Did General Blue save the RR arc?

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GreatSaiyaJeff
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Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:59 am

Now I'm not sure about you guys, but General Blue made the Red Ribbon arc good. Not to say the Silver and White stuff was bad, but they were kind of bland. Murasaki being the exception. Blue on the other hand was a fun and cheesy kind of villain that made me enjoy the time he was on the pages of the manga. He also had an upper hand as he actually got the radar from the group and unlike the other generals, he was the first one to really give Goku a fight. Sure Murasaki gave Goku a fight, but it was more playful.

Those are my thoughts, how about yours?
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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:08 am

He's definitely a more memorable personality than the average Red Ribbon scrub, and he has a couple of storylines that are entertaining enough (that weird pirate cove story; the fight in Penguin Village), but ultimately he's just the next step up on the escalation of power that Goku has to beat, I guess (and also a way of introducing the real big bad of the arc, who is infinitely more memorable).

I feel like a lot of the appeal of the Red Ribbon arc is just the sense of journey and adventure, crisscrossing Dragon World in a generally fun and lively way. I guess the escalation is inherent to it as well, since Goku only goes out to get one Dragon Ball and ends up taking down a whole army, but I wouldn't necessarily credit any particular villain with 'saving' the arc or making it good on their own; it's the sum of its parts.

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by Jord » Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:13 am

I agree. He was funny, but also a threat due to his special powers. Really like how he was written. Plus it was refreshing to see a gay character in the show. The whole treasure hunt also added due to the experience and vibe.
That being said, it does emphasize how sparsely most of the other RR members were written. It's a shame too since the designs were pretty good. I'm partial to the tiger myself, being a pilot in an airplane.

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Aug 04, 2020 4:00 am

For me, everything before Korin's tower was skippable. That's not to say it was bad, but coming off the 21st Tenkaichi arc it just slowed everything down. Even Toriyama admits that writing that part of the story was a drag.

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:03 am

I wouldn´t say Blue single-handedly saved the arc (*cough* Tao Pai-Pai *cough*) but he is definitely one of its highlights.

The Muscle Tower section is one of my least favorite parts of the story (though I would still rate it at least 7/10). Metallic, Buyon, and White aren't the most interesting of enemies... Murasaki is funny but even that drags on a little too long - by the time the quintuplets appear I'm quite ready to move on to the next floor. I do like Sno and Ha-chan a lot, though. They definitely brighten this part of the story for me.

However, yes, then we get to General Blue and he's all kinds of amazing. The pirate cave adventures are filled with hilarious gags ("We report no survivors, sir", says the corpse) and even a tense race-against-the-clock finish, which is always something I enjoy in Dragon Ball. I also loooooove the part where Blue's other squad underestimates the Kame House gang and gets completely annihilated by them.

The Tao Pai-Pai section is terrific too, of course, as is Goku decimating the Red Ribbon base by himself. I kinda wish Tao Pai-Pai had stuck around at least as long as Blue, considering he's just as great of a villain, but alas we'll have to do with a pathetic return as a cyborg.

Shout-out to the James Bond-esque Kikuchi tracks that play during the General Blue section, as I love them and they automatically started playing in my head as I wrote this.
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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by jaisonas » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:07 am

TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 6:03 am
Shout-out to the James Bond-esque Kikuchi tracks that play during the General Blue section, as I love them and they automatically started playing in my head as I wrote this.
Story aside, for me the soundtrack is the highlight of Blue section. Those big band brass Bond songs are amazing!
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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by Vijay » Tue Aug 04, 2020 7:33 am

No one needs to save RRA Arc cuz it's damn awesome to begin with.

While I felt Blue gave a challenge or sorts to Goku like spyin Kame House, underwater submarine chase, fight inside the treasure tunnel I think Tao Pai Pai made RRA the absolute peak point of the arc

Not only Tao blew Blue outta park, he was legitimate first true badass DB baddie who seems evil & tough nut to crack.

Everything that follows him is hype baby! Till penultimate climatic showdown @ RRA Base.

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:33 am

I feel close to the opposite. His segment was easily the worst part of the arc. It was just long, drawn out, and boring. For me it goes

1. Tao Pai Pai
2. Muscle tower/General White
3. Assault on Red Ribbon Base
4. Colonel Silver
5. General Blue
Last edited by MasenkoHA on Tue Aug 04, 2020 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by Dr. Casey » Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:27 am

For me it probably goes

1. Tao Pai Pai
2. Assault on Red Ribbon Base
3. Muscle Tower
4. General Blue
5. Colonel Silver

I normally love Dragon Ball's filler arcs, but its first foray into anime-original material wasn't a very interesting one, even if I did appreciate the unstructured episodes and varied scenery after spending about ten episodes at the Budokai.
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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:51 pm

I wouldn't say he single handedly carried the arc, but in my opinion out of all the high ranking Red Ribbon Army members besides Commander Red and Black, he is easily the most memorable, and was the highlight of the first half of the arc to me. Colonel Silver, General White , Captain Yellow, and Colonel Violet are all pretty forgettable and are dealt with about as quickly as they are introduced. What can you tell me about those characters outside of what they look like?

With Blue we're able to spend multiple episodes with him, so we get to learn what makes him tick. Blue is a fully realized character. He has interesting abilities outside of wielding a gun. Cunning and resourceful on top of being totally ripped, he's not a total pushover and is shown to be a real threat to our heroes who wouldn't be dealt with so easily.

