The worst we could have gotten in the 90s

[Planetnamek]

Yeah i'm not really getting that myself, I swear the way some people talk about the old in-house dub cast you'd think they'd killed their pets or something! I can't help but find myself laughing every single time I find someone acting like that dub is like the 9/11 of English dubs or something like that .

Well, I’d say the old dub isn’t exactly good, and was in fact pretty terrible when it started out back in 1999. The actors were definitely amateurs at the time. That much can’t be argued. With that said, I also don’t think it can be argued that the ones who are still around have improved significantly compared to how they were 20 years ago.

I could understand why some people wouldn’t be crazy about the older voice actors, but if those actors are still readily available, it wouldn’t really make sense to just ditch every single one of them simply because not everyone is fond of their performances. From a purely practical perspective, keeping as many of the old actors as possible is more convenient and less time consuming. Plus, where would one even draw the line in terms of getting rid of the older actors? What’s the cutoff supposed to be? I mean, if you want to get technical, someone like Colleen Clinkenbeard was involved in Dragon Ball before Kai.

Yeah I can agree the actors didn't start out great, but many people criticizing them for their performances in season 3 failed to realize was that they did improve quite a bit later on.

[VegettoEX]

I think it's bizarre to call someone out by name and put words in their mouth, and then when they do actually defend themselves with their viewpoints (that, mind you, were never actually in question or offered or solicited in the first place), there's criticism that they're somehow parading around and dragging up old bygones long past their expiration date.

Dude, you literally asked for it. C'mon.

[Planetnamek]

Well I wasn't calling out so much as making a light-hearted joke and I don't think that in itself necessarily means I was "asking for it" but OK I won't that sort of thing anymore.

[Kunzait_83]

Plus, where would one even draw the line in terms of getting rid of the older actors? What’s the cutoff supposed to be?

In the words of Ellen Ripley:

"Nuke the entire site from orbit: it's the only way to be sure."

Scorched Earth the whole damn thing and start 1000% fresh from complete and utter wholecloth, with less than zero attachment whatsoever to any of the creative decisions or casting choices made with ANY of the old dubs up to this point. Up to (and this is perhaps most crucial of all) COMPLETELY rethinking the entire approach taken to voice direction (within the context of its whole history with English dubs at least) at the ground level for this series as a whole since day one.

I really cannot stress enough how crucial it is that the voice directors behind any English language dub for this type of series be fully aware and in agreement that what they're doing is translating and adapting into English a whimsically idiosyncratic (but at the same time still relatively dramatic and earnest) martial arts fantasy serial in the vein of classic Shaw Bros. and Golden Harvest-style Wuxia, and not a dumpy Saturday morning "action cartoon" (in the generic sense) and how that difference in basic thought process dramatically impacts what kinds of performances you're trying to get out of your actors: and indeed, what it is you're even looking for in the first place when casting them in their roles.

Or to pull another quote (this time from Bill Hicks):

"Start over, the experiment didn't work."

Yeah I can agree the actors didn't start out great, but many people criticizing them for their performances in season 3 failed to realize was that they did improve quite a bit later on.

With that said, I also don’t think it can be argued that the ones who are still around have improved significantly compared to how they were 20 years ago.

I'm in no way judging the old cast solely by their "Season 3" performances: I've heard them in everything from the Cell and Boo arcs of Z, to original DB, to GT, to most all of the various video games, to Kai, to Super, and the most recent movies (Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, etc).

This whole strawman about how "people who don't like the dub cast are only clinging onto old hate from Season 3" has long-since grown IMMENSELY fucking tired and played out at this point.

I'll put this as crystal clear as I possibly can so that there can be zero room for misinterpretation:

I'm NOT just talking about Season 3 from a hundred years ago. I am 1000% taking into account almost ALL of the recent material the old FUNi cast have done even just within the last few years or so.

I'll say this again loudly and clearly, for the cheap seats: I simply DO NOT AGREE with either of you (or anyone else who has made this argument throughout the years) that the "improvements" these actors have made in their performances are anything other than incredibly, almost laughably marginal, to the point of not mattering or impacting much of anything in their performances significantly or substantively.

They've altered tone and pitch, and in a few cases some basic approaches to these characters (no more Surfer Yamucha for example)... but at the end of the day, they're still utterly tone deaf and wholly incompetent at conveying anything that even somewhat approximates believable human emotions.

And I'm not even in any way gauging that on some absurd or wildly unrealistic Academy Award-worthy, Orson Welles-level metric: I mean even on just the level of a basic, no-name TV actor doing a normal acting gig. Most typical no-name, generic TV actors can easily blow most of these hapless dipshits out of the water and seem like the reincarnation of Brando by comparison.

In other words, the FUNi cast still sound to this day, more than 20 years in, like a bunch of idiots doing their best "overwrought cartoon character" caricature voices, and not like just regular actors doing a basic TV role. Yes, even now at this late date, more than 20 years after Season 3: that basic approach HAS NOT CHANGED almost one iota, be it in Super, Battle of Gods, the latest video games, or what have you.

That's on both the actors talent levels (or lack thereof in this case) and moreover, its also on the voice direction, which has always kept at least one foot solidly planted into the totally dumb and wrongheaded creative mindset going all the way back to the mid/late 90s with Saban and Ocean and whatnot: "we're doing doofy Saturday morning action cartoon aimed at idiot, shrieking children, no need to have any of these characters sound in any which way like real, relatable people."

