A Change of Heart

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SuperSaiyaManZ94
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:49 pm

Young's Freeza didn't strike me as sadistic either, i mean it was a miscast made based from the previous miscasting with the Ocean VA who is also a woman due to their personal interpretation of Freeza based on his design back in the day. The cringe tastic dialogue they had her spouting left and right was just the cherry on top and her voice just plain didn't fit who the character actually is.

Seriously, the differences between Young and Ayre's takes are night and day. Ayres just captures the essence of Nakao's Freeza so much more effectively.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jCxsixkFc9M&t=32s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0s35CBPBPQ4

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_JvyTyqadVA
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:37 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:19 pm I’m at a loss at what made Young’s Freeza’s humor “sadistic” it was nothing but a lot of really dumb quips oh and the occasional homosexual undertone
My favorite Young Frieza line is when he says "Pop goes the weasel" after killing Krillin
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:46 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:37 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:19 pm I’m at a loss at what made Young’s Freeza’s humor “sadistic” it was nothing but a lot of really dumb quips oh and the occasional homosexual undertone
My favorite Young Frieza line is when he says "Pop goes the weasel" after killing Krillin
I'd say the lines that make me laugh the most are "Ok big boy...whatever turns you on" and "RIDE EM COWBOY!!!!" because of how utterly ridiculous it is to have that character with that voice saying them. :lol:
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:28 pm

As for a character who I started to think of differently with time, it would be Roshi. For a long time I was only familiar with Z-era Roshi, where he's rarely contributes anything except for the occasional cheap gag about him being a crotchety old perv or as a vehicle for exposition.

But when I re-discovered Dragon Ball and watched through from the beginning, I can appreciate him much more now. Those moments in OG DB where they hit a good balance between him being a total sleaze and an actual wise martial arts mentor are so nice. In Super especially I got the feeling that at times they were trying to regain that balance so he wasn't just a one note gag character.
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:26 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:19 pm I’m at a loss at what made Young’s Freeza’s humor “sadistic” it was nothing but a lot of really dumb quips oh and the occasional homosexual undertone
I think I just find it hilarious that it exists in the first place. Sadistic was a stretch...but mainly I was trying to keep the thread on track when I had it get on the topic of the Freeza voice actors lol. I enjoy Young's Frieza mostly from a camp standpoint, not much more.
Last edited by Demon Prince Piccolo on Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Sep 27, 2020 9:35 pm

Is there a version of Freeza who isn’t a sadist?

I guess I’d say that I used to not care one bit about Yamcha, but these days, I find myself wishing that the writers could throw him a bone or two. His status as the biggest punching bag in the entire franchise is just unnecessary at this point.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:07 pm

Another aspect for me that I'd say has changed is Broly. For the longest time, I hated the character in Z. I felt his power was overrated by the fanbase (it is), and I felt that he had no real depth to him. After the Super Broly film (a movie in which I enjoyed Broly's character, albeit he's an entirely different character), I went back to Z Broly. While I'm still not a massive fan of him, I particularly appreciate the menace of his voice acting and the dialogue in the original Japanese. And he was scary, right down to his design (which I've always been a fan of). So I'd say I've gained a better appreciation for Z Broly.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by ABED » Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:13 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:07 pm Another aspect for me that I'd say has changed is Broly. For the longest time, I hated the character in Z. I felt his power was overrated by the fanbase (it is), and I felt that he had no real depth to him. After the Super Broly film (a movie in which I enjoyed Broly's character, albeit he's an entirely different character), I went back to Z Broly. While I'm still not a massive fan of him, I particularly appreciate the menace of his voice acting and the dialogue in the original Japanese. And he was scary, right down to his design (which I've always been a fan of). So I'd say I've gained a better appreciation for Z Broly.
He still has no depth. Childhood abuse isn't depth. Besides, I think people underrate a flat but effective character.
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:13 am

ABED wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:13 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 10:07 pm Another aspect for me that I'd say has changed is Broly. For the longest time, I hated the character in Z. I felt his power was overrated by the fanbase (it is), and I felt that he had no real depth to him. After the Super Broly film (a movie in which I enjoyed Broly's character, albeit he's an entirely different character), I went back to Z Broly. While I'm still not a massive fan of him, I particularly appreciate the menace of his voice acting and the dialogue in the original Japanese. And he was scary, right down to his design (which I've always been a fan of). So I'd say I've gained a better appreciation for Z Broly.
He still has no depth. Childhood abuse isn't depth. Besides, I think people underrate a flat but effective character.
My main point wasn't so much that Super Broly had depth. It was that, despite me liking him more overall, he made me go back and re-evaluate the original Broly. And since they decided to make Super Broly a sympathetic character, I gained more of an appreciation for just how evil the original Broly was. He's still not my favorite, but I think he's effective, like you said.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Mon Sep 28, 2020 12:28 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 8:28 pm As for a character who I started to think of differently with time, it would be Roshi. For a long time I was only familiar with Z-era Roshi, where he's rarely contributes anything except for the occasional cheap gag about him being a crotchety old perv or as a vehicle for exposition.

