Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

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Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:53 pm

I'll just come out and say it: Launch, in the original manga at least, was always a really 'nothing' gag character. Her central gag is funny and unique, don't get me wrong, and she's obviously hot as hell, but she doesn't have enough going on to ever justify more appearances outside of more of the same gags. While I don't want to offend any of her genuine fans, I firmly believe that the only reason people obsess over her to the degree that they do is because of the drama surrounding her being "forgotten" by Toriyama, left in an eternal limbo that only the fans can save her from. I know there's a level of irony in some members of her fanbase where this is silently acknowledged.

Toriyama clearly never really had any plans for Launch anyway, so whenever I see calls for her to return somehow, I always find myself asking, "what exactly would she even do?" She never even did much when she was a regular. She was never really a fighter and certainly wouldn't be able to keep up with the current power level standards. She never had fleshed-out dynamics with the rest of the Dragon Team besides Roshi. The other characters mostly avoid her wrath but never talk to her individually, making you wonder why she even still hangs around with them even in her "bad" form. She's never actually contributed to any arc outside of her introduction in the training arc leading up to the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. Even her one-sided crush on Tenshinhan is little more than expository lip-service in the manga -- there's no actual build-up to it whatsoever. Well, what can you expect from an author who hates writing romance? People just want her to stand around and make token background cameos occasionally, or worse act as token arm-candy for Tenshinhan or godforbid Raditz. To me, it would make more sense for people to beg for more appearances from Oolong than her.

The anime did more to flesh her out which is cool n' all, but the (again, mostly ironic) calls for Toriyama to specifically bring her back to her nonexistent glory days are strange. You can tell that not all of them are joking, just like with all the dudes in comments sections to OG Dragon Ball YouTube clips saying that Toriyama ruined Yamcha at some nebulous point.

The whole story surrounding Toriyama forgetting her, remembering her, then forgetting he remembered her is quite fascinating and I'm pretty sure there's a whole Kanzenshuu column about it. But that's all Launch has going for her -- some out-of-universe trivia surrounding her that spiralled into a meme which some inevitably started to take too seriously. And being very very cute.
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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:49 pm

I think the Kanz article even noted it’s doubtful he forgot about her. He just wrote her out of the story. They even have Kuririn explain what happened to her. She didn’t get the Chuck Cunningham treatment

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:03 pm

Juggling a big cast is really hard and I have no qualms with just up and ditching a character or two. Something a lot of shounen comics and cartoons need to do is cut down on the number of characters and focus on developing the most essential characters to express your ideas and then get out of dodge. You don't have to throw in a character if you can't think of something for them to do that doesn't bog down your story. Naruto needed to learn from this with the Konoha Eleven.

Frankly, Dragon Ball is still making this mistake of trying to please everyone. Large casts are inherently unwieldy and disrupt the focus of the story and characters. Just look at the Moro arc!
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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by ABED » Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:26 pm

What Julie wrote.

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:18 pm

Yeah I don't think that Toriyama or Toei particularly cared very much for Lunch. There's really no good reason why she didn't reappear throughout the series' original run in the manga, anime, or movies. It's even more glaring that she didn't reappear in the revival material.

I think it's more likely a deliberate exclusion, having to do with the Lunch character specifically. But I have no idea what it could be.

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by KBABZ » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:39 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 9:03 pm
Juggling a big cast is really hard and I have no qualms with just up and ditching a character or two. Something a lot of shounen comics and cartoons need to do is cut down on the number of characters and focus on developing the most essential characters to express your ideas and then get out of dodge. You don't have to throw in a character if you can't think of something for them to do that doesn't bog down your story. Naruto needed to learn from this with the Konoha Eleven.

Frankly, Dragon Ball is still making this mistake of trying to please everyone. Large casts are inherently unwieldy and disrupt the focus of the story and characters. Just look at the Moro arc!
IMO this is one of the strengths of the Broly movie. Rather than trying to shove in EVERY character out of sheer obligation and then spend half the movie figuring out what they're supposed to be doing, it focuses on a core cast and only the characters it needs to tell its story. Launch was a cool character, but considering Toriyama is in no way interested in actually exploring her and what it means to have a dual personality, she became That Girl With The Gun and just another person to cheer from the sidelines.

