Would you say that GT is more or less liked nowadays?

[ABED]

This isn't a discussion about how good those stories were, just about the environments in themselves.

The tournament of power - also a tournament.

Does it really matter that the location got more destroyed as time went on, if it was never really an interesting location to begin with?

Not if you don't think it doesn't. I however think it's good visual storytelling.

[Mad Swami]

This isn't a discussion about how good those stories were, just about the environments in themselves.

The tournament of power - also a tournament.

Fair, but the story matters for these enviorments. The ring of the Tenkaichi was enjoyable to look at and had more to lean on. The T.O.P is too dark and bland. It lacks any originality and only grows interesting near the end with the purple sky. Plus there is not many(if any) good story or character moments to make me forgive it. If the story is good and doing things the environment is something I can tolerate more.

[ABED]

This isn't a discussion about how good those stories were, just about the environments in themselves.

The tournament of power - also a tournament.

Fair, but the story matters for these enviorments. The ring of the Tenkaichi was enjoyable to look at and had more to lean on. The T.O.P is too dark and bland. It lacks any originality and only grows interesting near the end with the purple sky. Plus there is not many(if any) good story or character moments to make me forgive it. If the story is good and doing things the environment is something I can tolerate more.

Sure and Namek's bland changeless environment hurts it after a while.

I liked the TOP ring and felt the sinking column was an interesting feature.

The Tenkaichi ring was enjoyable to look at? It's a white square.

[Mad Swami]

This isn't a discussion about how good those stories were, just about the environments in themselves.

The tournament of power - also a tournament.

Fair, but the story matters for these enviorments. The ring of the Tenkaichi was enjoyable to look at and had more to lean on. The T.O.P is too dark and bland. It lacks any originality and only grows interesting near the end with the purple sky. Plus there is not many(if any) good story or character moments to make me forgive it. If the story is good and doing things the environment is something I can tolerate more.

Sure and Namek's bland changeless environment hurts it after a while.

I liked the TOP ring and felt the sinking column was an interesting feature.

The Tenkaichi ring was enjoyable to look at? It's a white square.

I could see that but I think it was good at not growing boring for me

Sure that detail is nice. Thats it though. Everything else is about is just ugly. The sky and the floor were so drab and offered nothing to the fights.

It's a white square... there is also the crowed, the palm trees, the pretty sky, it's a cozy enviorment that perfectly accommodates the story.

[LoganForkHands73]

I always liked the Tournament of Power arena, it's certainly different from the majority of plain square Budokai arenas throughout Dragon Ball and compliments the battle royale premise well. Plus the overall design of it feels appropriate -- it looks like a spinning top toy floating in space. That basically represents how the mortals stand in Zeno's game. However, one thing that always annoys me is how inconsistently sized it is between episodes. Like, the arena should be pretty massive, but some early anime episodes show characters standing on the ledge and there being a visible curve beneath their feet, making it look tiny.

The manga version makes a few blunders in presentation but they are mitigated somewhat by the arc being much more concise. However, I still dislike how small and barren the arena is portrayed all throughout. The anime version at least changed substantially across the arc as the combatants wear it down, going from a flat even surface in the beginning to a pile of floating rubble by the end. The dynamics of fights changes completely as characters adapt to now being able to hide among the rocks and strategise better.

Namek is basically "ideal Toriyama fighting location" as a whole planet. No cities, no night time, just an endless empty wasteland. However, the grasslands and rivers help to make it feel slightly more diverse and relatable than the typical scorched desert canyons where fights are typically staged on Earth, ironically. Namek did end up becoming boring and monotonous but I can see the appeal to it as a location. It's hard to explain, but have you ever wandered around some scenic woodlands or fields and had thought "something important could have happened here and no one would know". That's basically what the whole of Namek feels like. It's this utterly ordinary, backwater place that happens to be the battleground for an epic showdown between godlike aliens.

