I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Fri Sep 25, 2020 10:29 pm

precita wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:22 pm I always see him complaining when he finishes voice work on a show and says, "I need a new job." Dragonball has given him a consistent source of income because he's always dubbing the videogames every year as well...so he's almost continuously voicing Goku outside the shows.
Just because the income is consistent doesn't mean it's good. The union rate for dubbing is $64.25/hour with a 2-hour minimum. Sure, that adds up after a while if you're consistently working on a character that frequently shows up (a generous assumption, but one that for the sake of playing devil's advocate, I'll entertain since we are talking about the lead character of DBZ in this instance). Still, even in that circumstance, it's not close enough to make a full-time living out of. And again, that's the union rate...except for some once-in-a-blue-moon occasions when they get the rights to the sequel/spin-off of a show that was previously done with a union dub, FUNimation's dubs are non-union.

As others have said, though, that would add up for FUNimation after a while taking into account all the actors they'd have to bring back. Plus the ADR writers. Plus the directors. Plus the engineers. Plus the mixers. For 290-something episodes and thirteen movies. This isn't a matter of FUNimation being cheap, it's simply a matter of fact that, while an individual actor may not make much on a dub, producing a dub is quite the expensive endeavor overall, and I agree that there's absolutely no way FUNimation would make their money back producing a new dub.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by Matches Malone » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:09 am

precita wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:22 pmI'm sure if he got offered a big paycheck he wouldn't say no to redubbing Goku. The old dub is literally 20 years old now too. I'm surprised a relic from 20 years ago is still being offered as product in 2020.
That's the problem, it would require a big paycheck that could be going into other anime instead. Financially speaking, why bother with a re-dub when it's already selling as much as it is ? There's also the fact that a re-dub would be direct competition to Kai. Unlike the majority of countries where Kai is marketed as a faster paced version of Z, in the US, it's also marketed as having a faithful dub. If Z were to be redubbed, not only would it cost a fortune, it'd give people one less reason to invest in Kai. In terms of something so old and outdated being offered today, you can thank the Toonami fan base's "nostalgia" and "childhood" for that, as they're the ones investing so much $$$ into it.
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:37 pmThe problem with Kai is its a half ass recut of the show.
Despite that through, its dub is a selling point, something that won't be possible if Z is redubbed. If you want all 291 episodes you have to buy Z, but you also have to buy Kai for a good dub. Why re-dub Z when you can force people to buy both ?

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:41 am

Matches Malone wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:09 am
Despite that through, its dub is a selling point, something that won't be possible if Z is redubbed. If you want all 291 episodes you have to buy Z, but you also have to buy Kai for a good dub. Why re-dub Z when you can force people to buy both ?
The “this is a the dub done right”’ aspect isn’t really the selling point you think it is. It’s not like Funimation openly promoted Kai as “Yeah we screwed the pooch with Z so here’s a good dub” They’ve never actually marketed it as a faithful dub.

“It’s Dragon Ball Z without the filler” (which itself isn’t entirely true ) has always been Kai’s big selling point. It’s not like the Blue Rays themselves are tagged “Look we got it right this time!” Of course Chris Sabat and co are well aware the Z dub is largely shit compared to Kai and even Super but they’re not going to openly say it.

At the end of the day it doesn’t matter. The Z dub is still a best seller and it’s not worth the time or money to redub it. Kai just happened to present them with an opportunity to “get it right this time”

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by LostTimeLord » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:46 am

precita wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:22 pm It's weird now because not only does Kai exist but also Super, and some people will watch the old DBZ dub and go directly to Super
Even for the dub there was a 14 year gap between Z and Super, so I think most viewers would expect inconsistencies like that, particularly as they'd also see a switch from cell to digital animation.

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by precita » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:12 am

Isn't FUNI owned by Sony? I mean they're a million dollar company, this isn't 1999 anymore when they were scraping to get by. They license dozens of anime every year.

