You should never stop thinking and learning on your own.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I think the people who participate and are part of a culture are definitely experts on that lol.

But just because they are part of a culture does not mean that they are infallible.

jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:54 am
You obviously won't hear the same answer from EVERYONE but when the majority of Black people from average folks to academics say Black whenever possible...yeah, you might want to listen to them. It's not like the n-word or anything. African American, white appropriate in probably the most technical contexts, is weird and unnecessary most of the time otherwise. Especially since again, it's primarily used by other races who for some reason think they'll offend Black people by saying Black.

I disagree with this. "African-American" is appropriate in a variety of contexts, including history and politics. To say that it is primarily used to avoid offending people is somewhat misleading. Yes, there are many people who continue to do this, but "African-American" still has its place outside of casual/informal conversation.

Again, listening is important, but don't let others do your thinking for you. Ultimately, you have to make up your own mind.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:58 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:33 pm
jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:54 am
MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:49 am
I'm not so sure anyone can be presumed an "expert" in such matters. Even if so, different "experts" will offer different answers. You won't necessarily hear the same thing from everyone. You should never stop thinking and learning on your own.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here. I think the people who participate and are part of a culture are definitely experts on that lol.

But just because they are part of a culture does not mean that they are infallible.

jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:54 am
You obviously won't hear the same answer from EVERYONE but when the majority of Black people from average folks to academics say Black whenever possible...yeah, you might want to listen to them. It's not like the n-word or anything. African American, white appropriate in probably the most technical contexts, is weird and unnecessary most of the time otherwise. Especially since again, it's primarily used by other races who for some reason think they'll offend Black people by saying Black.

I disagree with this. "African-American" is appropriate in a variety of contexts, including history and politics. To say that it is primarily used to avoid offending people is somewhat misleading. Yes, there are many people who continue to do this, but "African-American" still has its place outside of casual/informal conversation.

Again, listening is important, but don't let others do your thinking for you. Ultimately, you have to make up your own mind.
...and like I said, it's fine in technical contexts. I don't even think it's inappropriate in any context, it's just really weird and unnecessary outside of the most technical academic contexts.

When 99% of black people will tell you don't waste your time saying African-American except when absolutely necessary...well, pretty open and shut case there.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World
"They say assholes grow on trees/But I'm just here to trim the leaves"
"If a girl is over 35 and not married, then she must be nuttier than squirrel shit." - Reverend Pastor Father Uncle Ruckus (no relation)

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:09 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:58 pm
MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:33 pm
Again, listening is important, but don't let others do your thinking for you. Ultimately, you have to make up your own mind.
When 99% of black people will tell you don't waste your time saying African-American except when absolutely necessary...well, pretty open and shut case there.
To add to what you're saying here with my own experiences with people of various minorities; usually, as long as you're making an effort to use the right terminology relating to whoever you're talking with (whether it's words for their race, or pronouns, or whatever else), they'll help you out if you make any kind of misstep. So, if you meet someone who would rather you say African-American in a particular context that you're talking in, usually they'll just ask you, and you make the change, and it's fine.

Just my two cents on this particular debate.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:52 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:58 pm
When 99% of black people will tell you don't waste your time saying African-American except when absolutely necessary...well, pretty open and shut case there.
That's if you could ever hit this elusive "99%" mark. Sure, if someone could realistically obtain a majority opinion on the matter, then go for it. But that don't seem too likely to me.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:42 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:52 pm
jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:58 pm
When 99% of black people will tell you don't waste your time saying African-American except when absolutely necessary...well, pretty open and shut case there.
That's if you could ever hit this elusive "99%" mark. Sure, if someone could realistically obtain a majority opinion on the matter, then go for it. But that don't seem too likely to me.
I mean look, if you want to be pedantic about it, then do you; but it's probably a probably a good idea to take the word of a black person with a lifetime of experience interacting with black people and knowing black history.

I don't have to go around asking every black person I know what they think of the issue - my everyday experience has more than informed me on that. Just listen. You don't need empirical evidence from something learned from human experience and subsequent anecdotes.

There is a high probability you'll get side eyed for saying "blacks" in plural, though.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World
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"If a girl is over 35 and not married, then she must be nuttier than squirrel shit." - Reverend Pastor Father Uncle Ruckus (no relation)

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:51 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:42 pm
I mean look, if you want to be pedantic about it, then do you; but it's probably a probably a good idea to take the word of a black person with a lifetime of experience interacting with black people and knowing black history.
With a grain of salt, maybe, because you're still just one person.

There is a high probability you'll get side eyed for saying "blacks" in plural, though.
This may be partly true, but it too is contextual.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:55 pm

MyVisionity wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:51 pm
jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:42 pm
I mean look, if you want to be pedantic about it, then do you; but it's probably a probably a good idea to take the word of a black person with a lifetime of experience interacting with black people and knowing black history.
With a grain of salt, maybe, because you're still just one person.

There is a high probability you'll get side eyed for saying "blacks" in plural, though.
This may be partly true, but it too is contextual.
I don't really know what to tell you but..like, maybe talk to more black people? Or, like listen? I don't get why you insist on whitesplaining a black people thing to a black person.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World
"They say assholes grow on trees/But I'm just here to trim the leaves"
"If a girl is over 35 and not married, then she must be nuttier than squirrel shit." - Reverend Pastor Father Uncle Ruckus (no relation)

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:04 pm

I get mansplained sometimes when I venture out into the greater internet. It always seems to come from cishet white guys. It's pretty disconcerting to be told your experiences don't count for anything. I definitely think there's a lack of empathy since, well, cishet white guys don't put up with paternalistic bullshit gaslighting.
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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:20 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 9:55 pm
I don't really know what to tell you but..like, maybe talk to more black people?
This is much more like it. The more and more people you talk with, the greater the understanding you will have.

Personal experiences count for a whole lot. It's also important to keep things in perspective.

I apologize for sounding condescending.
Last edited by MyVisionity on Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Minority representation for minority characters in Voice acting

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:22 pm

OOPS Posted in the wrong thread.
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