What would a reboot have to do in order to comply to today's standards?

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, again...the issue is that this is a kids' show and/or in a mainstream and non-erotic work.

[goku the krump dancer]

Indeed... However, Standards vary per culture. I'm aware Japan has since raised those standards but as timeless as Dragon Ball is, its also in many ways a product of its time.

The Shonen demographic is supposed to start around 12 and maybe end around 18 years of age. As far as I know 12 year old boys get pretty curious about the opposite sex. That's not to say that some of Roshi's jokes couldn't be toned down a little but Super antics aside, for the target demographic I don't think any of his scenes were that bad at all.

I mean. a lot stuff we used to watch as kids on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon had hella mature themes and innuendos though dummed down to be better understood (or not) by the kids who watch.

Murder is a mature theme and most would deem unsuitable for children yet seeing Cell be obliterated feels much more satisfying then having him be blasted into Space Jail to be put in time out for being a "Weally Weally bahd Mayn." (Funny enough, that's kinda what dying and going to hell is anyway lol). If that were the case though someone being "sent to the Next Dimension" shouldn't have bothered anyone since Dragon Ball is for Kids and kids should be shielded from death or at least the idea of it, when in real life its gonna happen around them regardless.

[Locust]

Murder is a mature theme and most would deem unsuitable for children yet seeing Cell be obliterated feels much more satisfying then having him be blasted into Space Jail to be put in time out for being a "Weally Weally bahd Mayn." (Funny enough, that's kinda what dying and going to hell is anyway lol). If that were the case though someone being "sent to the Next Dimension" shouldn't have bothered anyone since Dragon Ball is for Kids and kids should be shielded from death or at least the idea of it, when in real life its gonna happen around them regardless.

Death is a natural part of life, and not morally wrong. It's just a thing that happens

Sexual assault (ie, Roshi's gropings) are not a normal part of life and is incredibly morally wrong - it's doubly weird when it's coming from a "good guy"

The deaths in Dragon Ball aren't super gore-y - I actually have issues with too much violence being shown to young people, but it's not like there's guts being ripped out of people's bodies happening constantly in Dragon Ball, it's no Berserk

I don't see it as an equal comparison

[Planetnamek]

Anything can be played for laughs if done in a tasteful way.. and yes that includes unwanted sexual advances.. Murder is as bad as it can get in real world morality but I’m sure all of us here has laughed or chuckled at someone getting offed in piece of media at some point, be it Dragon Ball or other wise.

Shake from Aqua Teen has “died” several times within that series and each situation was freaking hilarious.

Johnny Cage is full of sexual one liners when he’s put up against the MK ladies and they’re all pretty damn funny, because they’re played light heartedly.

Meg constantly being abused by her family is not funny and never has been (imo) because most of it comes off pretty mean spirited.

Sometimes I found the Meg stuff funny depending on how it was done(like Peter randomly shooting her just for saying "hi Dad" because of how unexpected it was) but overall i'm glad that running gag got retired in later seasons.

Perhaps there is an anime that makes the whole "old man creeping on young girls" thing funny, but i've yet to see an example of it.

[JulieYBM]

You wouldn't show a minor a porno magazine, why would you show them all the sex -based content in Dragon Ball.

[goku the krump dancer]

Death is apart of the living experience but Murder as in a human/human-like individual taking the life of another is not. The amount of blood shown in a death scene doesnt soften the blow that someone just had their life taken. Tambourine broke Krillin's neck with a lite kick to the head but that didnt take away from the impact of the moment.

Humor at the end of the day will always be subjective, Roshi trying to peep on Bulma or Launch is no different from a 14 year old boy mustering up the gal to run into the girls bathroom. The thing that I feel like some folks are forgetting is that Roshi never gets away with any of his antics he's always punched, slapped or gagged out it somehow which is supposed to add to the humor. Roshi is a good guy but he's part of Toriyama's Dragon Ball which means like all the other main heroes he's "kinda weird", which the man himself has gone on record for saying.

I mean this is the same Roshi who'd bribe Bulma for a nip slip or boob squeeze but at the same time wont fight Ran Fan because she's a woman despite it being a unisex Martial Arts Tournament. No one's perfect.