And yes, obviously DB is in and of itself inherently silly and over the top: but that ignores the fact that despite that, the Japanese version has ALWAYS counterbalanced the inherent silliness of the series with performances and acting styles that nonetheless treat the roles straightforward and earnest.

A series this ridiculous and manically high energy in no way needs the "extra help" from the cast to just pile on further dumb goofiness with a trowel via their acting performances: at that point, it simply becomes overkill and makes the series unbearable to sit through. Instead, the more grounded style of performances of the Japanese cast evened things out and acted as a grounding counterweight against the inherent, abject ridiculousness of the series' baseline premise as an over the top demented kung fu fantasy serial.

In other words, the story ITSELF may be goofy and over the top silly, but the characters within the story react to it and behave generally in ways that are at least vaguely and noticeably grounded in believable human emotions and reactions: which helps invest the audience, as they have something tangible there to connect with and relate to, rather than just be offputtingly stupid and obnoxious all across the board.

Again: we simply do not agree that the "improvements" made with regards to the old FUNi cast's voices are in any which way significant enough to matter or dramatically improve the dub in any significant way. What you hear in these voices as "significant improvement" sounds much more to me like "polishing a turd".

[WittyUsername]

Plus, where would one even draw the line in terms of getting rid of the older actors? What’s the cutoff supposed to be?

In the words of Ellen Ripley:

"Nuke the entire site from orbit: it's the only way to be sure."

Scorched Earth the whole damn thing and start 1000% fresh from complete and utter wholecloth, with less than zero attachment whatsoever to any of the creative decisions or casting choices made with ANY of the old dubs up to this point. Up to (and this is perhaps most crucial of all) COMPLETELY rethinking the entire approach taken to voice direction (within the context of its whole history with English dubs at least) at the ground level for this series as a whole since day one.

I really cannot stress enough how crucial it is that the voice directors behind any English language dub for this type of series be fully aware and in agreement that what they're doing is translating and adapting into English a whimsically idiosyncratic (but at the same time still relatively dramatic and earnest) martial arts fantasy serial in the vein of classic Shaw Bros. and Golden Harvest-style Wuxia, and not a dumpy Saturday morning "action cartoon" (in the generic sense) and how that difference in basic thought process dramatically impacts what kinds of performances you're trying to get out of your actors: and indeed, what it is you're even looking for in the first place when casting them in their roles.

Or to pull another quote (this time from Bill Hicks):

"Start over, the experiment didn't work."

Yeah I can agree the actors didn't start out great, but many people criticizing them for their performances in season 3 failed to realize was that they did improve quite a bit later on.

With that said, I also don’t think it can be argued that the ones who are still around have improved significantly compared to how they were 20 years ago.

I'm in no way judging the old cast solely by their "Season 3" performances: I've heard them in everything from the Cell and Boo arcs of Z, to original DB, to GT, to most all of the various video games, to Kai, to Super, and the most recent movies (Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, etc).

This whole strawman about how "people who don't like the dub cast are only clinging onto old hate from Season 3" has long-since grown IMMENSELY fucking tired and played out at this point.

I'll put this as crystal clear as I possibly can so that there can be zero room for misinterpretation:

I'm NOT just talking about Season 3 from a hundred years ago. I am 1000% taking into account almost ALL of the recent material the old FUNi cast have done even just within the last few years or so.

I'll say this again loudly and clearly, for the cheap seats: I simply DO NOT AGREE with either of you (or anyone else who has made this argument throughout the years) that the "improvements" these actors have made in their performances are anything other than incredibly, almost laughably marginal, to the point of not mattering or impacting much of anything in their performances significantly or substantively.

They've altered tone and pitch, and in a few cases some basic approaches to these characters (no more Surfer Yamucha for example)... but at the end of the day, they're still utterly tone deaf and wholly incompetent at conveying anything that even somewhat approximates believable human emotions.

And I'm not even in any way gauging that on some absurd or wildly unrealistic Academy Award-worthy, Orson Welles-level metric: I mean even on just the level of a basic, no-name TV actor doing a normal acting gig. Most typical no-name, generic TV actors can easily blow most of these hapless dipshits out of the water and seem like the reincarnation of Brando by comparison.

In other words, the FUNi cast still sound to this day, more than 20 years in, like a bunch of idiots doing their best "overwrought cartoon character" caricature voices, and not like just regular actors doing a basic TV role. Yes, even now at this late date, more than 20 years after Season 3: that basic approach HAS NOT CHANGED almost one iota, be it in Super, Battle of Gods, the latest video games, or what have you.

That's on both the actors talent levels (or lack thereof in this case) and moreover, its also on the voice direction, which has always kept at least one foot solidly planted into the totally dumb and wrongheaded creative mindset going all the way back to the mid/late 90s with Saban and Ocean and whatnot: "we're doing doofy Saturday morning action cartoon aimed at idiot, shrieking children, no need to have any of these characters sound in any which way like real, relatable people."

And yes, obviously DB is in and of itself inherently silly and over the top: but that ignores the fact that despite that, the Japanese version has ALWAYS counterbalanced the inherent silliness of the series with performances and acting styles that nonetheless treat the roles straightforward and earnest.