It's mind blowing they wouldn't be able to fund a DBZ redub. And as said think of this long term. Dragonball Z is an evergreen series that sells forever. They would have a new dub for a new generation of fans and they could sell that for the next 20 years.

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:27 am

precita wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:12 am Isn't FUNI owned by Sony? I mean they're a million dollar company, this isn't 1999 anymore when they were scraping to get by. They license dozens of anime every year.

It's mind blowing they wouldn't be able to fund a DBZ redub. And as said think of this long term. Dragonball Z is an evergreen series that sells forever. They would have a new dub for a new generation of fans and they could sell that for the next 20 years.
Again, it’s not that they can’t afford to redub the show it’s that there’s literally no reason to put that kind of money into re doing something that already sells. The current dub is still a big seller. You’re grossly overestimating how well a “this is is a faithful redub”’ would sell. The return isn’t worth the investment.

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by VanceRefrigeration » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:36 am

Just because a company can fund something, doesn't mean that they will. Everything is a cost-benefit analysis. So while a new dub might end up being profitable, they can make more money in less time by just doing a new cheap Blu-ray release. Ultimately, if they're ever deciding between making a little bit of money with a lot of effort vs. making a lot of money with minimal effort, they'll go with the latter every time.

Understand this: the goal of a company is to make money. If you start to view things with that framing, then a lot of decisions will begin to make more sense.

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:29 pm

precita wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:12 amIt's mind blowing they wouldn't be able to fund a DBZ redub. And as said think of this long term. Dragonball Z is an evergreen series that sells forever. They would have a new dub for a new generation of fans and they could sell that for the next 20 years.
Being able to afford it, as others mentioned, is not the issue. It's that they wouldn't make the money back.

Furthermore, as far as DBZ being an evergreen series that sells forever....does it, really? I would argue that the time in which any DBZ-related product automatically sells like hotcakes has passed. That's not to say they necessarily do poorly, but they're not a constant source of enormous cash. Let's consider...

-The fact that the "Level" sets had to be cancelled. If enough people bought them, they wouldn't have had to stop making them. Whatever that remastering process cost, FUNimation wasn't making their money back on it.

-The fact that FUNimation's Dragon Boxes for DBZ were only described as a limited-run DVD series after the fact.

-The fact that FUNimation didn't release Dragon Boxes for DB or GT. Or even the DBZ films.

-The fact that FUNimation said in the 20th Anniversary Release trailer that they would only make it if they received enough orders. This could be interpreted as being slightly more positive since they did apparently get enough orders...but that they even had to ask, rather than just going ahead and doing it, suggests uncertainty on FUNimation's part. Uncertainty that I guarantee you is backed up by sales data.

-The fact that...well, unfortunately I can't find it, but Chris Sabat and Justin Cook reportedly said that the Kai DVD/Blu-Rays didn't sell that well. This really hurts the idea that a new, more faithful dub would be a selling point. That was basically Kai's selling point, and it apparently wasn't enough.

So, DBZ will certainly still sell better than a lot of other anime series, but there's a plethora of evidence out there that it's not an eternal, reliable cash cow. As much as us fans love it, it's no longer the OMG-level phenomenon than it was back in the late 90's and early 2000's (for English-speaking audiences, I mean). Let me be clear, I would love a new dub and would buy it in a heartbeat. However, I've observed more than enough evidence to realize that I would be among the few who would. I have no reason to suspect that FUNimation would make their money back on it hiring actors, directors, script adapters, recording engineers, mixers, and DVD/Blu-Ray disc manufacturers for a re-dub of 290-plus episodes, thirteen movies, and two TV specials of a show that is no longer a "new" show. That's unfortunate, but FUNimation is a business, and businesses can only move forward on something if it would be financially profitable, and I don't blame FUNimation for not moving forward on something that would not be financially profitable.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by ABED » Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:50 pm

-The fact that FUNimation's Dragon Boxes for DBZ were only described as a limited-run DVD series after the fact.
Was it really? That was my understanding going in - it was a limited release. If no one could reach a fairly obvious conclusion that a release catering to an audience for the original Japanese version to the point that Japanese is the default language of the DVD, shouldn't be shocked that it was a limited release. It was catering to a niche audience.

