I'm on the same page with you on that front. To me, the dub is enough for me to be willing to look past some of Kai's jank. That and the fact I've watched it enough to grow mostly numb to stuff like the sloppy digital redraws, awkward transitions, or questionable choices of what to cut or keep in. I say "Mostly" though...SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:58 pm Still though, that's my other main reason for going with Kai on most viewings of the series aside from the FUNi dub being the preferred way for me to watch the show in English here given just how absolutely horrible and unwatchable the old DBZ dub was. I still stick with the latter for Japanese viewing though because it's the superior experience on that front.
I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
I feel like maybe 10% of the redraws were actually used on scenes that needed it (flashing lights and animation errors). What a dumb and arbitrary waste of money.
Like if they only applied the redraws where ACTUALLY necessary, they probably could've poured all their resources into making them look good and inconspicuous.
Like if they only applied the redraws where ACTUALLY necessary, they probably could've poured all their resources into making them look good and inconspicuous.
Last edited by jjgp1112 on Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
True, there were quite a few redraws in Kai that actually looked really good for the most part and fit almost seamlessly over the original scenes but also some pure garbage ones like the above. Still though i can look past most of the aforementioned technical flaws with the show itself because the dub is mostly a solid bit of work from the FUNi cast (questionable casting holdovers aside, but that's another story) that gives me a watchable version of DBZ in English which just simply couldn't be said for the old dub.ArmenianPepsi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:22 pmI'm on the same page with you on that front. To me, the dub is enough for me to be willing to look past some of Kai's jank. That and the fact I've watched it enough to grow mostly numb to stuff like the sloppy digital redraws, awkward transitions, or questionable choices of what to cut or keep in. I say "Mostly" though...SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:58 pm Still though, that's my other main reason for going with Kai on most viewings of the series aside from the FUNi dub being the preferred way for me to watch the show in English here given just how absolutely horrible and unwatchable the old DBZ dub was. I still stick with the latter for Japanese viewing though because it's the superior experience on that front.
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Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
2.) Collect rest of manga
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1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
2.) Collect rest of manga
3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)
Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
I wish they kept in some of the Ginyu force comedy scenes like the chocolate bar and Ginyu throwing Freeza's men in the air. The Ginyu Force were over with so quickly it was kind of funny they made a new theme song for them and everything.
Yeah, Kai made Yamcha/Tenshinhan/Chaotzu even more minor characters than they were in DBZ already. All their intro scenes and majority of training scenes were cut, and 90% of their scenes on King Kai's planet were gone including the jokes/bubbles/gregory stuff. But it doesn't matter.
Yeah, Kai made Yamcha/Tenshinhan/Chaotzu even more minor characters than they were in DBZ already. All their intro scenes and majority of training scenes were cut, and 90% of their scenes on King Kai's planet were gone including the jokes/bubbles/gregory stuff. But it doesn't matter.
Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
Kai didn't cover too few chapters, it just did so poorly. The Saiyan arc is only, what, 48 chapters? Dragon Ball chapters are usually only 15 pages long, too. Covering four chapters per episode (60 pages) isn't too much to ask for, especially if you make some cha ges to better fit the different medium.
Like...yeah, you can kill Gokuu in the second episode and still have it fit naturally, especially id you don't just rely on then-twenty year old animation.
Like...yeah, you can kill Gokuu in the second episode and still have it fit naturally, especially id you don't just rely on then-twenty year old animation.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
There was one part of Buu that was terribly edited, and that's the fight between Ssj3 Goku and Fat Buu. While trunks is looking for the radar, one scene he'll be in base, then next in Ssj, only to be in base again following that. The major one however is when Goku first attacks Buu. Take a look.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFxig0jtNk
Why on earth would you cut the frame of Goku punching Buu ? It can't be due to time as they left plenty of Trunks searching for the radar in. it's such an awkward scene.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
Not for a second do I believe that Goku's death could happen on episode 2 and have it all feel remotely natural. Moments need to breathe.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:16 am Kai didn't cover too few chapters, it just did so poorly. The Saiyan arc is only, what, 48 chapters? Dragon Ball chapters are usually only 15 pages long, too. Covering four chapters per episode (60 pages) isn't too much to ask for, especially if you make some cha ges to better fit the different medium.