But when I re-discovered Dragon Ball and watched through from the beginning, I can appreciate him much more now. Those moments in OG DB where they hit a good balance between him being a total sleaze and an actual wise martial arts mentor are so nice. In Super especially I got the feeling that at times they were trying to regain that balance so he wasn't just a one note gag character.
You know what? I have to also echo this! I'm reading the manga (all of what makes up the material from the beginning through the 23rd Budokai), and I must say I didn't find the pervy-ness to be the predominant trait of his character like I expected to. There are so many moments that show what he truly is about when it comes to martial arts. My absolute favorite is all of his interactions with Tenshinhan during the 22nd and how he makes him rethink his whole life purpose and ultimately turn. It was so effectively done.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Planetnamek » Mon Sep 28, 2020 1:55 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:37 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:19 pm I’m at a loss at what made Young’s Freeza’s humor “sadistic” it was nothing but a lot of really dumb quips oh and the occasional homosexual undertone
My favorite Young Frieza line is when he says "Pop goes the weasel" after killing Krillin
Yeah that and the "Backscratcher" bit were my faves.
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:46 pm

Jiren, ironically.

Despite sounding like a pretty flat character when I first heard about him, he's grown on me a little as a concept since he genuinely represents something new for a major Dragon Ball antagonist (something I've always given Zamasu credit for): An anti-hero who on paper is supposed to be an outright superhero and has the reputation of such, but is also a bit of an asshole that tends to ride the line between hero and villain (I'm referring to his anime personality, I know his manga counterpart has a more outright heroic personality; but he sounds like a less interesting version of the character to me due to being more of a straightforward hero). He's the closest to a "hero antagonist" type-character Dragon Ball has had.

Since the op didn't say we can't do changes of heart in the opposite direction: I don't like Cell as a character as much as I used to. I still think his appearance is well-designed, but as an actual character, I now find him pretty bland and generic.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:23 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Tue Sep 29, 2020 12:46 pm Jiren, ironically.

Despite sounding like a pretty flat character when I first heard about him, he's grown on me a little as a concept since he genuinely represents something new for a major Dragon Ball antagonist (something I've always given Zamasu credit for): An anti-hero who on paper is supposed to be an outright superhero and has the reputation of such, but is also a bit of an asshole that tends to ride the line between hero and villain (I'm referring to his anime personality, I know his manga counterpart has a more outright heroic personality; but he sounds like a less interesting version of the character to me due to being more of a straightforward hero). He's the closest to a "hero antagonist" type-character Dragon Ball has had.
I agree, but I think the anime should have at least established Jiren's status as a hero first like in the manga before subverting it by showing how much of a selfish asshole he really is. The anime doesn't really establish anything remotely heroic about Jiren besides the fact that he's part of a superhero team. They needed more "show" rather than "tell". On the same token, I feel that the manga could have included more signs of Jiren's callous personality, I only really remember that one scene where he refuses to help Toppo and Dyspo when they're stuck on an island far away from the arena, which was cold af but that's about it. The anime goes maybe a bit far with the villainous moments but at least emphasises that unpleasant side to his personality.

I wish there was a perfect combo of both takes, having the gravitas of the anime version as well as the more heroic qualities of the manga version.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:31 pm

Warm up to the Cell Arc, if just a bit. I used to despise the arc as a whole, now I just feel indifferent torwards it with some entertaining beats in certain spots.
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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Tue Sep 29, 2020 1:53 pm

I've posted a lot on this topic already, but another one I'll have to say is Dragon Ball GT. Let the games begin.

For the longest time I felt I disliked GT, even though I only caught a handful of episodes (and these were from the English dub with the US soundtrack). The widely-accepted public opinion throughout the fanbase Is "GT is trash," so even when I first heard the Japanese OP "Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku" and found myself loving it, I was reluctant to watch GT.

