Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Imagine a new edition of the original manga run is coming for Japan and the whole world after that.
You are in charge of bringing any correction that would be needed (graphically or story-related), but it is absolutely not a full remake, just a bit of corrections here and there to make it closer to perfection than any edition prior to that.
Just like for the Perfect Edition (Kanzenban), Toriyama has accepted to be involved if some redrawing is needed, if panels must be rearranged or a few new pages must be created, but only for very rare occurences that must be chosen carefully. Toyotaro is willing to exceptionally redraw things too for those who prefer and think his style would blend better than "current Toriyama".
What corrections/update would you bring for a new, more-perfect-than-ever edition?
The ones I can think of right now would be:
Spoiler:
- Correcting minor single-panel graphical mistakes (Goku back with wristbands when he just took them off, Yamcha's hair going back to his old hairstyle, pupils for Super Saiyan Trunks...). Done by Toriyama when it needs redrawing shapes (no wristband, hairstyle...), or by Shueisha when it's just about erasing pupils for example.
- Vegeta's power level on Namek is the corrected one from the Perfect Edition (Kanzenban), which I think is 30,000 instead of 20,000. Makes more sense in this situation.
- Trunks doesn't say the numbers of the cyborgs, avoiding the plothole with calling them 19 and 20 when it's actually 17 and 18. Instead, he just says "the cyborgs" or "those cyborgs" in the sentence.
- The panel showing Bardack shows him in his armor from the events depicted in Minus and DBS: Broly, closer to the ground of the planet like he's supposed to be nowadays. Panel fully redrawn by Toriyama.
- Minor dialogue update for Freeza since Minus and DBS: Broly have made it clear that he also knew about the notion of Super Saiyan God. He would mention getting rid of the Saiyans before they become those Super Saiyan Gods or something. The reader who doesn't know about Super yet would take it as an exageration of the legend that treats Super Saiyans like gods, while those continuing to Super would know why he mentionned that "Super Saiyan God" term.
- As soon as a volume reveals Goku's Saiyan origins and the existence of aliens, volumes would include one chapter from Jaco as a bonus everytime, culminating with Minus and giving more backstory to characters later introduced in DBS and the Dragon Ball World overall.
- Future Trunks' ending narration would not say that peace would last as long as he was alive, but that he would try his best to preserve that new-found peace in his world. That way it doesn't contradict Goku Black's arrival in his future for those continuing onto DBS.
- Much like in the game Kakarot, the old Kaio Shin would say that the potara fusion lasts forever "as far as I know" or "based on my own experience". This sets up the reveal in DBS that it is not the case for everybody.
- Some non-specific reference would be made about the existence of Beerus during the Majin Boo arc. Something like Kaio Shin saying they would usually have a way to deal with anything threatening the universe, but that it's not available to them right now. People not knowing more would later think he talked about the Z-Sword, for which he has high hopes. But those proceeding to DBS would know that Beerus is supposed to be the N°1 way to defend the universe that even Majin Boo couldn't have faced, but was unavailable because of his bad sleeping habit.
Cold Skin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:40 pm
Imagine a new edition of the original manga run is coming for Japan and the whole world after that.
You are in charge of bringing any correction that would be needed (graphically or story-related), but it is absolutely not a full remake, just a bit of corrections here and there to make it closer to perfection than any edition prior to that.
Just like for the Perfect Edition (Kanzenban), Toriyama has accepted to be involved if some redrawing is needed, if panels must be rearranged or a few new pages must be created, but only for very rare occurences that must be chosen carefully. Toyotaro is willing to exceptionally redraw things too for those who prefer and think his style would blend better than "current Toriyama".
What corrections/update would you bring for a new, more-perfect-than-ever edition?
The ones I can think of right now would be:
Spoiler:
- Correcting minor single-panel graphical mistakes (Goku back with wristbands when he just took them off, Yamcha's hair going back to his old hairstyle, pupils for Super Saiyan Trunks...). Done by Toriyama when it needs redrawing shapes (no wristband, hairstyle...), or by Shueisha when it's just about erasing pupils for example.
- Vegeta's power level on Namek is the corrected one from the Perfect Edition (Kanzenban), which I think is 30,000 instead of 20,000. Makes more sense in this situation.
- Trunks doesn't say the numbers of the cyborgs, avoiding the plothole with calling them 19 and 20 when it's actually 17 and 18. Instead, he just says "the cyborgs" or "those cyborgs" in the sentence.
- The panel showing Bardack shows him in his armor from the events depicted in Minus and DBS: Broly, closer to the ground of the planet like he's supposed to be nowadays. Panel fully redrawn by Toriyama.
- Minor dialogue update for Freeza since Minus and DBS: Broly have made it clear that he also knew about the notion of Super Saiyan God. He would mention getting rid of the Saiyans before they become those Super Saiyan Gods or something. The reader who doesn't know about Super yet would take it as an exageration of the legend that treats Super Saiyans like gods, while those continuing to Super would know why he mentionned that "Super Saiyan God" term.
- As soon as a volume reveals Goku's Saiyan origins and the existence of aliens, volumes would include one chapter from Jaco as a bonus everytime, culminating with Minus and giving more backstory to characters later introduced in DBS and the Dragon Ball World overall.
- Future Trunks' ending narration would not say that peace would last as long as he was alive, but that he would try his best to preserve that new-found peace in his world. That way it doesn't contradict Goku Black's arrival in his future for those continuing onto DBS.