A series this ridiculous and manically high energy in no way needs the "extra help" from the cast to just pile on further dumb goofiness with a trowel via their acting performances: at that point, it simply becomes overkill and makes the series unbearable to sit through. Instead, the more grounded style of performances of the Japanese cast evened things out and acted as a grounding counterweight against the inherent, abject ridiculousness of the series' baseline premise as an over the top demented kung fu fantasy serial.

In other words, the story ITSELF may be goofy and over the top silly, but the characters within the story react to it and behave generally in ways that are at least vaguely and noticeably grounded in believable human emotions and reactions: which helps invest the audience, as they have something tangible there to connect with and relate to, rather than just be offputtingly stupid and obnoxious all across the board.

Again: we simply do not agree that the "improvements" made with regards to the old FUNi cast's voices are in any which way significant enough to matter or dramatically improve the dub in any significant way. What you hear in these voices as "significant improvement" sounds much more to me like "polishing a turd".

I never suggested that you were judging them exclusively by their season 3 performances. I’m saying that demanding they all be recast is a pretty unrealistic expectation, and I’m not saying that because of nostalgia (that word is really overused here by the way). If the actors are still readily available, there’s not much of a reason to just get rid of every single one of them. Again, it’s simply a matter of convenience. If FUNimation were that concerned about pandering to nostalgia, we’d still have something resembling the Bruce Faulconer score, and Linda Young would still be Freeza.

Also, even if you believe that actors like Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat make actors from Power Rangers look like Marlon Brando, I’m not sure how the performances of the newer actors are really much better in comparison. Actors like Monica Rial and Colleen Clinkenbeard are about on the level of the typical FUNimation VA. I don’t see any real difference between them in terms of their ability to deliver emotion, and they don’t exactly sound anymore like “real people” either.

Basically, it sounds like your grievance should be with pretty much every actor who’s ever been associated with FUNimation, except maybe for Chris Ayres and a few other examples.

[Kunzait_83]

Also, even if you believe that actors like Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat make actors from Power Rangers look like Marlon Brando, I’m not sure how the performances of the newer actors are really much better in comparison. Actors like Monica Rial and Colleen Clinkenbeard are about on the level of the typical FUNimation VA. I don’t see any real difference between them in terms of their ability to deliver emotion, and they don’t exactly sound anymore like “real people” either.

Basically, it sounds like your grievance should be with pretty much every actor who’s ever been associated with FUNimation, except maybe for Chris Ayres and a few other examples.

In no way am I a fan of Rial or Clinkenbeard's performances. Rial's Bulma in particular stands out in my mind as being pretty damn bad, at least to the extent that I can recall her performances from things like BoG and RoF. I should've specified more when I talked about seeing some (key word, SOME) of the later actors post-Kai as being bigger improvements. That's on me for not getting that detailed or specific.

But regardless, I have zero attachment whatsoever to folks like Rial and Clinkenbeard, so there's no need to get so hung up on them. Again, I'm totally in favor of just ditching EVERY actor that's ever done these roles for FUNi in the past or present and just starting totally fresh, as if the series were never dubbed before.

[Planetnamek]

Plus, where would one even draw the line in terms of getting rid of the older actors? What’s the cutoff supposed to be?

In the words of Ellen Ripley:

"Nuke the entire site from orbit: it's the only way to be sure."

Scorched Earth the whole damn thing and start 1000% fresh from complete and utter wholecloth, with less than zero attachment whatsoever to any of the creative decisions or casting choices made with ANY of the old dubs up to this point. Up to (and this is perhaps most crucial of all) COMPLETELY rethinking the entire approach taken to voice direction (within the context of its whole history with English dubs at least) at the ground level for this series as a whole since day one.

I really cannot stress enough how crucial it is that the voice directors behind any English language dub for this type of series be fully aware and in agreement that what they're doing is translating and adapting into English a whimsically idiosyncratic (but at the same time still relatively dramatic and earnest) martial arts fantasy serial in the vein of classic Shaw Bros. and Golden Harvest-style Wuxia, and not a dumpy Saturday morning "action cartoon" (in the generic sense) and how that difference in basic thought process dramatically impacts what kinds of performances you're trying to get out of your actors: and indeed, what it is you're even looking for in the first place when casting them in their roles.

Or to pull another quote (this time from Bill Hicks):

"Start over, the experiment didn't work."

Yeah I can agree the actors didn't start out great, but many people criticizing them for their performances in season 3 failed to realize was that they did improve quite a bit later on.

With that said, I also don’t think it can be argued that the ones who are still around have improved significantly compared to how they were 20 years ago.

I'm in no way judging the old cast solely by their "Season 3" performances: I've heard them in everything from the Cell and Boo arcs of Z, to original DB, to GT, to most all of the various video games, to Kai, to Super, and the most recent movies (Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, etc).

This whole strawman about how "people who don't like the dub cast are only clinging onto old hate from Season 3" has long-since grown IMMENSELY fucking tired and played out at this point.

I'll put this as crystal clear as I possibly can so that there can be zero room for misinterpretation:

I'm NOT just talking about Season 3 from a hundred years ago. I am 1000% taking into account almost ALL of the recent material the old FUNi cast have done even just within the last few years or so.