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Aug 11, 2020 10:52 pm

Yeah, the Broli movie didn't have any of this "we need all the Earthlings!" Bullshit that the Moro arc is pulling. It had a tighter corr set of characters and worked from there. I do wish there had been more character interactions, though. I need more of BCL!
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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:41 pm

I’m honestly surprised characters like Oolong, Pu-er Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu weren’t written off the more irrelevant they became.

Come to think of it, Oolong is conspicuously absent from Kame House when Raditz arrives

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by Vijay » Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:52 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:53 pm
I'll just come out and say it: Launch, in the original manga at least, was always a really 'nothing' gag character. Her central gag is funny and unique, don't get me wrong, and she's obviously hot as hell, but she doesn't have enough going on to ever justify more appearances outside of more of the same gags. While I don't want to offend any of her genuine fans, I firmly believe that the only reason people obsess over her to the degree that they do is because of the drama surrounding her being "forgotten" by Toriyama, left in an eternal limbo that only the fans can save her from. I know there's a level of irony in some members of her fanbase where this is silently acknowledged.

Toriyama clearly never really had any plans for Launch anyway, so whenever I see calls for her to return somehow, I always find myself asking, "what exactly would she even do?" She never even did much when she was a regular. She was never really a fighter and certainly wouldn't be able to keep up with the current power level standards. She never had fleshed-out dynamics with the rest of the Dragon Team besides Roshi. The other characters mostly avoid her wrath but never talk to her individually, making you wonder why she even still hangs around with them even in her "bad" form. She's never actually contributed to any arc outside of her introduction in the training arc leading up to the 21st Tenkaichi Budokai. Even her one-sided crush on Tenshinhan is little more than expository lip-service in the manga -- there's no actual build-up to it whatsoever. Well, what can you expect from an author who hates writing romance? People just want her to stand around and make token background cameos occasionally, or worse act as token arm-candy for Tenshinhan or godforbid Raditz. To me, it would make more sense for people to beg for more appearances from Oolong than her.

The anime did more to flesh her out which is cool n' all, but the (again, mostly ironic) calls for Toriyama to specifically bring her back to her nonexistent glory days are strange. You can tell that not all of them are joking, just like with all the dudes in comments sections to OG Dragon Ball YouTube clips saying that Toriyama ruined Yamcha at some nebulous point.

The whole story surrounding Toriyama forgetting her, remembering her, then forgetting he remembered her is quite fascinating and I'm pretty sure there's a whole Kanzenshuu column about it. But that's all Launch has going for her -- some out-of-universe trivia surrounding her that spiralled into a meme which some inevitably started to take too seriously. And being very very cute.
Lunch was a fascinating character. But as with most Toriyama cast, he didn't utilize her much. It's not like Gintama or Sket Dance where Toriyama cud create gag scenario's surrounding her & while it would've been funny as hell, Lunch isn't focus of the show. It's Goku

Lunch was pleasing as soft-spoken lady, and hilarious when she turns blond, and that's cuz her ROFL moments with Roshi, Oolong & Krillin😂 up till Red Ribbon Army Arc, she was balanced-out quite well.

I particularly enjoyed Lunch tantrums when she shot & Roshi, Krillin & Goku while their training regiment pre-21st TB & Lunch goin mad @ market whooping assess of grocery & butcher shop owners with Krillin looking helpless & surrounded by regular customers watchin the ruckus. It's one of those Kung Fu Hustle moment when that Fat Lady dominates everyone's asses

And I'm pretty damn sure Blond Lunch would've been helpful when Z gang flew to help Goku fight Red Ribbon Army Base. Pretty sure she would've conquered at least half of the base. Yamcha, Krillin & Roshi would take care of the rest.

