Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:06 pm

ABED wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:34 amHow does anything subsequently done with those characters retroactively make the movies more interesting?
You really love to keep going in cicles and asking people the same things, don't you? Alright, I'll keep copying and pasting the same answers, then:

Because movies themselves aren't remarkable. However, there is something interesting when you take and put them in another context.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:56 amGT and Online had some input from Toriyama, Super to some has that creators seal of approval, because unlike the other two it is marketed as such,
What "seal of approval"? If you mean "hey, this story is set here, and it follows this", then Dragon Ball Online also has it, from Toriyama himself.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:03 pm

Grimlock wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:06 pm
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:56 amGT and Online had some input from Toriyama, Super to some has that creators seal of approval, because unlike the other two it is marketed as such,
What "seal of approval"? If you mean "hey, this story is set here, and it follows this", then Dragon Ball Online also has it, from Toriyama himself.
The "seal of approval" that Toriyama allegedly wrote it, and therefore it's "more legitimate" than anything that isn't generally considered to have been written by him.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:40 pm

“I can’t enjoy this thing because it’s not considered part of the main timeline”’will never not be stupid so...

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:55 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:56 amDoes it really matter whether or not a story within the Dragon Ball world is written by Toriyama?
I know this isn't very popular, but I think his involvement with modern DB should've been a one time contribution with BOG. I know Toriyama isn't the only one to blame, but he's playing a major role in holding this franchise back, and he should've trusted it with someone new instead.
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:59 amAn unpublished series of fucking napkin notes that nobody except for the creators has ever seen somehow has more value than either the manga or anime, purely because Toriyama wrote it.
It shows how strong name recognition is, as if any other writer was doing this they'd get ripped apart by the same people defending Toriyama.
Robo4900 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:03 pmThe "seal of approval" that Toriyama allegedly wrote it, and therefore it's "more legitimate" than anything that isn't generally considered to have been written by him.
Never mind the fact Toriyama's writings are so little that he might as well not have written anything. There are fans who, for some reason, believe Toriyama is giving these detailed scripts to everyone to follow, going as far as saying Super is written no different than the original manga.

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by SSJgogeto » Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:09 pm

Yup, I still enjoy it. I don't see why not enjoy it, unless is something bad, of course.

I just don't consider these things in my headcanon, because "there's no canon in the franchise" or some bull like that.

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:25 pm

Grimlock wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:06 pm
ABED wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:34 amHow does anything subsequently done with those characters retroactively make the movies more interesting?
You really love to keep going in cicles and asking people the same things, don't you? Alright, I'll keep copying and pasting the same answers, then:

Because movies themselves aren't remarkable. However, there is something interesting when you take and put them in another context.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:56 amGT and Online had some input from Toriyama, Super to some has that creators seal of approval, because unlike the other two it is marketed as such,
What "seal of approval"? If you mean "hey, this story is set here, and it follows this", then Dragon Ball Online also has it, from Toriyama himself.
But why is movie 7 or 8 or whatever more interesting because now it's part of a multiverse? I get the new context itself might be interesting but why are the older movies now more interesting?
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:03 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 2:03 pmThe "seal of approval" that Toriyama allegedly wrote it, and therefore it's "more legitimate" than anything that isn't generally considered to have been written by him.
I have never even heard anything that Toriyama "wrote a seal of approval". But if it means "if Toriyama wrote it, then it's more legitimate", then it's kind of pointless when it comes to Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Online. We don't know what comes from him and what doesn't.
ABED wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:25 pmBut why is movie 7 or 8 or whatever more interesting because now it's part of a multiverse? I get the new context itself might be interesting but why are the older movies now more interesting?
Because it allows for the characters to react/interact with more than just what was provided in the "main continuity". Other situations, other scenarios, more development, and etc.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:37 pm

I get taking characters from boring movies in interesting situations would make them more interesting, but not the movies.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Grimlock » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:42 pm

Yeah, that's what I have been saying. Sorry for not being more clear/specific.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:57 pm

There already is a multiverse in the Dragon Ball world, and it’s been established that there are only 12 universes total, none of which includes stuff like the old movies or DBGT.

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by ABED » Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:12 pm

Grimlock wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:42 pm Yeah, that's what I have been saying. Sorry for not being more clear/specific.
Ahhhh, now I get it. No problem. Sorry if I came off like a dog with a bone.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:56 am

Grimlock wrote: Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:03 pm I have never even heard anything that Toriyama "wrote a seal of approval". But if it means "if Toriyama wrote it, then it's more legitimate", then it's kind of pointless when it comes to Dragon Ball Super and Dragon Ball Online. We don't know what comes from him and what doesn't.
It was a figure of speech, but Robo4900 nailed it in saying what I referred to is the perception amongst some fans created by how Super was originally marketed as a "brand new story from series creator Akira Toriyama". But yeah, such notions are utterly pointless because it doesn't matter how little effort Toriyama puts in as his name alone sells a series and whether or not he wrote anything substantial has no bearing on the quality of the final product.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Goten_jr » Fri Aug 14, 2020 3:14 pm

I don’t really care for Non canon stuff except GT (because it’s still the only Story after The Eoz)and some Movie fights here and there

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:23 pm

Of course. I enjoy GT and the old movies much more than all of DBS despite that being “canon”

I hate that the ‘canon police’ claims that something is good or bad just because Toriyama did or didn’t write it.

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Desassina » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:48 pm

I enjoy things kept in historical context.

