Was GT a failure ?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Hellspawn28
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 15191
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
Location: Maryland, USA

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:16 pm

That's something I didn't know about. If GT was a popular hit, they would do a new show right afterward. GT ended with the next generation of Goku and Vegeta fighting each other. A GT sequel had room to do a story based on those two characters but did nothing with them after 1997.
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by ABED » Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:21 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:16 pm That's something I didn't know about. If GT was a popular hit, they would do a new show right afterward. GT ended with the next generation of Goku and Vegeta fighting each other. A GT sequel had room to do a story based on those two characters but did nothing with them after 1997.
It's just an epilogue. That doesn't prove the show wasn't a success.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

Matches Malone
Banned
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 am

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:25 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:16 pmIf GT was a popular hit, they would do a new show right afterward. GT ended with the next generation of Goku and Vegeta fighting each other. A GT sequel had room to do a story based on those two characters but did nothing with them after 1997.
Like I said in my earlier post, it seems that based on interviews, the crew went into GT with the intention of giving DB a definitive ending. There's also the fact that even before GT, DB's popularity was going down in Japan, with the franchise being more or less put on ice for 5 years following its ending (97-02). I think everyone realized that ending things on a high note would be better than pushing their luck and risking whatever they're working on being cancelled half way through.

I think it's worth mentioning that unlike now where you've got the likes of One Piece, Naruto, Pokemon, etc. reaching and exceeding 1000 episodes, the idea of something being even half that long wasn't very common back then, which is why people were getting burned out towards the end of the original DB run. After investing a decade plus in 500+ episodes, 3 TV Specials, & 17 movies, the idea of asking people to invest even more time, especially back then wasn't realistic at all.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Skar » Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:40 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Sat Sep 12, 2020 5:16 pm That's something I didn't know about. If GT was a popular hit, they would do a new show right afterward. GT ended with the next generation of Goku and Vegeta fighting each other. A GT sequel had room to do a story based on those two characters but did nothing with them after 1997.
It works as a short epilogue but that might be it. The premise would be "Goku and Vegeta Jr go on adventures" but what actual adventures would we see that would keep people invested for several sagas? That's always what I wonder when fans believe the show could easily continue for many years.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Sep 13, 2020 3:06 pm

As much as I used to wonder what a sequel series focusing on Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr. would've been like, it’s pretty clear there were never any plans for such a thing.

User avatar
eledoremassis02
I Live Here
Posts: 4164
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:31 pm

I really never left GT want more and I think the ending was better than Z. I'm watching GT in full for the second time (first time post super) and I am actually enjoying it more than I did last time (which came right after watching Z).

I think if you look at the show for what it is, and not so much compare it to Dragon Ball and Z it's fine. I think it was too early for nostalgia for the original show and the tonal/power shift from what the franchise became did make some of GT seem odd.

Actually, for some reason, GT always gave me a "what a U.S version of Dragon Ball would look like" vibe.

Goe
Not-So-Newbie
Posts: 71
Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:12 pm

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Goe » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:00 pm

We have no numeric data about audience, but even if we would have some, it may be not enought (for example, GT audience in Japan may be totally different to Europe or America audience). I can only tell you this data:

1. When I was 11, GT was released in my country (Spain). Then, I had 2 friends who were great DB fans. One of them didn’t like GT, me neither. The other friend never expressed his opinion.
2. In that times, a spanish GT magazine called “Dragon Ball GT La revista oficial” (in english: DBGT the official magazine) existed. However, content wasn’t entirely about GT and some articles about DBZ films and other Toriyama’s manga existed (I read about Dr. Slump, Dragon Boy, Karamaru or Mamejiro by first time in that magazine).
3. When I was 16, I had 3 new friends who also were DB fans. They didn’t like GT.
4. Later, at a former DB spanish forum, there were a proGT and an antiGT club. ProGT members were much more even antiGT members were a bunch (I don’t remember exact numbers, but it would be 300proGT members against 100 antiGT members or a similar proportion). Curiously, proGT fans usually said they prefer DB and DBZ but they liked GT anyway. Some anti GT fans were so full of hatred that they said “SSJ and Vegeta with moustache are garbage so it’s imposible that Toriyama, the best mangaka, did that nasty designs”. Finally, we discovered Toriyama actually did them.
5. In my university years, I met 4 proGT fans and 1 declared antiGT fan. However, one of that 4 proGTs said “everyone hates GT, but I like it”.
6. Some Google sugerences if you tipe “Dragon Ball GT es” in Google are:

Dragon Ball GT es una basura (in english: DBGT is a garbage)
Porque Dragon Ball GT es malo (in english: why DBGT is bad)

If you type one space more another suggerence is “Dragon ball GT es bueno” (In english:DBGT is good).

As a spaniard, this is my experience. It looks like DBGT here had a bunch of haters but a bunch of fans. If we compare DB, DBZ and DBGT (in Spain), it looks like DBGT is the less succesful by far, since hater of the other DB animes don’t exist. However, people who like GT seems to be a considerable number.

A guy who lived in Japan told me that GT was succesful there, but is my only reference about it. I have read USA fans prefer DBGT over DB, so the north american preferences would be: DBZ, DBGT, DB. However, I suspect is a fake rumor.

About the person who wrote GT was an absolute failure in the Kanzenshuu article, I think someone should ask him/her about that point.

User avatar
eledoremassis02
I Live Here
Posts: 4164
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by eledoremassis02 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:04 pm

I think the problem with Dragon Ball comes from the fact the FUNimation tried to market is as action-packed as Z whereas GT they cut out the more "Dragon Ball" episodes so there clearly was a fear that neither would capture the lightning that Z did in the states and the fact both DB and GT have had only 2 releases and *luckily* haven't been tampered with to the amount that Z had.