[ABED]

I always liked the Tournament of Power arena, it's certainly different from the majority of plain square Budokai arenas throughout Dragon Ball and compliments the battle royale premise well. Plus the overall design of it feels appropriate -- it looks like a spinning top toy floating in space. That basically represents how the mortals stand in Zeno's game. However, one thing that always annoys me is how inconsistently sized it is between episodes. Like, the arena should be pretty massive, but some early anime episodes show characters standing on the ledge and there being a visible curve beneath their feet, making it look tiny.

The manga version makes a few blunders in presentation but they are mitigated somewhat by the arc being much more concise. However, I still dislike how small and barren the arena is portrayed all throughout. The anime version at least changed substantially across the arc as the combatants wear it down, going from a flat even surface in the beginning to a pile of floating rubble by the end. The dynamics of fights changes completely as characters adapt to now being able to hide among the rocks and strategise better.

Namek is basically "ideal Toriyama fighting location" as a whole planet. No cities, no night time, just an endless empty wasteland. However, the grasslands and rivers help to make it feel slightly more diverse and relatable than the typical scorched desert canyons where fights are typically staged on Earth, ironically. Namek did end up becoming boring and monotonous but I can see the appeal to it as a location. It's hard to explain, but have you ever wandered around some scenic woodlands or fields and had thought "something important could have happened here and no one would know". That's basically what the whole of Namek feels like. It's this utterly ordinary, backwater place that happens to be the battleground for an epic showdown between godlike aliens.

This, and the touch of it being the shape of a child's toy is a nice bit of visual storytelling.

[Mad Swami]

I always liked the Tournament of Power arena, it's certainly different from the majority of plain square Budokai arenas throughout Dragon Ball and compliments the battle royale premise well. Plus the overall design of it feels appropriate -- it looks like a spinning top toy floating in space. That basically represents how the mortals stand in Zeno's game. However, one thing that always annoys me is how inconsistently sized it is between episodes. Like, the arena should be pretty massive, but some early anime episodes show characters standing on the ledge and there being a visible curve beneath their feet, making it look tiny.

The manga version makes a few blunders in presentation but they are mitigated somewhat by the arc being much more concise. However, I still dislike how small and barren the arena is portrayed all throughout. The anime version at least changed substantially across the arc as the combatants wear it down, going from a flat even surface in the beginning to a pile of floating rubble by the end. The dynamics of fights changes completely as characters adapt to now being able to hide among the rocks and strategise better.

Namek is basically "ideal Toriyama fighting location" as a whole planet. No cities, no night time, just an endless empty wasteland. However, the grasslands and rivers help to make it feel slightly more diverse and relatable than the typical scorched desert canyons where fights are typically staged on Earth, ironically. Namek did end up becoming boring and monotonous but I can see the appeal to it as a location. It's hard to explain, but have you ever wandered around some scenic woodlands or fields and had thought "something important could have happened here and no one would know". That's basically what the whole of Namek feels like. It's this utterly ordinary, backwater place that happens to be the battleground for an epic showdown between godlike aliens.

I think the T.O.P ring isn't fun or visually stimulating. Only near the end when some verticality is added a new element that's a bit differen't due to the flying rule. Howeve aside from that I see no difference from it and Namek. Except Namek is nice to look at and has things going on around it.

[LoganForkHands73]

I think the T.O.P ring isn't fun or visually stimulating. Only near the end when some verticality is added a new element that's a bit differen't due to the flying rule. Howeve aside from that I see no difference from it and Namek. Except Namek is nice to look at and has things going on around it.

Fair enough, it's not for everyone, I was just giving my perspective on things.

[Mad Swami]

I think the T.O.P ring isn't fun or visually stimulating. Only near the end when some verticality is added a new element that's a bit differen't due to the flying rule. Howeve aside from that I see no difference from it and Namek. Except Namek is nice to look at and has things going on around it.

Fair enough, it's not for everyone, I was just giving my perspective on things.

totally fair

[ABED]

Namek is the same thing for 60 episodes. Nice to look at or not, it's the same thing. It's like a song having the same chorus and verse for hours. After a while it gets tiring to listen to. The TOP ring looks progressively worse every episode.