Porn exist to help people become aroused and I have no interest in trying to get children sexually excited, Dragon Ball exist to entertain. If I show an 8 year old the "Bulma Flashing Roshi" episode there's a high chance he's gonna laugh because he saw a girls butt and the old man's nose bleed as he made a funny face at best, at worst he'd be confused because he didn't understand the scene. If I show an 8 year old a "Bukakke" scene there's a higher chance that he'd be grossed out at worst and confused at best.

[JulieYBM]

I, a woman, do not want to have children exposed to women being victimized by men, especially when played for laughs. This shit is offensive.

[Locust]

Death is apart of the living experience but Murder as in a human/human-like individual taking the life of another is not.

Framing matters - deaths either happen from villains or from heroes trying to save the Earth.
I would even say there is a positive spin you could put on it - it's not bad to fight for a just cause
There's really no positivity you can put on Roshi sexually assaulting people

Roshi trying to peep on Bulma or Launch is no different from a 14 year old boy mustering up the gal to run into the girls bathroom.

Which is also wrong

The thing that I feel like some folks are forgetting is that Roshi never gets away with any of his antics he's always punched, slapped or gagged out it somehow which is supposed to add to the humor.

Actually there's quite a number of times he completely gets away with it

If I show an 8 year old the "Bulma Flashing Roshi" episode there's a high chance he's gonna laugh because he saw a girls butt and the old man's nose bleed as he made a funny face at best, at worst he'd be confused because he didn't understand the scene.

When I was a little girl watching this show, Roshi's antics just reminded me of all the times adult men were inappropropriate with me sexually
Different strokes, though, I suppose

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, the way feminine-presenting people are treated by cis men is really scary. Some of the encounters I've had really haunted me for days for a while and in fact still do.

[fadeddreams5]

I wouldn't mind them toning it down. Super's depiction of Roshi's perversion was quite exaggerated.

I wouldn't want them canceling Master Roshi altogether though. Just no physical assaulting, and I'm good.

But sexual harassment of women is okay if it's just verbal or asking for physical? What?

I meant moreso him getting a boner / excited when he sees a hot girl. I'm indifferent over the character verbally flirting with a girl, as long as it's not a minor, though. In hindsight, as funny as I found Bulma accidentally revealing her va-jay-jay in that one Dragon Ball scene, she was only 16. Eek.

I'm already weary of any Dragon Ball (Z) reboot, given the quality of modern entries to the franchise, but if they radically change certain iconic characters to comply with modern cancel culture too.....

[JulieYBM]

This shit was wrong then and it's wrong now.

I mean, is it really lost on everyone that the one woman in the thread has to explain why rape jokes (especially of women) are not funny or appropriate for a children's franchise?

[pepd]

Death is apart of the living experience but Murder as in a human/human-like individual taking the life of another is not.

Framing matters - deaths either happen from villains or from heroes trying to save the Earth.
I would even say there is a positive spin you could put on it - it's not bad to fight for a just cause
There's really no positivity you can put on Roshi sexually assaulting people

Still doesn't justify murder
It could be said that he is beaten or rejected because of it - there are consequences for bad actions (Not saying this, just presenting an example and analogy)

I guess the main difference is that sexual harassment/assault is still not morally condemned by everyone, while murder is. In that sense, I guess it shouldn't be shown to audiences that susceptible such depictions, but it's not really a problem if the public know it's wrong -as most of us personally did when kids-

[Locust]

Still doesn't justify murder
It could be said that he is beaten or rejected because of it - there are consequences for bad actions (Not saying this, just presenting an example and analogy)

Nah I'd go ahead and say killing someone can be justified in cases of self defence, but to be frank - I'm not really here to debate on the morality of murder/murder in a kids show. I simply thought that bringing murder up as a counterpoint to sexual assault is not a great comparison, that's why I addressed it at all

I guess the main difference is that sexual harassment/assault is still not morally condemned by everyone, while murder is. In that sense, I guess it shouldn't be shown to audiences that susceptible such depictions, but it's not really a problem if the public know it's wrong -as most of us personally did when kids-

