What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

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What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by Psajdak » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:20 am

By that I mean that he starts to truly consider feelings of others, appreciate life, uses his wealth to help those who are helpless, protect the weak, and is able to ride Kinton...

How long are we gonna have to wait for that day?

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:24 am

0. He literally says at the end of the ToP that he intends to go back to his evil ways. At the end of Broly, he is seen ruthlessly invading an innocent world with his army. He also seeks to find Broly and use him as a weapon to get his revenge on Goku and Vegeta. You'll be waiting forever.

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:12 am

None, nor should there be. He may respect the likes of Goku and Vegeta as warriors constantly striving to better themselves, but it will always be a means to an end, he will see them as potential henchmen at best.

Also the trope of villains having a change of heart is overdone in Dragon Ball and it needs to be laid to rest.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by ABED » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:33 am

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:12 am None, nor should there be. He may respect the likes of Goku and Vegeta as warriors constantly striving to better themselves, but it will always be a means to an end, he will see them as potential henchmen at best.

Also the trope of villains having a change of heart is overdone in Dragon Ball and it needs to be laid to rest.
This. It's been done to death on small and large scales. I enjoy redemption stories as much as the next guy but after a while if a story keeps telling that same story, it hits a point of diminishing returns.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:54 am

ABED wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:33 amThis. It's been done to death on small and large scales. I enjoy redemption stories as much as the next guy but after a while if a story keeps telling that same story, it hits a point of diminishing returns.
I agree, we've already had plenty of characters reform, with probably more to come, so just leave Freeza be.

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:17 am

Nope that's not happening, and honestly i don't really see Freeza as a character that they would do that with as they had previously with Tenshinhan, Piccolo and Vegeta because in their cases they gradually changed and saw the error of their ways. As others have said, there's been plenty of these redemption stories already in the series and Freeza just doesn't strike me as a character who would have that kind of change. That said, they've toned him down to some extent in the recent movies and Super so he's not quite the sadistic pure evil being as in DBZ but still isn't anything you'd really call good in terms of his character.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:33 am

Super's Freeza might be softer than the monstrous psychopath he was in the original series, but he's never going to become outright good.

Because that's not Freeza. He is and always will be a one-note monster. And that's perfect for him.

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:24 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:24 am 0. He literally says at the end of the ToP that he intends to go back to his evil ways. At the end of Broly, he is seen ruthlessly invading an innocent world with his army. He also seeks to find Broly and use him as a weapon to get his revenge on Goku and Vegeta. You'll be waiting forever.
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Things change and I have no doubt that Freeza could be naturally developed into a less antagonistic character. I mean, Hell, it happens to Dragon Ball characters all the time.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:33 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:24 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:24 am 0. He literally says at the end of the ToP that he intends to go back to his evil ways. At the end of Broly, he is seen ruthlessly invading an innocent world with his army. He also seeks to find Broly and use him as a weapon to get his revenge on Goku and Vegeta. You'll be waiting forever.
"I'm never getting married!"

*Starts popping HRT*

"Gosh i wanna be a trophy wife..."

Things change and I have no doubt that Freeza could be naturally developed into a less antagonistic character. I mean, Hell, it happens to Dragon Ball characters all the time.
If that's what you want, then you should already be satisfied no? In Super Freeza was able to team up with the saiyans of U7 despite his obvious dislike for them. He also seems to be more lenient with his underlings.

He'll never become good however. You only become good if you want to. Freeza doesn't. He actually wants to return to his evil ways. If fighting side by side with the saiyans and having died twice already couldn't change that mindset, I doubt anything will.

Just as there are many reformed villains in Dragon Ball, there are also a lot of irredeemable villains. The latest villain Moro is one such example. Zamasu/Goku Black would be another one.

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by ABED » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:16 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:24 pm
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:24 am 0. He literally says at the end of the ToP that he intends to go back to his evil ways. At the end of Broly, he is seen ruthlessly invading an innocent world with his army. He also seeks to find Broly and use him as a weapon to get his revenge on Goku and Vegeta. You'll be waiting forever.
"I'm never getting married!"

*Starts popping HRT*

"Gosh i wanna be a trophy wife..."

Things change and I have no doubt that Freeza could be naturally developed into a less antagonistic character. I mean, Hell, it happens to Dragon Ball characters all the time.
HRT?

