I feel like the slow pacing for DBZ in the anime and filler works to its advantage

[ABED]

The transforming problem I can understand, but I never had a problem with the length of Boo's introduction. I thought that the pacing was just right.

If it takes a year(?) to introduce the main villain then it takes a year. It's not about how much time it takes, it's about how well the time is utilized.

It didn't need to take a year, and no story can possibly utilize that kind of time well. It's treading water. Half of the Buu arc is filler and can be easily excised without losing anything substantive.

The transformations are an effect of the length of the story. It keeps the story going and gives the appearance of forward momentum.

[MyVisionity]

The transforming problem I can understand, but I never had a problem with the length of Boo's introduction. I thought that the pacing was just right.

If it takes a year(?) to introduce the main villain then it takes a year. It's not about how much time it takes, it's about how well the time is utilized.

It didn't need to take a year, and no story can possibly utilize that kind of time well. It's treading water. Half of the Buu arc is filler and can be easily excised without losing anything substantive.

The transformations are an effect of the length of the story. It keeps the story going and gives the appearance of forward momentum.

How was anything that happened prior to Boo appearing "treading water"? Everything that occurred was in order to progress the plot. It took its time, but that was in service to the story.

[ABED]

The transforming problem I can understand, but I never had a problem with the length of Boo's introduction. I thought that the pacing was just right.

If it takes a year(?) to introduce the main villain then it takes a year. It's not about how much time it takes, it's about how well the time is utilized.

It didn't need to take a year, and no story can possibly utilize that kind of time well. It's treading water. Half of the Buu arc is filler and can be easily excised without losing anything substantive.

The transformations are an effect of the length of the story. It keeps the story going and gives the appearance of forward momentum.

How was anything that happened prior to Boo appearing "treading water"? Everything that occurred was in order to progress the plot. It took its time, but that was in service to the story.

Did we really need to spend that much time in high school? And again, it didn't need to take nearly 50 episodes for all those plot points, but most of the treading is done when Buu is released.

[MyVisionity]

Did we really need to spend that much time in high school?

It was only like five or six episodes. And it was to introduce Videl's character and establish her relationship with Gohan. Aside from that, you get new characters introduced like the Orange Star High gang, Trunks, and Goten. As well as reintroducing old characters.

[ABED]

Did we really need to spend that much time in high school?

It was only like five or six episodes. And it was to introduce Videl's character and establish her relationship with Gohan. Aside from that, you get new characters introduced like the Orange Star High gang, Trunks, and Goten. As well as reintroducing old characters.

Videl, Trunks,, and Goten great but none of his other high school friends are interesting. They're completely beside the point. It's the least interesting part of that story.

Kai does it in 4 and it really could've been 3 had they created it from scratch.

[MasenkoHA]

but none of his other high school friends are interesting. They're completely beside the point. It's the least interesting part of that story.

It was hilarious his other classmates were included in the OP as if they weren’t glorified extras.

[precita]

I'm convinced he's arguing in bad faith at this point. Saying the Boo saga should skip all the world building prior to its hatching is like saying the Namek saga should have skipped all of Freeza's minions, never introduced Zarbon/Dodoria or the Ginyu Force and go straight to the group fighting Freeza as soon as they saw him at the first Namek village.

I don't understand this logic. Every saga like the Freeza arc and the Cell arc had world building that had the story center around things building up to the final battle. They had to fight through Freeza's minions to get to Freeza, the Cell arc introduced 5 different Androids they had to get through before we got to Perfect Cell.

How the hell is any of that different than what the Boo saga did? We had a 7 year timeskip, introducing a new Gohan, the tournament and Supreme Kai, and of course Babidi/Dabura and the henchmen were the same building up the underlings have in every other saga before the main villain. Not to mention Goku vs. Majin Vegeta. I can understand the second half of the Boo saga spending so much time on Fusion, but to complain about the first half is absurd.

Might as well not watch any Dragonball saga then if you just want to skip to the main villain.

[JulieYBM]

I would totally skip the Gi'nyuu Tokusentai. At that point they're just kind of stalling the plot, which one wouldn't need to do in a work with an actual end in mind and not needing to prolong the story to sell magazines. Zarbon works more than well enough as a penultimate foe for Vegeta before we get to Freeza.

[MyVisionity]

but none of his other high school friends are interesting. They're completely beside the point. It's the least interesting part of that story.

It was hilarious his other classmates were included in the OP as if they weren’t glorified extras.

I think it's probably because they needed to fill the space left by the characters who departed in the Cell Saga, so they squeezed them in. It's a bit like the later seasons of Happy Days when the original cast had moved on and they just threw in the new supporting players into the final shot.

I always liked Sharpner, Erasa and the gang and for me they were a highlight of the arc. It's a shame there weren't any more episodes of them, cuz I can think of lots of story material for those characters. I get excited just getting a brief glimpse of them in Movie 13.

[ABED]

but none of his other high school friends are interesting. They're completely beside the point. It's the least interesting part of that story.

It was hilarious his other classmates were included in the OP as if they weren’t glorified extras.

I think it's probably because they needed to fill the space left by the characters who departed in the Cell Saga, so they squeezed them in. It's a bit like the later seasons of Happy Days when the original cast had moved on and they just threw in the new supporting players into the final shot.

I always liked Sharpner, Erasa and the gang and for me they were a highlight of the arc. It's a shame there weren't any more episodes of them, cuz I can think of lots of story material for those characters. I get excited just getting a brief glimpse of them in Movie 13.