I'm also extra biased since I like his design the most out of everyone. :lol:
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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:03 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:51 pm
I wouldn't say he single handedly carried the arc, but in my Colonel Silver, General White , Captain Yellow, and Colonel Violet are all pretty forgettable and are dealt with about as quickly as they are introduced. What can you tell me about those characters outside of what they look like?
Colonel Violet in the manga sure. I don’t think she does anything but hand over some Dragon Ball. But the anime actually gives her some stuff to stand out such as seizing the opportunity to steal from Commander Red while everything goes to shit and pretty much rubbing it in his face.

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Wed Aug 05, 2020 2:35 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:03 am
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:51 pm
I wouldn't say he single handedly carried the arc, but in my Colonel Silver, General White , Captain Yellow, and Colonel Violet are all pretty forgettable and are dealt with about as quickly as they are introduced. What can you tell me about those characters outside of what they look like?
Colonel Violet in the manga sure. I don’t think she does anything but hand over some Dragon Ball. But the anime actually gives her some stuff to stand out such as seizing the opportunity to steal from Commander Red while everything goes to shit and pretty much rubbing it in his face.
Okay you got me there. I did like what the anime did with Violet, giving her something to actually do than just suddenly appear to hand over a Dragon Ball and disappear. I think she actually only appeared in one single panel in the manga. :lol:

I think General White is the most boring of the bunch. Because not only does he not have anything outside of the generic cardboard villain role, his design is lazy. He literally looks like Commander Red if he got his wish to be taller, even having basically the same hair style, just a different color. At least he doesnt have the eyepatch or mustache

But what makes the resemblance even weirder is that in the colored chapters of the manga with Red, he has given white hair of all colors. Making him look even closer to General White.
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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:41 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:51 pm
Colonel Silver, General White , Captain Yellow, and Colonel Violet are all pretty forgettable and are dealt with about as quickly as they are introduced. What can you tell me about those characters outside of what they look like?
No disputing any of that, but on the subject of Colonel Violet, I think she's the last Red Ribbon officer to be seen with the original Dragon Radar in the manga (she's ordered to give it to General Copper, but we never see that actually happen). I don't think she's shown to die in Goku's assault in the manga, and I don't think the original Radar is ever retrieved, either, so I always wondered, if she escaped, whether one day she might use the Radar and go on an adventure of her own...

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by GreatSaiyaJeff » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:15 pm

The colonel Violet stuff was great in the anime. As everyone was retreating because of Goku's assault, Red mistook her for staying only to see her steal everything 🤣
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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Aug 05, 2020 9:20 pm

Magnificent Ponta wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 3:41 pm
ArmenianPepsi wrote:
Tue Aug 04, 2020 1:51 pm
Colonel Silver, General White , Captain Yellow, and Colonel Violet are all pretty forgettable and are dealt with about as quickly as they are introduced. What can you tell me about those characters outside of what they look like?
No disputing any of that, but on the subject of Colonel Violet, I think she's the last Red Ribbon officer to be seen with the original Dragon Radar in the manga (she's ordered to give it to General Copper, but we never see that actually happen). I don't think she's shown to die in Goku's assault in the manga, and I don't think the original Radar is ever retrieved, either, so I always wondered, if she escaped, whether one day she might use the Radar and go on an adventure of her own...
I mean, theoretically it is totally possible for her have summoned Shenron in one of the large gaps like between DB and Z or between Namek and the Androids or between Cell and Boo. She probably would have just wished for obscene wealth since world domination clearly was never her thing

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:25 am

Yeah, kind of. Everything before the pirate cave chase really didn't cut it for me. The Muscle Tower segment was definitely a weak opening. Most of the opponents except Murasaki (whose schtick quickly wore thin after like 3 chapters) were boring and unintimidating. It's somewhat interesting to see Goku operating alone for a while, at least until Hacchan shows up, but the conflict is surprisingly more difficult to invest in than a simple tournament. Goku's gotta rescue some random village elder we don't even know from a tower in the middle of nowhere filled with bosses on each level? It all feels very, for lack of better terms, videogame-y. General Blue's appearance signifies a heightened threat and stakes, plus he's just a very cool, competent antagonist, in spite of the slightly weird connotations of his design. He's basically a Nazi SA browncoat stereotype, complete with homosexuality, vain Aryan looks and unexplained physical and mental superiority.

It doesn't help that the initial segue between the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and the Red Ribbon Army feels quite forced and unnatural. Out of nowhere, Goku decides to abandon all his friends to search for his Grandpa's Dragon Ball and yeets himself off with Kinto'un, and suddenly he's fighting military-themed enemies. Cool? I think it's no coincidence that the story really picks up the pace not just with General Blue's introduction, but with the reintroduction of Bulma, Krillin and Roshi, whose absence could definitely be felt in the earlier chapters.

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Re: Did General Blue save the RR arc?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:38 am

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:25 am

It doesn't help that the initial segue between the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai and the Red Ribbon Army feels quite forced and unnatural.
But not really because they set up Goku looking for his grandpa’s dragon ball at the end of the first arc. Bulma even gives him her dragon radar. The Red Ribbon army themselves came out of nowhere but so did Piccolo Daimao, Freeza, Cell, and Bobbidi, and Boo. Really only the Saiyans (because of their direct connection to Goku and explaining his origin) and the Cyborgs (because of their connection with the Red Ribbon Army)weren’t just like “And here’s the new villain!”

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