You're still showing sexual assault scenes to a kid
I don't think 8 year olds should have to witness some things. I don't think pre-teens and young teens should have to witness them either
Older teens - 18+, yeah, not as much of a problem
But a lot of Dragon Balls target demographic, particularly in the past was young

[pepd]

Still doesn't justify murder
It could be said that he is beaten or rejected because of it - there are consequences for bad actions (Not saying this, just presenting an example and analogy)

[...]I'm not really here to debate on the morality of murder/murder in a kids show. I simply thought that bringing murder up as a counterpoint to sexual assault is not a great comparison, that's why I addressed it at all

Ya I got your point, was just trying to point out that in principle is the same, and that the difference is the current state of such problematics. Shouldn't have separate the last paragraph, my bad.

[FPSSJ4_Goku]

I wouldn't mind them toning it down. Super's depiction of Roshi's perversion was quite exaggerated.

I wouldn't want them canceling Master Roshi altogether though. Just no physical assaulting, and I'm good.

But sexual harassment of women is okay if it's just verbal or asking for physical? What?

I meant moreso him getting a boner / excited when he sees a hot girl.

So basically Roshi busting a nut is what you mean.

[Ringworm128]

Anything can be played for laughs if done in a tasteful way.. and yes that includes unwanted sexual advances.. Murder is as bad as it can get in real world morality but I’m sure all of us here has laughed or chuckled at someone getting offed in piece of media at some point, be it Dragon Ball or other wise.

It's a show/manga geared at children though, that's the point.

Kids can handle mature themes and content to an extent unless they're like 4 years old; which isn't Dragon Ball's target age group. My generation grew up watching Homer Simpson strangle Bart and sneaking episodes of South Park and Family Guy, and we're all well adjusted. The Roshi stuff is just goofy slapstick; you're acting like it's graphic porn. Seriously, everyone in the fandom was most likely 8-14 when they first watched DB/Z and they weren't traumatized or grew up to be predators. Why is it this generation that suddenly needs protecting from a series kids have watched/read for nearly 40 years?

[MasenkoHA]

Roshi can still be a horndog without being a sexual predator...it’s not.....hard.

For fuck sake just let him look at dirty magazines, and listen to ambiguously erotic sex audiotapes, and watch suggestive jazzercise videos.

[MasenkoHA]

The Shonen demographic is supposed to start around 12 and maybe end around 18 years of age.

The exact opposite in fact. Shonen is young boy. The target audience is about 6-12 (first to sixth graders)

I mean. a lot stuff we used to watch as kids on Cartoon Network and Nickelodeon had hella mature themes and innuendos though dummed down to be better understood (or not) by the kids who watch.

I guarantee you nothing you watched on Cartoon Network or Nickelodeon involved someone trying to feel up a woman while she was unconscious or preoccupied.

It’s not that the content is “too mature” its that it makes light of sexual harassment and rape culture

Murder is a mature theme and most would deem unsuitable for children yet seeing Cell be obliterated feels much more satisfying then having him be blasted into Space Jail to be put in time out for being a "Weally Weally bahd Mayn." (Funny enough, that's kinda what dying and going to hell is anyway lol). If that were the case though someone being "sent to the Next Dimension" shouldn't have bothered anyone since Dragon Ball is for Kids and kids should be shielded from death or at least the idea of it, when in real life its gonna happen around them regardless.

Death is a fact of life. The fact that companies like Saban and 4Kids and whoever else thinks death can’t be acknowledged or stated in kids show is of course stupid.

But children know murder is wrong. They know death is a fact of life (at least by the time they’re like 5) this isn’t even remotely the same as Roshi trying to grope a woman without her consent or peep on her getting naked and the narrative treating it as “Oh that silly billy when will he learn lmaaao”

[Jord]

I, a woman, do not want to have children exposed to women being victimized by men, especially when played for laughs. This shit is offensive.

No. You find it offensive. If you don't like it, that's fine. Don't watch it then and don't let your children watch it.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

The exact opposite in fact. Shonen is young boy. The target audience is about 6-12 (first to sixth graders).

This range has the issue of leaving a weird gap between the shonen-seinen demography:

6 years --- 12 years : Shonen

13 years --- 17 years : ????

18 years and older : Seinen