But I agree, redubbing DBZ would be a massive waste of time and money.
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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:22 pm

The Dragon Boxes came out almost immediately after the Orange Bricks, slapped the English audio as an afterthought (to the point the NEP plays in Japanese even with the English audio being selected) and were to my understanding always pretty pricey even before they went out of stock. Like “Rock The Dragon” they were always meant to be a limited edition collectors set for the hardcore fans (albeit appealing to opposite ends of hardcore fans)

BlackPaladin brought up a really good point about the Level Sets though. Whatever remastering process Funimation was doing was deemed not worth the investment and were cancelled in favor of the Blue Ray season sets and that process would have been significantly cheaper than a redub.

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:24 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:26 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:43 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:37 pm


The problem with Kai is its a half ass recut of the show that uses badly placed Kikuchi music for the first series and generic modern shonen anime music for the second series.

I think the appeal of a redub of Z is getting the whole shebang. The garlic jr arc, the otherworld tournament, the Saiyan saga filler etc all 291 episodes with a faithful dub not a 167 recut of those episodes with mediocre use of music.

And I get the appeal of that but just aint happening. Slapping the original Japanese soundtrack on the dub was the extent of the effort Funimation will put in to bringing the Z dun closer to the Japanese version.
In terms of the Saiyan filler, the UUE dub doesn’t do too bad a job with that stuff, at least when it comes to the stuff that was cut from the syndicated dub. As for the Garlic Jr. arc, meh. FUNimation already did a partial redub of that with the season sets, and while I don’t despise the Garlic Jr. filler, I don’t think there’s much of a loss in that not getting a “proper” dub.
The partial redub of the Garlic Jr was just Kyle Hebert redubbing Dale Kelly as narrator, New voices for Maron, Mustard, and Spice (for some reason? I never got this) and Sabat redubbing Vegeta’s few scenes nothing about it was really any different than how it aired in 2000 still as shit as it was back then (not surprising since Garlic Jr was part of season 3’s episode order in the original broadcast)


Obviously if you’re fine with Kai removing all the extra stuff (well most of it...er half of it for Boo) than Kai is more than serviceable for a good dub but for fans wanting to see all of DBZ redubbed faithfully? Kai’s dub is a consolation prize at best.
Does anyone legitimately care about the Garlic Jr. filler enough that they think it would be worth sitting through a brand new dub of it?

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by Planetnamek » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:15 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:29 pm
precita wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:12 amIt's mind blowing they wouldn't be able to fund a DBZ redub. And as said think of this long term. Dragonball Z is an evergreen series that sells forever. They would have a new dub for a new generation of fans and they could sell that for the next 20 years.
Being able to afford it, as others mentioned, is not the issue. It's that they wouldn't make the money back.

Furthermore, as far as DBZ being an evergreen series that sells forever....does it, really? I would argue that the time in which any DBZ-related product automatically sells like hotcakes has passed. That's not to say they necessarily do poorly, but they're not a constant source of enormous cash. Let's consider...

-The fact that the "Level" sets had to be cancelled. If enough people bought them, they wouldn't have had to stop making them. Whatever that remastering process cost, FUNimation wasn't making their money back on it.

-The fact that FUNimation's Dragon Boxes for DBZ were only described as a limited-run DVD series after the fact.

-The fact that FUNimation didn't release Dragon Boxes for DB or GT. Or even the DBZ films.

-The fact that FUNimation said in the 20th Anniversary Release trailer that they would only make it if they received enough orders. This could be interpreted as being slightly more positive since they did apparently get enough orders...but that they even had to ask, rather than just going ahead and doing it, suggests uncertainty on FUNimation's part. Uncertainty that I guarantee you is backed up by sales data.

-The fact that...well, unfortunately I can't find it, but Chris Sabat and Justin Cook reportedly said that the Kai DVD/Blu-Rays didn't sell that well. This really hurts the idea that a new, more faithful dub would be a selling point. That was basically Kai's selling point, and it apparently wasn't enough.