I think the allure of SSJ4 Goku, the overall look of the show, and a lot of the AF images really made GT seem more like a mystery than Dragon Ball as well, at least from my perspective.

I didn't watch any GT tho and wasn't really into FUNi's Dragon Ball dub (I channel surfed into a Jakie Chun fight and wasn't impressed *plus I thought the name was a dub name so boo on me for that one :lol: )

Gokitalo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 128
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2016 4:31 pm

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Gokitalo » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:44 pm

I'd say GT wasn't the success it could have been, but hey, it's definitely found new life thanks to Super Dragon Ball Heroes and the various other promotional material and games out there. So it's definitely endured, in its own way.

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:47 pm

eledoremassis02 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:04 pm I think the problem with Dragon Ball comes from the fact the FUNimation tried to market is as action-packed as Z whereas GT they cut out the more "Dragon Ball" episodes so there clearly was a fear that neither would capture the lightning that Z did in the states and the fact both DB and GT have had only 2 releases and *luckily* haven't been tampered with to the amount that Z had.

I think the allure of SSJ4 Goku, the overall look of the show, and a lot of the AF images really made GT seem more like a mystery than Dragon Ball as well, at least from my perspective.

I didn't watch any GT tho and wasn't really into FUNi's Dragon Ball dub (I channel surfed into a Jakie Chun fight and wasn't impressed *plus I thought the name was a dub name so boo on me for that one :lol: )
FUNimation certainly believed that they needed to market GT as something it isn’t in order for it to succeed, if that’s what you mean. It seemed to work at the time, since I believe that the show did fairly well in the United States, but I don’t know if FUNimation’s approach was because the show didn’t do well in Japan or what.

Matches Malone
Banned
Posts: 3308
Joined: Tue Jan 21, 2020 3:12 am

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:12 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:47 pmI don’t know if FUNimation’s approach was because the show didn’t do well in Japan or what.
That's exactly what it was, and I think they made the right decision. 9.9 times out of 10 I'm completely against Funimation or any other company changing anime, but this is one of those rare 0.1 instances where I think it being presented as is would've killed its chances at success.

User avatar
eledoremassis02
I Live Here
Posts: 4164
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by eledoremassis02 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 12:34 am

How did GT fare in Canada and the UK as that appears the blue water had been more accurate? (I never seen FUNi's version)

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Banned
Posts: 6995
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:04 pm

In Japan, GT was initially a failure. The ratings were underwhelming and it caused Japanese fans to lose interest in the franchise thus leading to it being cancelled prematurely.

Internationally, it has quite the cult following so companies throw a bone at that portion of a fambase every now and then.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:11 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:04 pm In Japan, GT was initially a failure. The ratings were underwhelming and it caused Japanese fans to lose interest in the franchise thus leading to it being cancelled prematurely.

Internationally, it has quite the cult following so companies throw a bone at that portion of a fambase every now and then.
It hovered around a 14.9 percent rating. To compare most of Sailor Moon was around 11 percent with the season thar aired concurrent to GT hovered around 5 percent



GT was not a failure it just suffered from franchise fatigue.

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Banned
Posts: 6995
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:24 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:11 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:04 pm In Japan, GT was initially a failure. The ratings were underwhelming and it caused Japanese fans to lose interest in the franchise thus leading to it being cancelled prematurely.

Internationally, it has quite the cult following so companies throw a bone at that portion of a fambase every now and then.
It hovered around a 14.9 percent rating. To compare most of Sailor Moon was around 11 percent with the season thar aired concurrent to GT hovered around 5 percent



GT was not a failure it just suffered from franchise fatigue.
It's not that bad by most standards it's actually pretty good but compared to DB and DBZ, GT had very low ratings.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

User avatar
eledoremassis02
I Live Here
Posts: 4164
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:40 pm

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by eledoremassis02 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:18 pm

My friend showed me this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMzkRB2YT1s (FUNimation initial message about GT)

EGonzo
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 220
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:36 am

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by EGonzo » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:24 pm

In Latin America the show was pretty successful as far as I can remember. The hate in recent times seems to be because the fans are trying to follow US memes and opinions about everything a little too much. Since apparently the show is hated in the US, it's also hated in Latin America. It's annoying, honestly, I have great memories of watching the show and discussing how great each episode was with my friends in school

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Skar » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:10 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:04 pm In Japan, GT was initially a failure. The ratings were underwhelming and it caused Japanese fans to lose interest in the franchise thus leading to it being cancelled prematurely.
We were discussing this last page but couldn't find any evidence or statement from Toei that it was cancelled prematurely. Based on the interviews, it sounded like it was intended to be short. Is there any evidence or is it just that ratings were lower than DBZ and you assume it was cancelled? Heroes was only released in Japan and still includes GT characters.

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Banned
Posts: 6995
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:03 am

Skar wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:10 am
DBZAOTA482 wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:04 pm In Japan, GT was initially a failure. The ratings were underwhelming and it caused Japanese fans to lose interest in the franchise thus leading to it being cancelled prematurely.
We were discussing this last page but couldn't find any evidence or statement from Toei that it was cancelled prematurely. Based on the interviews, it sounded like it was intended to be short. Is there any evidence or is it just that ratings were lower than DBZ and you assume it was cancelled? Heroes was only released in Japan and still includes GT characters.
I read somewhere GT was meant to be a never-ending story and you can check the ratings for yourself on this site.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: Was GT a failure ?

Post by Skar » Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:21 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Fri Sep 18, 2020 11:03 amI read somewhere GT was meant to be a never-ending story and you can check the ratings for yourself on this site.
Unless that somewhere was Kanzenshuu's translations archive then I assume it's only someone's opinion.

Post Reply