I'll say this again loudly and clearly, for the cheap seats: I simply DO NOT AGREE with either of you (or anyone else who has made this argument throughout the years) that the "improvements" these actors have made in their performances are anything other than incredibly, almost laughably marginal, to the point of not mattering or impacting much of anything in their performances significantly or substantively.

They've altered tone and pitch, and in a few cases some basic approaches to these characters (no more Surfer Yamucha for example)... but at the end of the day, they're still utterly tone deaf and wholly incompetent at conveying anything that even somewhat approximates believable human emotions.

And I'm not even in any way gauging that on some absurd or wildly unrealistic Academy Award-worthy, Orson Welles-level metric: I mean even on just the level of a basic, no-name TV actor doing a normal acting gig. Most typical no-name, generic TV actors can easily blow most of these hapless dipshits out of the water and seem like the reincarnation of Brando by comparison.

In other words, the FUNi cast still sound to this day, more than 20 years in, like a bunch of idiots doing their best "overwrought cartoon character" caricature voices, and not like just regular actors doing a basic TV role. Yes, even now at this late date, more than 20 years after Season 3: that basic approach HAS NOT CHANGED almost one iota, be it in Super, Battle of Gods, the latest video games, or what have you.

That's on both the actors talent levels (or lack thereof in this case) and moreover, its also on the voice direction, which has always kept at least one foot solidly planted into the totally dumb and wrongheaded creative mindset going all the way back to the mid/late 90s with Saban and Ocean and whatnot: "we're doing doofy Saturday morning action cartoon aimed at idiot, shrieking children, no need to have any of these characters sound in any which way like real, relatable people."

And yes, obviously DB is in and of itself inherently silly and over the top: but that ignores the fact that despite that, the Japanese version has ALWAYS counterbalanced the inherent silliness of the series with performances and acting styles that nonetheless treat the roles straightforward and earnest.

A series this ridiculous and manically high energy in no way needs the "extra help" from the cast to just pile on further dumb goofiness with a trowel via their acting performances: at that point, it simply becomes overkill and makes the series unbearable to sit through. Instead, the more grounded style of performances of the Japanese cast evened things out and acted as a grounding counterweight against the inherent, abject ridiculousness of the series' baseline premise as an over the top demented kung fu fantasy serial.

In other words, the story ITSELF may be goofy and over the top silly, but the characters within the story react to it and behave generally in ways that are at least vaguely and noticeably grounded in believable human emotions and reactions: which helps invest the audience, as they have something tangible there to connect with and relate to, rather than just be offputtingly stupid and obnoxious all across the board.

Again: we simply do not agree that the "improvements" made with regards to the old FUNi cast's voices are in any which way significant enough to matter or dramatically improve the dub in any significant way. What you hear in these voices as "significant improvement" sounds much more to me like "polishing a turd".

I never once claimed that was true for everyone that didn't like the dub. But part of me can't help but find it a little amusing when some people act like the Funi dub is like the worst thing to ever happen in dubbing history when in reality it's far from it.

Fair enough if you disagree on how much they improved, however I definitely think calling them "hapless dipshits" is way too extreme of a line of thinking, i'll definitely keep pushing back against that notion no matter what you or anyone else says.

So you did see the whole dub? I'm honestly surprised and kind of impressed that someone that hates the dub as much as you would even bother to watch the whole thing. I certainly could never do that with shows I personally hate like South Park.

I will say I do wish Kai had started over with a new cast, then it would feel less pointless as a whole.

[Adamant]

But part of me can't help but find it a little amusing when some people act like the Funi dub is like the worst thing to ever happen in dubbing history when in reality it's far from it.

Considering it's literally impossible to try discussing Dragonball in English ANYWHERE EVER without a bunch of people storming in to make Funiball and it's associated garbage part of the conversation and act as if you need to treat whatever horrendous rewrites they're dredging up as "just as valid a part of the franchise as the actual series is", I'm having a very hard time thinking of a single dub of ANYTHING that did more damage than Funiball did.

[Planetnamek]

But part of me can't help but find it a little amusing when some people act like the Funi dub is like the worst thing to ever happen in dubbing history when in reality it's far from it.

Considering it's literally impossible to try discussing Dragonball in English ANYWHERE EVER without a bunch of people storming in to make Funiball and it's associated garbage part of the conversation and act as if you need to treat whatever horrendous rewrites they're dredging up as "just as valid a part of the franchise as the actual series is", I'm having a very hard time thinking of a single dub of ANYTHING that did more damage than Funiball did.

Well i'm going to argue that it is, I don't see how it did any real damage to anything as it's not like anybody is holding a gun to your head to force you to only talk about the dub, nobody is preventing anyone from discussing the original. It is part of the conversation whether you like it or not

I will never cease to be baffled by how people treat this matter as if it's some sort of life-or-death struggle against the EEEEEEEEEVIL Funimation

[WittyUsername]

Also, even if you believe that actors like Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat make actors from Power Rangers look like Marlon Brando, I’m not sure how the performances of the newer actors are really much better in comparison. Actors like Monica Rial and Colleen Clinkenbeard are about on the level of the typical FUNimation VA. I don’t see any real difference between them in terms of their ability to deliver emotion, and they don’t exactly sound anymore like “real people” either.

Basically, it sounds like your grievance should be with pretty much every actor who’s ever been associated with FUNimation, except maybe for Chris Ayres and a few other examples.