So, DBZ will certainly still sell better than a lot of other anime series, but there's a plethora of evidence out there that it's not an eternal, reliable cash cow. As much as us fans love it, it's no longer the OMG-level phenomenon than it was back in the late 90's and early 2000's (for English-speaking audiences, I mean). Let me be clear, I would love a new dub and would buy it in a heartbeat. However, I've observed more than enough evidence to realize that I would be among the few who would. I have no reason to suspect that FUNimation would make their money back on it hiring actors, directors, script adapters, recording engineers, mixers, and DVD/Blu-Ray disc manufacturers for a re-dub of 290-plus episodes, thirteen movies, and two TV specials of a show that is no longer a "new" show. That's unfortunate, but FUNimation is a business, and businesses can only move forward on something if it would be financially profitable, and I don't blame FUNimation for not moving forward on something that would not be financially profitable.
I heard the opposite about the Level Sets, that they were actually selling better then expected but Funi didn't like the notion that they might take sales away from the season sets.

Also I heard a theory on another thread that Funimation more or less did finish remastering all 291 episodes on that scale, they just didn't want to release them in that form as if people learned that the quality was much better then the season sets, then they would stop flying off the shelves and Funi didn't want that.

Also yeah a new redub probably wouldn't sell all that well, 4Kids tried that with a more faithful uncut dub for Yugioh and Shaman King and they sold OK but not well enough to justify more volumes. Funimation partnered with 4Kids on those uncut DVDs too, so they saw firsthand that a more faithful redub will only really appeal to a very niche group of fans, so why throw resources at making a new thing that only a tiny minority of fans will really care about?
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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:38 pm

Planetnamek wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:15 pm
I heard the opposite about the Level Sets, that they were actually selling better then expected but Funi didn't like the notion that they might take sales away from the season sets.
That doesn’t make any sense.

Also I heard a theory on another thread that Funimation more or less did finish remastering all 291 episodes on that scale, they just didn't want to release them in that form as if people learned that the quality was much better then the season sets, then they would stop flying off the shelves and Funi didn't want that.
Neither does that

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:43 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:50 pm
-The fact that FUNimation's Dragon Boxes for DBZ were only described as a limited-run DVD series after the fact.
Was it really? That was my understanding going in - it was a limited release.
FUNimation made no mention of that in their initial press release for them, though. Actually, their initial press release also mentioned that they had gotten the Dragon Box masters for the (DBZ) movies as well, and those still remain unreleased.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:49 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:43 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:50 pm
-The fact that FUNimation's Dragon Boxes for DBZ were only described as a limited-run DVD series after the fact.
Was it really? That was my understanding going in - it was a limited release.
FUNimation made no mention of that in their initial press release for them, though. Actually, their initial press release also mentioned that they had gotten the Dragon Box masters for the (DBZ) movies as well, and those still remain unreleased.
Weren't they actually planning to do a "Dragon Box: The Movies" release at some point like perhaps after the Z Boxes were done coming out? Or maybe at least considering it then ultimately deciding not to because their own remastered versions were released not long before then, as the steelbook Double Feature sets had already been all out on store shelves by that point.

Not sure what happened there, but then again it doesn't make sense why they decided not to release them if they've got the movie's masters.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:56 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:49 pm
TheBlackPaladin wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:43 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:50 pm Was it really? That was my understanding going in - it was a limited release.
FUNimation made no mention of that in their initial press release for them, though. Actually, their initial press release also mentioned that they had gotten the Dragon Box masters for the (DBZ) movies as well, and those still remain unreleased.
Not sure what happened there...but then again it doesn't make sense why they decided not to release them if they've got the movie's masters.
There are only two possible explanations I can think of. One is that they made an error when they mentioned they had the movies, which, while possible, doesn’t strike me as likely. The other, more feasible explanation – – in my opinion, anyway – – is that they thought the Dragon Boxes would sell more than they actually did, described them as “limited run” once they realized they weren’t selling that well, and nixed plans that they had to release the movies.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:03 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:56 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:49 pm
TheBlackPaladin wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:43 pm