Earlier this year during summer (since I was working less hours due to COVID, I finally sat down with my green bricks). And yes, the Black Star Saga is ROUGH. However, I found myself still enjoying aspects of it in spite of myself, like the (poorly-executed) throwback to the adventurous tone of OG Dragon Ball, Pan as a clear picture of the future generation, the different looks/designs certain characters had to show that time had passed.... Fortunately, although not absent of problems, the Baby Saga was a vast improvement over the series' first arc, and I loved that Baby was a villain that was tied back to the Saiyans. He's definitely one of my favorite Dragon Ball villains as a whole. I especially liked seeing the evil Bulma that was possessed by Baby.

Oh course, the series Also has my favorite Saiyan transformation with SSJ4, at least in concept and design. And even though GT gets flack for being Goku Time, I LOVE the characterization of Goku in GT, even with him being a kid (something else I hated at first that I've grown to appreciate). Despite being physically younger, you really get the sense that Goku is wiser and more powerful than ever before (another reason I enjoy when he fights Freeza and Cell in hell. And of course, the OG Japanese score/soundtrack is magnificent, as is the series ending. I also love the idea of overusing the Dragon Balls having repercussions.

The series is riddled with issues, but there's a handful of things about it that I prefer to Super. So that would be my last pick.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by ZeroNeonix » Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:03 pm

As a kid, I hated Chi-Chi. I still don't like her, but I find her a little more bearable now that I understand her a bit better. I understand it's a mother's job to protect her children, so of course she isn't going to be big on the idea of letting her children fight to the death with a dangerous monster to save the world. Even though she seems to do a 180 with Goten... Training him after she had kept Gohan in to study, and allowing him to fight Buu.

But what continues to annoy me today is how she's constantly getting in the way of Goku's training. Even after Hercule gives her family a ton of money, she pretends to have spent it all so she can tell Goku to work and be a "good example" for their grandchild. lolwut? Seriously, Chi-Chi, what are you doing? This guy has been the only thing standing between Earth and total destruction countless times, and you're going to let him get rusty? Your grandchildren aren't going to care what he does for a living.

I also used to hate Hercule, but he's grown on me. It initially irritated me that Gohan saved the world, and Hercule took all the credit. Now, it's comical how blissfully unaware Earthlings are of the dangers that surround them, and Hercule is the one that allows them to keep on living like their entire planet can't be destroyed by forces outside their control at any moment. Although Super kinda defeated the purpose of his role, when Hercule told them he transformed into a god to defeat Beerus.

Now, there's not really a character I hate. But there are some I think could definitely be done better. Goten, Trunks (present), Hercule, Videl. Basically, the only character I think has improved since Super started is Vegeta.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by UI Peter » Mon Oct 05, 2020 2:47 am

I use to think Mr. Satan was a trash character and that GT was 100% garbage.

But know I see Mr. Satan as the 2nd best written character of the Buu saga (and top 5 of all of Z), and I see GT was a series was lots of great ideas with bad execution.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by Scientist Fu » Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:35 am

Not really... I've never loathed any character in the whole franchise. But I kind of had a change of heart about Muten Rōshi, Tien and Zamasu, not that I loathed them or anything but just that I wasn't interested in them at first.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by UI Peter » Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:27 am

coola wrote: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:15 pm Change for worse can also be included? If yes, then i would add Goku and Vegeta:
- They never learn from their mistakes and arrogance
- Once again, in Super, they play off Goku stupidity and Vegeta whining about pride way too much.
- Their overpower goes against early DB philosophy "If you train, you can overcome every obstacle" nowadays, you should add "..but only if you were born a Saiyan"
- I can see DBS Goku but how DBS Vegeta? When has Vegeta ever "whined" about pride in Super? And outside of his 1st fight with Hit, when has he ever made a dumb arrogance driven dumb mistake in Super, let alone multiple times? Your complain doesn't make any sense.

- "Their overpower goes against early DB philosophy "If you train, you can overcome every obstacle" nowadays, you should add "..but only if you were born a Saiyan""

This is a nonsensical complaint. 1st of all, the only character in Early DB written with the notion of "you can overcome anything with training" is Goku (the rest of the hero cast's training was never shown to have a meaningful impact on the story). 2nd, training actually had less of an impact in Early DB than in Z onward. Goku takes training more seriously as an adult than he ever did as a kid, and Vegeta trains even more than that.

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Re: A Change of Heart

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:15 pm

Never hated a character as a kid but I wasn't fond of Freeza or Mr. Satan. The former because of the dub and the latter due to the Cell Games.

As I got older, I saw Freeza as the best villain of the franchise and the Boo arc redeemed Mr. Satan in my eyes as it did many.

However, growing up I grew to hate East Kaioshin for reasons I don't want to get into.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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