In no way am I a fan of Rial or Clinkenbeard's performances. Rial's Bulma in particular stands out in my mind as being pretty damn bad, at least to the extent that I can recall her performances from things like BoG and RoF. I should've specified more when I talked about seeing some (key word, SOME) of the later actors post-Kai as being bigger improvements. That's on me for not getting that detailed or specific.

But regardless, I have zero attachment whatsoever to folks like Rial and Clinkenbeard, so there's no need to get so hung up on them. Again, I'm totally in favor of just ditching EVERY actor that's ever done these roles for FUNi in the past or present and just starting totally fresh, as if the series were never dubbed before.

In that case, the only way you’d ever get your wish if if FUNimation not only lost the license to Dragon Ball, but if we had some actual Hollywood actors voicing these characters, rather than a bunch of non-Union anime voice actors. You’re not going to get performances that live up to the standards you seem to want with pretty much any anime voice actor that I’m aware of.

[Planetnamek]

Also, even if you believe that actors like Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat make actors from Power Rangers look like Marlon Brando, I’m not sure how the performances of the newer actors are really much better in comparison. Actors like Monica Rial and Colleen Clinkenbeard are about on the level of the typical FUNimation VA. I don’t see any real difference between them in terms of their ability to deliver emotion, and they don’t exactly sound anymore like “real people” either.

Basically, it sounds like your grievance should be with pretty much every actor who’s ever been associated with FUNimation, except maybe for Chris Ayres and a few other examples.

In no way am I a fan of Rial or Clinkenbeard's performances. Rial's Bulma in particular stands out in my mind as being pretty damn bad, at least to the extent that I can recall her performances from things like BoG and RoF. I should've specified more when I talked about seeing some (key word, SOME) of the later actors post-Kai as being bigger improvements. That's on me for not getting that detailed or specific.

But regardless, I have zero attachment whatsoever to folks like Rial and Clinkenbeard, so there's no need to get so hung up on them. Again, I'm totally in favor of just ditching EVERY actor that's ever done these roles for FUNi in the past or present and just starting totally fresh, as if the series were never dubbed before.

In that case, the only way you’d ever get your wish if if FUNimation not only lost the license to Dragon Ball, but if we had some actual Hollywood actors voicing these characters, rather than a bunch of non-Union anime voice actors. You’re not going to get performances that live up to the standards you seem to want with pretty much any anime voice actor that I’m aware of.

I'd be interested to see big-name celebrities do voice-acting for DBZ, but there would be backlash to that as well, as i've already seen a lot of resistance towards celebrities doing voice-acting for video games(I.E. Kiefer Sutherland replacing David Hayter as Solid Snake in MGS5)

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Also, even if you believe that actors like Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat make actors from Power Rangers look like Marlon Brando, I’m not sure how the performances of the newer actors are really much better in comparison. Actors like Monica Rial and Colleen Clinkenbeard are about on the level of the typical FUNimation VA. I don’t see any real difference between them in terms of their ability to deliver emotion, and they don’t exactly sound anymore like “real people” either.

Basically, it sounds like your grievance should be with pretty much every actor who’s ever been associated with FUNimation, except maybe for Chris Ayres and a few other examples.

In no way am I a fan of Rial or Clinkenbeard's performances. Rial's Bulma in particular stands out in my mind as being pretty damn bad, at least to the extent that I can recall her performances from things like BoG and RoF. I should've specified more when I talked about seeing some (key word, SOME) of the later actors post-Kai as being bigger improvements. That's on me for not getting that detailed or specific.

But regardless, I have zero attachment whatsoever to folks like Rial and Clinkenbeard, so there's no need to get so hung up on them. Again, I'm totally in favor of just ditching EVERY actor that's ever done these roles for FUNi in the past or present and just starting totally fresh, as if the series were never dubbed before.

In that case, the only way you’d ever get your wish if if FUNimation not only lost the license to Dragon Ball, but if we had some actual Hollywood actors voicing these characters, rather than a bunch of non-Union anime voice actors. You’re not going to get performances that live up to the standards you seem to want with pretty much any anime voice actor that I’m aware of.

Not to mention that FUNi has pretty much exclusively held the license to the franchise here since Gen Fukunaga first acquired it way back in 1994 and the company was founded soon after. I just don't see them really losing it at this point to someone else, nor do i see there being the kind of top to bottom full on recasting and complete reset mentioned above. It's just not going to happen in the immediate future if that.

[Adamant]

But part of me can't help but find it a little amusing when some people act like the Funi dub is like the worst thing to ever happen in dubbing history when in reality it's far from it.

Considering it's literally impossible to try discussing Dragonball in English ANYWHERE EVER without a bunch of people storming in to make Funiball and it's associated garbage part of the conversation and act as if you need to treat whatever horrendous rewrites they're dredging up as "just as valid a part of the franchise as the actual series is", I'm having a very hard time thinking of a single dub of ANYTHING that did more damage than Funiball did.

Well i'm going to argue that it is, I don't see how it did any real damage to anything as it's not like anybody is holding a gun to your head to force you to only talk about the dub, nobody is preventing anyone from discussing the original. It is part of the conversation whether you like it or not

I will never cease to be baffled by how people treat this matter as if it's some sort of life-or-death struggle against the EEEEEEEEEVIL Funimation

Fans of Dragonball would like to be able to talk about Dragonball without an army of people hijacking the conversation with "I have never touched Dragonball, but I've watched this shitty rewrite of it and I'm now going to make that part of your conversation." Yes, people can, and do, ignore you, but they'd have been much happier had your shitty rewrite never existed in the first place so your hijacking would never have had a chance to exist. THAT is how Funiball caused damage way more so than anything else I can think of.