Happy Days is a sitcom about growing up in the 50s/60s. DB is a story about martial artists that develops into multiverse level stakes. Two completely different genres.

Totally disagree with Julie about the Ginyu Tokusentai. It's like an amuse bouche and some of the best fights of the series. Not to mention it provides a great reversal and twist where Gohan and Kuririn have to team up just to survive.

I'm convinced he's arguing in bad faith at this point. Saying the Boo saga should skip all the world building prior to its hatching is like saying the Namek saga should have skipped all of Freeza's minions, never introduced Zarbon/Dodoria or the Ginyu Force and go straight to the group fighting Freeza as soon as they saw him at the first Namek village.

You're right, I'm arguing in bad faith. It couldn't possibly be that I disagree with you. And no, that is not the same as saying the namek arc should skip Freeza's minions because that's NOT world building. Freeza is introduced early in the arc and the story gets moving fairly quickly. His minions are obstacles to the heroes' goals. World building is the construction of the imaginary world and the rules, etc. that govern it. It's stuff like the god hierarchy, the number of sectors on Earth, the number of universes in the multiverse, that DB's Earth has a monarchy, etc.

We don't spend nearly 25 episodes with a gag arc and a meaningless tournament. I know the purpose they serve to the arc but it shouldn't take that many episodes. I was VERY clear that it was the amount of time it takes to get to the main villain, not that they should've skipped straight to fighting the big bad. Nearly every single response has been me talking about the episode count, not cutting to the main villain.

No one is saying skip to the main villain.

[precita]

The tournament was set up for Supreme Kai's introduction and Babidi's minions gathering energy to bring back Boo. You're acting like it had no relation. The Boo arc had just as much set up to reviving him as it was when he was here,

[ABED]

The tournament was set up for Supreme Kai's introduction and Babidi's minions gathering energy to bring back Boo. You're acting like it had no relation. The Boo arc had just as much set up to reviving him as it was when he was here,

i get that but the set up isn’t so complex that it requires nearly as many episodes as DBZ would lead you to believe

Unfortunately a lot of the set up gets subverted making much of it feel like padding

[precita]

I mean the anime of course extended it with filler scenes not in the manga, but that happens in every saga anyway. As said, Cell isn't even introduced a ways into his own saga as we have to deal with Freeza/King Cold, then Gero and 19, and 17/18/16 before he's even introduced. And even further if you wait to his Perfect Form.

The wait to see Boo was really no different. Freeza is introduced early but the cast doesn't start fighting with him into halfway into his saga.

[Kamiccolo9]

You could easily cut out 16, 17, and 18.

[ABED]

I mean the anime of course extended it with filler scenes not in the manga, but that happens in every saga anyway. As said, Cell isn't even introduced a ways into his own saga as we have to deal with Freeza/King Cold, then Gero and 19, and 17/18/16 before he's even introduced. And even further if you wait to his Perfect Form.

The wait to see Boo was really no different. Freeza is introduced early but the cast doesn't start fighting with him into halfway into his saga.

i don’t like that the filler stretches the previous arcs interminably and just because something was done before doesn’t make it a good idea. Lastly, you are just pointing out there is a lot of padding even with the canon material. At the the very least in the cell arc the mystery is introduced early. We don’t spend a lot of time on fluff

[MasenkoHA]

I mean the anime of course extended it with filler scenes not in the manga, but that happens in every saga anyway. As said, Cell isn't even introduced a ways into his own saga as we have to deal with Freeza/King Cold, then Gero and 19, and 17/18/16 before he's even introduced. And even further if you wait to his Perfect Form.

The Boo arc was building up to Boo and it took like 35 episodes to get to him.

Cell wasn’t the designated big bad of the Artifical Human arc he just ended up being the biggest threat of that story arc

The wait to see Boo was really no different. Freeza is introduced early but the cast doesn't start fighting with him into halfway into his saga.

But Freeza is introduced relatively early into his story arc. Even if he doesn’t directly fight any of the characters he’s still there as the big bad.

[MasenkoHA]

You could easily cut out 16, 17, and 18.

No you can’t . Cell needing to devour them gives him a goal to reach so he’s not just some random monster causing havoc.

[MyVisionity]

Happy Days is a sitcom about growing up in the 50s/60s. DB is a story about martial artists that develops into multiverse level stakes. Two completely different genres.

Toriyama plays with different genres all of the time. High school drama and situational comedy would not be completely out of place in Dragon Ball, as we see within those episodes. We could have had a number of more high school episodes in that arc, as well as maybe at the end of the Boo saga. Not to mention in movies and specials. I can see Sharpner and Erasa joining the Dragon Team in some capacity, even if only floating.

[ABED]

Happy Days is a sitcom about growing up in the 50s/60s. DB is a story about martial artists that develops into multiverse level stakes. Two completely different genres.

Toriyama plays with different genres all of the time. High school drama and situational comedy would not be completely out of place in Dragon Ball, as we see within those episodes. We could have had a number of more high school episodes in that arc, as well as maybe at the end of the Boo saga. Not to mention in movies and specials. I can see Sharpner and Erasa joining the Dragon Team in some capacity, even if only floating.

It would be out of place for an extended period and even his genre mashing was filtered through the lens of a martial arts story. The Great Saiyaman episodes is already too long as is. It's a novelty that quickly wears out its welcome because it is out of place.

What the hell would Sharpner and Erasa add to the group? Those are two of the most random characters to add to the team

[jjgp1112]

I think Toriyama just had no idea what to do with High School Gohan past the initial premise and Toei made the OP operating on the assumption that maybe it'd actually go somewhere.