Like...yeah, you can kill Gokuu in the second episode and still have it fit naturally, especially id you don't just rely on then-twenty year old animation.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
What? Sure you can, especially with new animation from scratch, as I was insinuating.ABED wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:16 amNot for a second do I believe that Goku's death could happen on episode 2 and have it all feel remotely natural. Moments need to breathe.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:16 am Kai didn't cover too few chapters, it just did so poorly. The Saiyan arc is only, what, 48 chapters? Dragon Ball chapters are usually only 15 pages long, too. Covering four chapters per episode (60 pages) isn't too much to ask for, especially if you make some cha ges to better fit the different medium.
Like...yeah, you can kill Gokuu in the second episode and still have it fit naturally, especially id you don't just rely on then-twenty year old animation.
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Fuck, I can't believe I broke my policy of only visiting the forums on my phone so I could write this post. >_<
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
Writing an outline of what you think would work and saying reanimate it isn't convincing. There's no way to tell from bullet points how the pacing will feel. 10 minutes from the time we begin the episode and establish Gohan, where everyone is after the time skip, establishing a mood, to Raditz showing up at Kame House? That's rushing.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
The stupid, pointless, or cheesy filler aside, the slow pacing of the series at least brought one positive effect: They heavily relied on the music to keep the tension in slow-paced scenes, which made the Kikuchi score very memorable and iconic as a result.
Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
Yeah, going through that outline...there is absolutely no way you can get through the ENTIRE Raditz scene on Kame House (with a whole ass extra part with Master Roshi's most elaborate attack!), Piccolo's arrival, AND the first half of Goku & Piccolo vs. Raditz in 10 minutes without it being a slapdash mess.ABED wrote: ↑Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:04 pm Writing an outline of what you think would work and saying reanimate it isn't convincing. There's no way to tell from bullet points how the pacing will feel. 10 minutes from the time we begin the episode and establish Gohan, where everyone is after the time skip, establishing a mood, to Raditz showing up at Kame House? That's rushing.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
I'm making my way through the manga right now (starting with Goku meeting Bulls), and am currently on Bake Goku vs Frieza. I think the Namek/Ginyu/Frieza saga heavily benefits from the manga and Kai's pacing...but for the Saiyan saga I think I have to give the nod largely to the original Z anime.The year of training while preparing for the Saiyans just feels so much more immersive; it truly feels like we're with Earth's heroes as they all prepare for this imminent threat. Gohan's filler in particular really fleshed out his journey from cowardly little boy to fledgling warrior. My favorite filler moment is the moment where he has to choose between going back to Chi-Chi or staying in the wilderness training with Piccolo.
The Saiyan saga filler also further fleshed out the other human characters like Tien, Yamcha, and Bulma. It was just nice seeing them as people living lives, like Yamcha's baseball or even Tien keeping up his training (waterfall scene) while going steady with Launch. Although later sagas definitely have filler I enjoy, I think the other sagas largely benefit from Kai. Saiyan saga I think slightly suffers from it.
The Saiyan saga filler also further fleshed out the other human characters like Tien, Yamcha, and Bulma. It was just nice seeing them as people living lives, like Yamcha's baseball or even Tien keeping up his training (waterfall scene) while going steady with Launch. Although later sagas definitely have filler I enjoy, I think the other sagas largely benefit from Kai. Saiyan saga I think slightly suffers from it.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
Glad to see someone else say this. There is so much of Z that has little to no emotional impact of relevance if you're looking at Z as the beginning of the series. Kami's lookout, who Roshi, Bulma, Krillin, Yamcha, Tien, etc. are, Piccolo being Goku's mortal enemy and teaming up with him, Goku dying even...I can honestly say that, reading the manga, the Saiyan saga truly does seem to flow naturally from the 23rd Budokai saga (albeit a time skip). And despite being marketed as a new series, the Saiyan saga of the Z anime still feels remarkably close tonally to the last few sagas of the OG Dragon Ball anime.ArmenianPepsi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:46 pmSkipping right to Z would be like reading Lord of The Rings, but you skip right to Two Towers and treat Fellowship of The Ring as the "Optional prequel story of Frodo Baggins"
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
I think the Saiyan and Boo saga filler was the best honestly. Saiyan filler for the training and Goku on Snake Way, and a lot of the Boo saga filler is fun because it's self-contained stories and didn't intrude on the main story too badly like the Saiyaman eps, the Pikkon tournament, the extra Gotenks fights against Buu being on-screen, the adventures inside Boo's body, etc.