- Much like in the game Kakarot, the old Kaio Shin would say that the potara fusion lasts forever "as far as I know" or "based on my own experience". This sets up the reveal in DBS that it is not the case for everybody.
- Some non-specific reference would be made about the existence of Beerus during the Majin Boo arc. Something like Kaio Shin saying they would usually have a way to deal with anything threatening the universe, but that it's not available to them right now. People not knowing more would later think he talked about the Z-Sword, for which he has high hopes. But those proceeding to DBS would know that Beerus is supposed to be the N°1 way to defend the universe that even Majin Boo couldn't have faced, but was unavailable because of his bad sleeping habit.
Changing bits of dialogue here and there to improve continuity, like with the Androids' numbers, I'd be fine with but I think correcting artwork and rearranging panel layouts is maybe a bridge too far. Don't wanna go too George Lucas/"MACLUNKEY" Special Edition mode, there's no need for it. Maybe some truly granular ones like the wristbands and hairstyles things you mentioned but that's really the limit for me.
Most of the dialogue changes in your list are kinda unnecessary. I always found Freeza namedropping the Super Saiyan God myth alongside Super Saiyan in Minus to be really forced to begin with so I'd rather that be kept out of the original script. Trunks wanting to keep the future peaceful forever is perfectly in-character for him as he couldn't possibly have known that Babidi or Goku Black would attack later. Lastly, Shin (bafflingly) didn't really know anything about Beerus until Battle of Gods. If they're going to make a reference to Beerus, I'd rather Old Kaioshin make a subtle jab about being sealed in the Z-Sword by someone almost as hungry as Buu...
Take the Kanzenban as a base, but replace the Vegeta panels at the end on the final page with the original Toriyama farewell from the original serialisation.
Reinstate the handful of original covers that were redrawn for the Kanzenban.
Put the Trunks extra chapter in the middle of one of the main volumes, rather than at the very end of IIRC the last volume.
No other changes.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.
When it comes to the original material (519 chapters), I'd just fix common contradictions and art mistakes. As a major bonus to this release, I'd have Toyotaro adapt the entire Bardock TV special before Goku's fight with Freeza. When it comes to the Trunks side chapter, I'd have it replaced with a Toyotaro adapted version of the Trunks TV special.
When it comes to a new release of Super, I'd like to see BOG, RF, & Broly get full manga adaptions. I'd also like to see the U6 arc expanded upon, as Toyotaro was limited to 15-20 pages while working on it. Zamasu and the tournament of power are fine as is, unless the changes are simple mistake corrections.
-Minor dialogue and draw corrections.
-Color some pages with characters that haven't been colored (Evil Buu, Kaiōshins, Cell Jr, etc), and I would personally love color consistencies “corrections” (yellow/purple Kintō, yellow/green kid Gohan's outfit, blue Ch.1 Bulma hair)
-DB Minus Bardock
LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:59 pm
Trunks wanting to keep the future peaceful forever is perfectly in-character for him as he couldn't possibly have known that Babidi or Goku Black would attack later.
Oh, it's not about what Trunks wants.
It's just the narration that's plain wrong in the last panel due to DBS.
"After many years of suffering, peace has finally returned in Trunks and Bulma's future... And as long as Trunks is here to keep watch, that peace will never be disturbed ever again".
Well, Goku Black has another opinion on peace never being disturbed ever again as long as Trunks is around.
I had forgotten that Kaio Shin doesn't know about Beerus before BOG, so you're right, it's only natural that he shouldn't mention him and that the old Kaio Shin should be the one to make a quick reference other than "an evil being".
LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:59 pm
Trunks wanting to keep the future peaceful forever is perfectly in-character for him as he couldn't possibly have known that Babidi or Goku Black would attack later.
Oh, it's not about what Trunks wants.
It's just the narration that's plain wrong in the last panel due to DBS.
"After many years of suffering, peace has finally returned in Trunks and Bulma's future... And as long as Trunks is here to keep watch, that peace will never be disturbed ever again".
Well, Goku Black has another opinion on peace never being disturbed ever again as long as Trunks is around.
I had forgotten that Kaio Shin doesn't know about Beerus before BOG, so you're right, it's only natural that he shouldn't mention him and that the old Kaio Shin should be the one to make a quick reference other than "an evil being".
Hmm... A lot of the captions can be quite misleading if you take them literally though, like the one saying that Gohan would be the main character from then on. That's probably a bit higher on the list of ones to change considering how that turned out only a few chapters later. A major reason why I'd rather for these things to not be changed is that... it's history. Even though we all know that Gohan would never truly take the lead, or that Trunks' future would eventually be obliterated again, Toriyama didn't write with that knowledge in mind.
It's like in the Special Edition of Revenge of the Sith when they superimposed a ghostly Hayden Christensen over the old guy who played Vader/Anakin unmasked. Luke still acts like he recognises him immediately even though his first reaction should be "who the hell is this long-haired emo kid?" It's unnecessarily including a piece of information that only audiences with the benefit of hindsight would be able to understand.
Unlike the Special Editions which effectively replaced the original cuts (or the closest we could get on video), this hypothetical re-edit of the manga could coexist alongside the older "purer" editions, but the trouble is that many new people could mistakenly buy it expecting to be reading the manga in its original, unaltered state -- god knows I already sometimes get confused between all the different editions that are already out there, I don't need more taxation on my fragile little mind.
A major reason why I'd rather for these things to not be changed is that... it's history. Even though we all know that Gohan would never truly take the lead, or that Trunks' future would eventually be obliterated again, Toriyama didn't write with that knowledge in mind. 