And yes, it happens ALL THE TIME. All the more reason to not do it again.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:42 pm

Probably never. Frieza is one of the few truly unrepentant villains of Dragon Ball. He is the absolute polar opposite of Goku. I think keeping it that way always makes it interesting when the two are forced to work together, better than making up some lame reason for him to suddenly give up his evil life. Yes he did help at the ToP but it was purely because he had the prospect of resurrection dangled above his head the whole time, therefore another chance to get his revenge against Goku and Vegeta.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:15 pm

ABED wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:16 pmHRT?
Hormone Replacement Therapy. In my case, I use the standard Spironolactone and Estradiol pills to feminize my body. There are apparently more effective medicines but my doctor right now won't let me switch over. Anyway, HRT--and just plain realizing I was bi--can overhaul those who take it. In my case it made me interested in romantic relationships. Before that I wasn't interested in dating anyone or getting married or having kids. Then, my brain started functioning on the right hormones (estrogen) and voila, crying myself to sleep twice a week because I can't get knocked up.

Anyway, shit changes, with or without hormones. :lol:
SupremeKai25 wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:33 pmIf that's what you want, then you should already be satisfied no? In Super Freeza was able to team up with the saiyans of U7 despite his obvious dislike for them. He also seems to be more lenient with his underlings.

He'll never become good however. You only become good if you want to. Freeza doesn't. He actually wants to return to his evil ways. If fighting side by side with the saiyans and having died twice already couldn't change that mindset, I doubt anything will.

Just as there are many reformed villains in Dragon Ball, there are also a lot of irredeemable villains. The latest villain Moro is one such example. Zamasu/Goku Black would be another one.
Yeah, I want more. I want more and different kind of interactions. I want to see Freeza coming to Bra's birthday parties with gifts, I want to see Vegeta comically running around barking at everyone to scram, I want to see Bra completely disarming Freeza by taking a liking to him and forcing Freeza to withdraw like a tsundere because he can't bring himself to cause trouble around her. I want to see any and every type of scenario someone can think of and feel excited to turn into a project. I wanna see battles of words, I want to see more scenes like the defeat of Jiren. I want to see Freeza monologue to his troops with his tone and goals changing over time.

I mean, shit, they did it was everyone else, why not do so a little differently with Freeza by making things more gradual or throwing in different types of scenarios besides "one big arc, then a timeskip and everyone's friends!"
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by Dragon Ball Gus » Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:50 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:08 pm

Freeza becoming a good guy would just be a terrible idea. He’s been widely recognized as a bad guy for the past 30 years.

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:11 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:08 pm Freeza becoming a good guy would just be a terrible idea. He’s been widely recognized as a bad guy for the past 30 years.
*31 years of Freeza being a good guy*

"Freeza being a bad guy again? No way!"
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by emperior » Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:45 pm

While I think Julie’s idea of Freeza being invited to Bra’s party sounds hilarious in a good way, I really don’t think that Toriyama will ever make Freeza good.

He will probably keep doing evil stuff, and sometimes will help out Goku and company. And maybe Bulma will invite him to Bra’s party to thank him for helping Goku and Vegeta, and Freeza will end up killing some guest (maybe a finally grown-up Trunks? Or a grown-up Goten still sporting the same hairstyle as Goku?) but spare Bra cause it’s her birthday. And then gift her a Planet fresh of genocide.
If they don’t want such a filler episode to get too dark they could have Whis there to rewind time and to kick Freeza back to his Planet.

But I am convinced that in Toriyama’s eyes Goku is always good and can’t change (and that’s why in-universe nobody ever doubted that Goku Black could be the real Goku, despite being his exact copy) and Freeza is always bad and can’t change (and that’s why he never repented in like 15+ years of Hell).

At best, like Goku may end up doing bad stuff unintentionally, Freeza too could end up doing good stuff unintentionally.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by pepd » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:06 pm

I too Don't see Toriyama making Freeza a good guy, also there is really no need to it, he can kept in line with the desire for no wanting to go to hell, fear of Beerus and Gokū/Vegeta(?), and maybe collaborate if is of his interest. all this while still being hostile to them and doing his emperor stuff.

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by ABED » Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:07 pm

Ah, thanks Julie.

Anyway, this is exact sort of thing that bugs me about perpetual franchises.
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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:02 pm

Hopefully zero.

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Re: What are the chances of Freeza becoming a genuinely good guy?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:03 pm

Freeza forming temporary alliances with the Dragon Team in order to defeat a greater threat is about as far as they should ever go in terms of making him a good guy. Him being invited to birthday parties would be going too far. We don’t need him to be the new Vegeta.

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