Cell saga filler isn't too bad either to be honestly. Outside some stuff here and there, there's honestly not much I would cut from it.
It really is only the Namek saga that got screwed over by filler. Fake Namek and the long drawn out fights. I guess if you include Garlic Jr. too.
Cell saga filler isn't too bad either to be honestly. Outside some stuff here and there, there's honestly not much I would cut from it.
It really is only the Namek saga that got screwed over by filler. Fake Namek and the long drawn out fights. I guess if you include Garlic Jr. too.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
I agree about the Saiyan arc and Namek arc filler, but the Buu arc filler worked in its favor? It's an arc that's already too long to begin with.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
The Freeza arc is the only time I felt the pacing is truly terrible and as bad as people say it is, although the Cell and Majin Boo arcs had some pretty rough patches.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
A lot of the Boo saga filler was self-contained arcs or segments, and while of course the fights against Boo are longer in the anime than the manga...you can say the same for any anime fight. The problem with Namek is the bulk of the filler in the latter half was just to extend Goku Vs. Freeza, along with the constant cutaways to King Kai's planet, whatever Bulma was doing, and so forth.
Likewise getting to see base form Gotenks fight Fat Boo was great IMO. We got to see that form get some use, same with Vegito fighting for an ep in his base form. I quite liked all these added aspects, as well as SSJ2 Goku fighting Kid Boo a bit before powering up.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
What self contained arcs are you referring to? There are BITS I like but the arc is still way too long even in the original manga. In the anime it's well over 90 episodes. That's too damn long. The Buu arc has this odd dichotomy of feeling too long and rushed.precita wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:42 pmA lot of the Boo saga filler was self-contained arcs or segments, and while of course the fights against Boo are longer in the anime than the manga...you can say the same for any anime fight. The problem with Namek is the bulk of the filler in the latter half was just to extend Goku Vs. Freeza, along with the constant cutaways to King Kai's planet, whatever Bulma was doing, and so forth.
Likewise getting to see base form Gotenks fight Fat Boo was great IMO. We got to see that form get some use, same with Vegito fighting for an ep in his base form. I quite liked all these added aspects, as well as SSJ2 Goku fighting Kid Boo a bit before powering up.
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Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
I think episode count doesn't matter as much as how well the time is being used and what works best for the story. For some series, a 90 episode saga may fall short. Maybe a story might need a 200 episode arc, it depends.
The Boo saga however probably just didn't need its length. There is a lot of poorly written foolishness in there, including some all-time low points for the series. I will forgive the episode count to a partial extent though, because of the introduction with Gohan and the 25th Budoukai. It seems like the Boo arc doesn't properly begin right away. Additionally, being the final arc of the series is also something to consider.
The Boo saga however probably just didn't need its length. There is a lot of poorly written foolishness in there, including some all-time low points for the series. I will forgive the episode count to a partial extent though, because of the introduction with Gohan and the 25th Budoukai. It seems like the Boo arc doesn't properly begin right away. Additionally, being the final arc of the series is also something to consider.
Re: I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage
MyVisionity wrote: ↑Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:47 pm I think episode count doesn't matter as much as how well the time is being used and what works best for the story. For some series, a 90 episode saga may fall short. Maybe a story might need a 200 episode arc,
I can’r think of a single series where a 90 episode saga feels short or any story that would need 200 episodes to tell an arc