And I REALLY don't think going "well I'm going to keep doing it whether you like it or not, smug smiley" is the best way to argue that said damage didn't take place.

[WittyUsername]

In no way am I a fan of Rial or Clinkenbeard's performances. Rial's Bulma in particular stands out in my mind as being pretty damn bad, at least to the extent that I can recall her performances from things like BoG and RoF. I should've specified more when I talked about seeing some (key word, SOME) of the later actors post-Kai as being bigger improvements. That's on me for not getting that detailed or specific.

But regardless, I have zero attachment whatsoever to folks like Rial and Clinkenbeard, so there's no need to get so hung up on them. Again, I'm totally in favor of just ditching EVERY actor that's ever done these roles for FUNi in the past or present and just starting totally fresh, as if the series were never dubbed before.

In that case, the only way you’d ever get your wish if if FUNimation not only lost the license to Dragon Ball, but if we had some actual Hollywood actors voicing these characters, rather than a bunch of non-Union anime voice actors. You’re not going to get performances that live up to the standards you seem to want with pretty much any anime voice actor that I’m aware of.

I'd be interested to see big-name celebrities do voice-acting for DBZ, but there would be backlash to that as well, as i've already seen a lot of resistance towards celebrities doing voice-acting for video games(I.E. Kiefer Sutherland replacing David Hayter as Solid Snake in MGS5)

The closest thing we have to a big name celebrity in Dragon Ball is James Marsters, and I’d imagine they wouldn’t have even been able to get him if he hadn’t been a fan who felt he had something to prove.

Willem Dafoe as Beerus would’ve been pretty awesome, though.

[Kunzait_83]

But part of me can't help but find it a little amusing when some people act like the Funi dub is like the worst thing to ever happen in dubbing history when in reality it's far from it.

When did I ever once make that claim? Where did I ever once indicate that FUNimation's DB is in any which way "the single worst example in history of anime dubbing?" This is such a weird, weird thing to assume.

Do I think the FUNi DB dub is terrible? Obviously yes. Do I think that its somehow some sort of ungodly crime against humanity? Of fucking COURSE not. This is all ultimately just a children's kung fu fantasy cartoon, and all of this is incredibly relative and within its own context. That should frankly go without saying.

My providing detailed thoughts along with a total lack of artistic/creative respect for a given work does not in ANY which way inherently or automatically equal some kind of an obsessive, all-consuming manic hatred, or some such overwrought emotional overreaction. In this case, it just means that A) I'm thorough, and B) I don't have an ounce of respect or affinity for anything this dub has ever done to this particular series. No more, no less.

I've been into anime fairly heavily now since the tail-most end of the 1980s: the kinds of hatchet job dubs I've been witness to at this point throughout much of those years are legion - some of them to anime that I strongly find to be of SIGNIFICANTLY greater artistic value in than I ever would Dragon Ball, while other dubs that are indeed worse than FUNi's have luckily befallen anime titles that I think are hardly much of a great loss to anyone even in their original Japanese (DB I would say is obviously somewhere in the middle of those two extremes) - and while FUNimation's dub is certainly AMONG the worst I can name, it by no means tops that list remotely.

Fair enough if you disagree on how much they improved, however I definitely think calling them "hapless dipshits" is way too extreme of a line of thinking, i'll definitely keep pushing back against that notion no matter what you or anyone else says.

The "hapless dipshits" bit was exclusively referring to their incompetence at acting, not at them as human beings. But fair point, it was still probably not a good way for me to have phrased it.

So you did see the whole dub? I'm honestly surprised and kind of impressed that someone that hates the dub as much as you would even bother to watch the whole thing. I certainly could never do that with shows I personally hate like South Park.

I haven't seen every single solitary episode of the dub. I HAVE seen a decent sized sampling of the dubs for each series/incarnation of Dragon Ball though: a portion of original DB, a portion of Z, a portion of GT, some of the movies, bits of Kai and Super, and a TON from the video games especially. My having seen a broad spectrum of the dub across the years doesn't therefore mean that I've seen every last nanosecond of footage that was ever dubbed into English. I have not, nor do I have the slightest intention to.

And also I find it interesting that you somehow assume that 100% all of what I've seen of it I've somehow intentionally sought out or wanted to see. Fact is, because the dub is so ubiquitous across all of Western DB fandom, just by sheer virtue of my BEING active in the DB fandom means that the dub is going to get played in my presence at varying points, whether I like it or not.

Like Adamant rightly pointed out: when you participate heavily enough in this fanbase, the dub is GOING to get foisted upon you no matter what. You really CAN'T just simply avoid it 100% of the time at all times, unless you opt to just enjoy DB completely alone by yourself in total isolation away from ANY corner of the fan community whatsoever: and tempting though that prospect has been at times, I'm ultimately too much of a social person to go the hermetic route with this shit. I may be an anime nerd, but I'm about as polar diametric opposite of the Hikikomori-type as it gets.