I just wish she had developed actual relationship with Tien. Doesn't mind if she's useful to the Z gangs or not. She had an "it" for Tien. Wonder why Toriyama chose to abandon it, while giving guys like Krillin & Vegeta pairs😅

Seems Toriyama really wants to hit home the message that Yamcha & Tien are worthless both as humans (love life, marriage, social life) & fighter😅sadist

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:20 am

Vijay wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:52 pm

I just wish she had developed actual relationship with Tien. ...Wonder why Toriyama chose to abandon it, while giving guys like Krillin & Vegeta pairs😅
Seems Toriyama really wants to hit home the message that Yamcha & Tien are worthless both as humans (love life, marriage, social life) & fighter😅sadist
Tien expressed no interest in Lunch or romance in general.

Krillin wanted to get married so of course he attached himself to the first woman who showed him affection.

Yamcha wanted to get married too but Bulma was put off with Vegeta so Toriyama could have a Half Saiyan with access to time travel technology and Yamcha had become such a background character no need to throw him a bone.

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by Vijay » Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:39 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:20 am
Vijay wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:52 pm

I just wish she had developed actual relationship with Tien. ...Wonder why Toriyama chose to abandon it, while giving guys like Krillin & Vegeta pairs😅
Seems Toriyama really wants to hit home the message that Yamcha & Tien are worthless both as humans (love life, marriage, social life) & fighter😅sadist
Tien expressed no interest in Lunch or romance in general.

Krillin wanted to get married so of course he attached himself to the first woman who showed him affection.

Yamcha wanted to get married too but Bulma was put off with Vegeta so Toriyama could have a Half Saiyan with access to time travel technology and Yamcha had become such a background character no need to throw him a bone.
Chill. For the record, Tien isn't as dense as Goku to not even know what love or marriage mean. Tien knows and it doesn't necessarily need to be two-sided. Take a look at Goku-Chichi relationship for instance. Chichi is the one that harboured love all along ever since the day she met Goku, while boi he doesn't give af abt her. Flies off training, fights, dies, again trains, dies, doesn't work, again fights, trains, doesn't work😂in Goku's busy schedule, dude hardly even has a "thing" for Chichi

Tien sooner or later would've agreed to settle down with Lunch. It's just Toriyama forgot Lunch, and in the process forgot her love interest angle for Tien, and given how the Frieza-Android-Boo Arc grew too big for regular human fighter to catch-up, boi he forgot Tien as well.

Krillin had GF Marron in Garlicky Jr filler. She showed him affection as well. Even if u discount it as filler, Krillin had few crushed in the past. Boi he even though of Upa as girl & got his hopes crushed knowing Upa was a boi 😂

Veggie outta everyone got to marry Bulma. Not like I'm having any prob with it.

It's just, AT could've just paired Lunch with Tien given how Yamcha's implied to be playboy (Trunks said this iirc) while Tien isn't. And while bald monk like Krillin himself managed to get 18, why not Tien? 😅Just curious..dats all. Not like I'm a tien or lunch fanboy or anythin...

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by KBABZ » Wed Aug 12, 2020 2:07 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 11:41 pm
I’m honestly surprised characters like Oolong, Pu-er Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu weren’t written off the more irrelevant they became.

Come to think of it, Oolong is conspicuously absent from Kame House when Raditz arrives
Maybe Roshi didn't want any competition with Bulma.

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:10 am

The most likely Toriyama "forgot" Lunch is because he didn't know what to do with her. There's only so many jokes you can revolve around her schizo persona.

It's funny how some people damn Toriyama for "forgetting" as if she wasn't mainly just there for comic relief.
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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by KBABZ » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:21 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:10 am
The most likely Toriyama "forgot" Lunch is because he didn't know what to do with her. There's only so many jokes you can revolve around her schizo persona.
I feel it's worth noting that schizophrenia is hearing voices in your head that don't feel like your own; think Senua's Sacrifice. Launch has something closer to Multiple Personality Syndrome (which is different), but of course with a specific trigger that also affects her physical appearance.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:10 am
It's funny how some people damn Toriyama for "forgetting" as if she wasn't mainly just there for comic relief.
I believe the truth is sort of a mix. Toriyama didn't include Launch initially because the cast for Raditz was quite limited: it was Goku, Roshi, Bulma, Krillin and Piccolo, as well as Gohan and Raditz himself. This expanded to include some more characters once Vegeta and Nappa showed up, and after that was over we get an even more limited cast (Bulma, Krillin and Gohan, followed by Goku) heading out into space for the longest arc the series had ever seen by that point. So to me it's small wonder that, by the time Goku returned to Earth, Launch never occurred to him.