FUNimation made no mention of that in their initial press release for them, though. Actually, their initial press release also mentioned that they had gotten the Dragon Box masters for the (DBZ) movies as well, and those still remain unreleased.
Not sure what happened there...but then again it doesn't make sense why they decided not to release them if they've got the movie's masters.
There are only two possible explanations I can think of. One is that they made an error when they mentioned they had the movies, which, while possible, doesn’t strike me as likely. The other, more feasible explanation – – in my opinion, anyway – – is that they thought the Dragon Boxes would more than they actually did, described them as “limited run” once they realize they weren’t selling that well, and nixed plans that they had to release the movies.
I mean, it could be possible that an error was made on that press release and FUNi didn't really have the masters for the movies. Or it also could be that they did actually get copies of them from Toei but the Z DBoxes weren't quite meeting the sales numbers (though we don't know exactly how well or not they did from 2009-2011 during the original release) prior to their announcement as being limited thus there's a chance that could have happened so they decided not to bother with it. Again, it's just theories since we can't verify for certain what actually went down at the time.

Also, i saw the part mentioned above where the dub's inclusion on the Dragon Boxes was said to have been an afterthought, though i really didn't figure FUNi would do a sub only release here because it's effectively been bilingual for all of the series' releases since 2000 barring that period of a few years where they were still doing the edited and uncut VHS versions (at least until VHS as a format was basically on the verge of being dead) but singular language DVD's pretty much ended for good with the handful of movie singles that were released in edited form.
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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by ABED » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:31 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:43 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:50 pm
-The fact that FUNimation's Dragon Boxes for DBZ were only described as a limited-run DVD series after the fact.
Was it really? That was my understanding going in - it was a limited release.
FUNimation made no mention of that in their initial press release for them, though. Actually, their initial press release also mentioned that they had gotten the Dragon Box masters for the (DBZ) movies as well, and those still remain unreleased.
It was a given that it was limited. Why would a high priced set with different episode titles that defaults to a foreign language be anything other than a limited release?
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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:57 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:31 pmIt was a given that it was limited. Why would a high priced set with different episode titles that defaults to a foreign language be anything other than a limited release?
Not saying there isn't logic behind making it a limited release, but you'd think they would have said that from the get-go. Heck, calling it a "limited run" from the get-go would have been a wise sales tactic, as a niche audience was the target, so an effective way to increase demand for it with that in mind would have been a, "But hurry and buy now, they're only available for a limited time!"-type commercial.

In other words, making them a limited run in and of itself isn't suspicious, but what is suspicious is that they didn't mention this right from the start. Couple that with the initial announcement mentioning that they had the movies too--which we never got--and one can't help but wonder if the Dragon Boxes weren't initially intended to be a limited run.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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Re: I still don't get why FUNI never redubbed DBZ from start to finish

Post by ABED » Sat Sep 26, 2020 4:07 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:57 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:31 pmIt was a given that it was limited. Why would a high priced set with different episode titles that defaults to a foreign language be anything other than a limited release?
Not saying there isn't logic behind making it a limited release, but you'd think they would have said that from the get-go. Heck, calling it a "limited run" from the get-go would have been a wise sales tactic, as a niche audience was the target, so an effective way to increase demand for it with that in mind would have been a, "But hurry and buy now, they're only available for a limited time!"-type commercial.

In other words, making them a limited run in and of itself isn't suspicious, but what is suspicious is that they didn't mention this right from the start. Couple that with the initial announcement mentioning that they had the movies too--which we never got--and one can't help but wonder if the Dragon Boxes weren't initially intended to be a limited run.
It was. There was no way it wasn't. Why would they want a competing release on the same format? If I recall the marketing was all about hardcore fans which doesn't require it to explicitly say it's a limited release. That's a given.
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