And given that I've now been heavily active in the DB fandom since roughly 1992 or so... yeah, after enough decades where the dub has grown to be this all encompassing, its only a matter of time before a decent sized sampling of it is going to get played for me.

There's a saying that's to the effect of "The hardest thing in the world for people to escape from is their own perspective". And because most fans (broadly speaking) tend to have the perspective of being anywhere from enthusiastically devoted to at least middlingly meh on the dub - those who REALLY hate it I would say are ultimately still a minority when all's said and done - most people don't really ever spend any time putting themselves in the shoes of someone who loves DB itself, who wants to be active in the fan community, but really does not like the dub at all. Thus, people in this community don't really tend to think very much about how INCREDIBLY difficult it is - even just purely, dispassionately logistically - to avoid the dub completely when trying to engage within the wider fandom.

I would in NO way willingly subject myself to THIS much of ANYTHING that I dislike this much, unless I frankly didn't have much choice. And the dynamics of Western DB fandom for the bulk of the last 20 years or so have made it so that either I have to sometimes occasionally get exposed to the dub (which adds up quite a bit over time: and I'm quickly sidling up to being a 30 years long vet at this point, so do the math) or I just flat out give up DB entirely: or at least give up talking to anyone, anywhere about it or having any sort of participation in a broader fan community of any sort. And I may dislike the dub, but I've done my level best to not allow it to TOTALLY ruin or hamper my genuine love for DB, which long predates said dub's existence.

I would think that folks here might find my staunchly refusing at any point to allow a stain like the dub to ruin DB for me across such a sustained length of time to be a good/positive thing in and of itself... but at the end of the day, I've found more and more that most people just want others to mindlessly parrot back at them their own already-held opinions and to never actually be challenged in any way with a differing perspective.

[Planetnamek]

But part of me can't help but find it a little amusing when some people act like the Funi dub is like the worst thing to ever happen in dubbing history when in reality it's far from it.

When did I ever once make that claim? Where did I ever once indicate that FUNimation's DB is in any which way "the single worst example in history of anime dubbing?" This is such a weird, weird thing to assume.

Do I think the FUNi DB dub is terrible? Obviously yes. Do I think that its somehow some sort of ungodly crime against humanity? Of fucking COURSE not. This is all ultimately just a children's kung fu fantasy cartoon, and all of this is incredibly relative and within its own context. That should frankly go without saying.

My providing detailed thoughts along with a total lack of artistic/creative respect for a given work does not in ANY which way inherently or automatically equal some kind of an obsessive, all-consuming manic hatred, or some such overwrought emotional overreaction. In this case, it just means that A) I'm thorough, and B) I don't have an ounce of respect or affinity for anything this dub has ever done to this particular series. No more, no less.

I've been into anime fairly heavily now since the tail-most end of the 1980s: the kinds of hatchet job dubs I've been witness to at this point throughout much of those years are legion - some of them to anime that I strongly find to be of SIGNIFICANTLY greater artistic value in than I ever would Dragon Ball, while other dubs that are indeed worse than FUNi's have luckily befallen anime titles that I think are hardly much of a great loss to anyone even in their original Japanese (DB I would say is obviously somewhere in the middle of those two extremes) - and while FUNimation's dub is certainly AMONG the worst I can name, it by no means tops that list remotely.

Fair enough if you disagree on how much they improved, however I definitely think calling them "hapless dipshits" is way too extreme of a line of thinking, i'll definitely keep pushing back against that notion no matter what you or anyone else says.

The "hapless dipshits" bit was exclusively referring to their incompetence at acting, not at them as human beings. But fair point, it was still probably not a good way for me to have phrased it.

So you did see the whole dub? I'm honestly surprised and kind of impressed that someone that hates the dub as much as you would even bother to watch the whole thing. I certainly could never do that with shows I personally hate like South Park.

I haven't seen every single solitary episode of the dub. I HAVE seen a decent sized sampling of the dubs for each series/incarnation of Dragon Ball though: a portion of original DB, a portion of Z, a portion of GT, some of the movies, bits of Kai and Super, and a TON from the video games especially. My having seen a broad spectrum of the dub across the years doesn't therefore mean that I've seen every last nanosecond of footage that was ever dubbed into English. I have not, nor do I have the slightest intention to.

And also I find it interesting that you somehow assume that 100% all of what I've seen of it I've somehow intentionally sought out or wanted to see. Fact is, because the dub is so ubiquitous across all of Western DB fandom, just by sheer virtue of my BEING active in the DB fandom means that the dub is going to get played in my presence at varying points, whether I like it or not.

Like Adamant rightly pointed out: when you participate heavily enough in this fanbase, the dub is GOING to get foisted upon you no matter what. You really CAN'T just simply avoid it 100% of the time at all times, unless you opt to just enjoy DB completely alone by yourself in total isolation away from ANY corner of the fan community whatsoever: and tempting though that prospect has been at times, I'm ultimately too much of a social person to go the hermetic route with this shit. I may be an anime nerd, but I'm about as polar diametric opposite of the Hikikomori-type as it gets.

And given that I've now been heavily active in the DB fandom since roughly 1992 or so... yeah, after enough decades where the dub has grown to be this all encompassing, its only a matter of time before a decent sized sampling of it is going to get played for me.