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by Locust » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:32 am

KBABZ wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:21 am
I feel it's worth noting that schizophrenia is hearing voices in your head that don't feel like your own; think Senua's Sacrifice. Launch has something closer to Multiple Personality Syndrome (which is different), but of course with a specific trigger that also affects her physical appearance.
Not everyone with schizophrenia hears voices

That aside - was there ever an explanation of why Launch sneezing causes this? (Like maybe in one of the daizenshuu volumes?)

Personally I always had the headcanon that the blond form was the original form, that that maybe she pissed off a witch or something, and got cursed
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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by DragonBallFoodie » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:29 pm

There's no way to tell just how much mileage Launch could have managed in the DB saga.

I believe Vegeta was supposed to have died permanently on Namek, but was brought back and became a major player. Then later on Ginyu and Tien were brought back in DBS.

DB's unpredictable like that: some characters fade away, and some characters stay on and develop/evolve.
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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:00 pm

I agree with what most of you guys are saying. I think it's important to know when to let some characters drift away when you can't think of any new material for them. The same happens in real life, after all. To an extent, this can be said to apply to many of the current supporting cast who are just... lingering around with nothing to truly contribute to any arc. The Earthling fanbase will always be vocal but I think the creators just have to suck it up and pull a "look at the bunny, Lenny" and quietly send Tenshinhan and some of the others off to "the farm" rather than give people false hope. I saw the Tournament of Power, the anime version at least, as something of a last hurrah for most of them.

Without derailing this into another Moro arc moaning thread, while it was nice to see Yamcha, Chaozu and so on suit-up to defend Earth, it was so jarring when you consider that both of these guys have long since retired. Dragging them back out served no purpose. People seem to see storytelling as some kind of scoreboard -- *character X* has to be relevant to the story and given *Y* number of cool moments so I can wank them into their VS Battles Wiki profile.

Getting back to Launch, I don't feel that she's a character that needs overexplaining or exploring any further. She worked in the series' hardcore gag manga days, but now it's firmly moved into the battle genre. Whatever she's up to now, it's obviously not relevant to Goku's life anymore, and that's okay. Toriyama explained that she got bored of following Tenshinhan around and settled down somewhere to put her fans' mind at ease, but I don't need a whole chapter or episode depicting that. Also, her sneezing disorder is just that, a disorder -- in a world full of monstrous freaks, it's not that bizarre.
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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by 90sDBZ » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:36 pm

It is strange she never appeared in Super given how nostalgia focused it is.

What's even stranger is her appearing in Kai Ending 1 but not the series itself. Kids who watched Kai as their first exposure to the series must have wondered who she was.

Funnily enough I wondered who she was when she appeared during Goku's Pre-Kaioken x20 dream sequence in Funi's Z dub, as all her previous scenes had been removed from the Ocean dub.

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by Vijay » Thu Aug 13, 2020 2:33 am

90sDBZ wrote:
Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:36 pm
It is strange she never appeared in Super given how nostalgia focused it is.

What's even stranger is her appearing in Kai Ending 1 but not the series itself. Kids who watched Kai as their first exposure to the series must have wondered who she was.

Funnily enough I wondered who she was when she appeared during Goku's Pre-Kaioken x20 dream sequence in Funi's Z dub, as all her previous scenes had been removed from the Ocean dub.
I actually wondered who she was when she appeared in Boo Arc while humanity was giving their energy for Spirit Bomb

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Re: Toriyama "forgetting" Launch was the best thing that could've happened to her

Post by Draconic » Thu Aug 13, 2020 3:00 am

I think the place she would have really had any way of appearing would have been the Goku Black arc. She could've been the old leader of the human rebellion in the future, or weapons expert, or something. Mai would have been her second in command and successor.
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