Whenever I feel like having an 80s/90s trip down memory lane, I go through Dragon Ball/Z movies that I'm nostalgic about, and appreciate the production values that were once put into them, from drawings and animation to Kikuchi's soundtrack that I grew up with, but I never look back on them without today's knowledge, because that is very difficult or even impossible, given that they're already part of us and we are simply displaced in time.

What it can do is affect the new content, but that's why I always try to keep the manga close by, so that I know whose style the non-canon material is a derivative product of. And it's because there is a style from Toriyama that shows through his work and his contributions to studio productions that I feel that Dragon Ball can only go wrong without him. Still, I didn't know this back then, so the exercise is to filter out whatever it is that doesn't feel like his, and to get the franchise's entries in their purest form, regardless of the medium.

You can't do anything about having experienced Dragon Ball/Z once in your life, but you can get more exposure to the original, the authentic and the on-going style that Toriyama shows through his other works as well. That will shift the balance between what's in the past having more influence than what's coming in the way that you see him.

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by B e n » Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:58 pm

I will always happily take any DragonBall content.

With that being said, I'm a bit of a weird one. I only like DragonBall while Goku is an adult, adore everything about DragonBall Z, and I really do think DragonBall GT is an underappreciated gem. The Baby arc is a nice throwback to the Majin Vegeta arc in DragonBall Z, and it's really cool to not only see old characters like Garlic and Android 17 return, but to see a new transformation in Super Saiyan 4 - which I truly wish was given more time to not only develop but to be shown. Goku and Vegeta look badass in that form and we've been teased with a minuscule amount of how truly powerful a Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta is. I would really like more from GT.

As far as Super goes, it is definitely a lot more comedic than Z as that was very gritty in a lot of places. The earlier seasons/sagas come to mind, but also later moments such as Android 18 breaking Vegeta's arm, Cell 'feeding' on humans and seeing their bodies shrivel, Trunks coughing up blood when Cell shoots a Death Beam through his chest, Babidi making Spopovich explode, and similarly, Buu forcing himself down someone's throat to make them explode.

I personally don't enjoy Super as much. I enjoy the development of the DB Universe, but I don't understand the timeline. Is it pre or post GT? Has Vegeta skipped not only Super Saiyan 3 but perhaps Super Saiyan 4? Has that not happened yet, or is it just not acknowledged? A parallel universe? The Broly movie left me a little salty because of that. At face value, it's a nice little movie. Nothing to write home about and is probably on par with the likes of Super Android 13 - just a nice little expansion on a character or group of characters.

What irked me the most is that nobody knew who Broly was. He wasn't incubated as a newborn next to Goku who grew up to hate him, and Vegeta had no idea who Broly was - whereas in Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan, Vegeta is well aware of Broly, how brutally powerful he is, and for 90% of the movie, is shaking in his boots.

I will always adore the DB Universe no matter what and for different reasons, but to make a strange comparison, the new Call of Duty game. I adored Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare and Modern Warfare 2. The new Modern Warfare is a fantastic game, the online community is thriving like the old days, but the story leaves so many questions unanswered. Why is 'Gaz' suddenly black when he was white? Why are Captain Price and Griggs even in it when they're not supposed to be if the previous games are anything to go off? Why are there references to Imran Zakhaev when he was left in a dead, one-armed heap in 2007?

Strange comparison I know, but to get back on track - I'm kind of on the fence as far as the OP question goes. I don't entirely dislike non-canon content. It's refreshing and enjoyable for multiple reasons - but I have such a biased view on the DB Universe through continuous love and nostalgic passion of DragonBall Z that it's sometimes difficult and raises many questions to watch new things.

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by Planetnamek » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:09 pm

I do enjoy Dragonball Evolution for what it is, the fact that it's non-canon actually works in its favor as it could try some different things that the other series never did, I definitely like this less-perverted version of Roshi better then the one from the original Manga/Anime.
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by jamiljamtheman » Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:18 pm

B e n wrote: Fri Aug 14, 2020 5:58 pm
I personally don't enjoy Super as much. I enjoy the development of the DB Universe, but I don't understand the timeline. Is it pre or post GT? Has Vegeta skipped not only Super Saiyan 3 but perhaps Super Saiyan 4? Has that not happened yet, or is it just not acknowledged? A parallel universe? The Broly movie left me a little salty because of that.
I believe Super operates under the assumption that only the manga covering Dragon Ball and Z has happened. It takes place in between the Buu Arc and the time skip at the end of Dragon Ball Z, so well before GT. But it does not hold itself to needing GT to happen in its future—it already contradicts GT by de aging pilaf and de fusing kibito Kai. Super Saiyan 4 “hasn’t happened yet”, but I think because of GTs “non canon” status, it either won’t happen “canonically” at all or will happen differently.

It’s needlessly confusing, but DB->Z->Super is it’s own timeline, and it’s assumed the old movies and GT never happened/will happen. It also is the “canon” timeline because it is the most Toriyama led.

That said, on the topic of the topic question, I very much enjoy “non canon” content. I enjoy GT, the Z movies, and SDBH plenty. Don’t let something being not “canon” detract from your enjoyment of it! I kinda wish that modern DB had been constructed in a way that it still fit with GT in the timeline/picture. But alas.

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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Fri Aug 14, 2020 11:13 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:00 pm The Bardock special is non-canon, but it’s infinitely better than Minus.
Actually didn't Toriyama have Frieza make a remark about Goku resembling Bardock in the manga?
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Re: Do you still enjoy non-canon Dragon Ball content?

Post by UI Peter » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:16 am

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:00 pm The Bardock special is non-canon, but it’s infinitely better than Minus.
This

Also, whether or not something is canon has nothing to do with quality

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