There's a saying that's to the effect of "The hardest thing in the world for people to escape from is their own perspective". And because most fans (broadly speaking) tend to have the perspective of being anywhere from enthusiastically devoted to at least middlingly meh on the dub - those who REALLY hate it I would say are ultimately still a minority when all's said and done - most people don't really ever spend any time putting themselves in the shoes of someone who loves DB itself, who wants to be active in the fan community, but really does not like the dub at all. Thus, people in this community don't really tend to think very much about how INCREDIBLY difficult it is - even just purely, dispassionately logistically - to avoid the dub completely when trying to engage within the wider fandom.

I would in NO way willingly subject myself to THIS much of ANYTHING that I dislike this much, unless I frankly didn't have much choice. And the dynamics of Western DB fandom for the bulk of the last 20 years or so have made it so that either I have to sometimes occasionally get exposed to the dub (which adds up quite a bit over time: and I'm quickly sidling up to being a 30 years long vet at this point, so do the math) or I just flat out give up DB entirely: or at least give up talking to anyone, anywhere about it or having any sort of participation in a broader fan community of any sort. And I may dislike the dub, but I've done my level best to not allow it to TOTALLY ruin or hamper my genuine love for DB, which long predates said dub's existence.

I would think that folks here might find my staunchly refusing at any point to allow a stain like the dub to ruin DB for me across such a sustained length of time to be a good/positive thing in and of itself... but at the end of the day, I've found more and more that most people just want others to mindlessly parrot back at them their own already-held opinions and to never actually be challenged in any way with a differing perspective.

I never claimed you did, I was just talking in general that's all, I have seen people online pretty much say exactly that.

I am curious though as to which dubs you think are the absolute worst? My money is on the Sodexo One-Piece dub(Which came before the infamous 4Kids dub).

How many episodes of the dub and which movies have you seen just out of curiosity?

I don't want people to just parrot back my own opinions, but at the same time I also don't want to hear baseless claims about how people like me only like the dub because of "rose-tinted glasses" or whatever(and just to be absolutely clear so there is zero misunderstanding here, i'm NOT specifically talking about YOU in this instance, i'm just making a general statement on the overall attitude i've seen on certain DB fansites over the years) as if there's no way I could unironically like it without their being something wrong with me(yes i've seen a lot of dub fans get pegged as "retards" over the years, so that's partly why I get kind of defensive over this sort of thing at times, because i've seen how ugly things can get).

Sometimes I get the impression that certain sub purists(again not you specifically) don't actually want any real discussion or debate to happen and just want to covert "dubbies" over to their side.

[Planetnamek]

Considering it's literally impossible to try discussing Dragonball in English ANYWHERE EVER without a bunch of people storming in to make Funiball and it's associated garbage part of the conversation and act as if you need to treat whatever horrendous rewrites they're dredging up as "just as valid a part of the franchise as the actual series is", I'm having a very hard time thinking of a single dub of ANYTHING that did more damage than Funiball did.

Well i'm going to argue that it is, I don't see how it did any real damage to anything as it's not like anybody is holding a gun to your head to force you to only talk about the dub, nobody is preventing anyone from discussing the original. It is part of the conversation whether you like it or not

I will never cease to be baffled by how people treat this matter as if it's some sort of life-or-death struggle against the EEEEEEEEEVIL Funimation

Fans of Dragonball would like to be able to talk about Dragonball without an army of people hijacking the conversation with "I have never touched Dragonball, but I've watched this shitty rewrite of it and I'm now going to make that part of your conversation." Yes, people can, and do, ignore you, but they'd have been much happier had your shitty rewrite never existed in the first place so your hijacking would never have had a chance to exist. THAT is how Funiball caused damage way more so than anything else I can think of.

And I REALLY don't think going "well I'm going to keep doing it whether you like it or not, smug smiley" is the best way to argue that said damage didn't take place.

Well as much as you'd like your own little exclusive club where people are never allowed to talk about the dub ever, that's not going to happen so you might as well get used to the fact that a ton of fans got exposed to the series through the dub whether you like it or not

I don't it's "hijacking" at all, I'm only being jokey about it because I can't help but roll my eyes every single time I see this elitist attitude of "i wish there had never been a dub to begin with!" as if those purists would've rather DB stayed a niche franchise and never got big in the west purely because they don't like ONE interpretation of it and they'd rather these filthy dubbies not sully the good name of their senpai , I dunno that just comes off as more then a little gatekeepy to me.

[MasenkoHA]

To be fair 99 percent of dub discussion is: Power levels, who would in a fight in this hypothetical set up and Faulconer’s music makes me horny


All of which are fairly easy to avoid.

[Planetnamek]

To be fair 99 percent of dub discussion is: Power levels, who would in a fight in this hypothetical set up and Faulconer’s music makes me horny


All of which are fairly easy to avoid.

Even as a dub fan I can't disagree with that, though I personally never gave a damn about power levels so I always found those discussions a bit baffling.

[Adamant]

Well as much as you'd like your own little exclusive club where people are never allowed to talk about the dub ever, that's not going to happen so you might as well get used to the fact that a ton of fans got exposed to the series through the dub whether you like it or not

You... do realize you responded to the claim that Funiball caused severe damage to Dragonball dicussion by making it impossible to discuss Dragonball without Funiball fans showing up to make the discussion about Funiball as well by saying BOTH "I disagree, I don't think we do that" AND "tough tits, we're not going to stop doing that" in the SAME paragraph? Right?