[Mad Swami]

Namek is the same thing for 60 episodes. Nice to look at or not, it's the same thing. It's like a song having the same chorus and verse for hours. After a while it gets tiring to listen to. The TOP ring looks progressively worse every episode.

But it only starts to take interesting shape when the sky turns purple. The whole ring just looks like every "Toriyama ideal battleground" just drab and boring. Good idea, executed poorly.

[ABED]

Namek is the same thing for 60 episodes. Nice to look at or not, it's the same thing. It's like a song having the same chorus and verse for hours. After a while it gets tiring to listen to. The TOP ring looks progressively worse every episode.

But it only starts to take interesting shape when the sky turns purple. The whole ring just looks like every "Toriyama ideal battleground" just drab and boring. Good idea, executed poorly.

And Namek starts off interesting and then becomes monotonous. The TOP ring changes over time and provides for different strategies and things of that nature over the course of the battle.

[WittyUsername]

Toriyama isn’t good with having the characters fight in interesting locations in general. He tends to default to just having the fights take place in generic rocky areas, and while the Tournament of Power ring technically isn’t that, it does somewhat evoke that vibe. Even Namek, while a distinct looking setting, apparently only has a single terrain, just like a Star Wars planet.

[Mad Swami]

Namek is the same thing for 60 episodes. Nice to look at or not, it's the same thing. It's like a song having the same chorus and verse for hours. After a while it gets tiring to listen to. The TOP ring looks progressively worse every episode.

But it only starts to take interesting shape when the sky turns purple. The whole ring just looks like every "Toriyama ideal battleground" just drab and boring. Good idea, executed poorly.

And Namek starts off interesting and then becomes monotonous. The TOP ring changes over time and provides for different strategies and things of that nature over the course of the battle.

Disagree. The T.O.P ring never provided anything new.

[despayeeto593]

Yeah. It's way more liked now. I remember I used to browse old DB forums and there was so much GT hate. There's way less GT hate now.
I partially attribute that to Super showing how much worse it could have been, as well as people going back and watching the sub version, instead of the awful GT dub.

[precita]

Toriyama isn’t good with having the characters fight in interesting locations in general. He tends to default to just having the fights take place in generic rocky areas, and while the Tournament of Power ring technically isn’t that, it does somewhat evoke that vibe. Even Namek, while a distinct looking setting, apparently only has a single terrain, just like a Star Wars planet.

Not really true, all the sagas had fights on different battlegrounds before. Sure we get the rocky/mountain areas a ton, but every saga had a fight in a new location. The fact that the Boo arc has a fight inside the time chamber (Gotenks/Boo), on Babidi's ship while transported to different planets, then the final fight on the Supreme Kai planet were all fun and new locations.

But yeah we get the rocky/mountain area a lot, but where else can they really fight without causing harm to civilians? It's why they always fight away from people while on Earth.

[SupremeKai25]

But it would also make sense for Goku and Vegeta to attempt to relocate the fight. When they have the power to, they never try.

1) They never have the power to do so, Black and Zamasu are always one step ahead. Even when Vegeta seemingly defeats Black, the latter easily regains the upper hand.

2) When they relocate the fight, it's because they want to spare civilians. But the future city has already been wrecked, the vast majority of its people massacred, so there really is no point in relocating to a safer place.

[Skar]

I doubt most anime look as good as this:

It depends what you consider most because I'm not sure if most of Super's quality would be considered above average. I haven't watched a lot of anime but I can't remember any I've seen that looked as bad as Super at its worst. I'm there they exist but they're the type that no one would recommend and don't have brand recognition to support them.

Since I haven't seen a lot of anime, I've looked through several "best of the decade" lists in order to find recommendations that are frequently mentioned. The only top 10 I've seen DBS appear in was best anime fights and it was only the final battle of the ToP. Toei said they went over their budget and double the frames so that might've helped it compare to others on the list. These are all subjective of course but our opinions might favor DB while these are from more general anime fans.

[SupremeKai25]

I doubt most anime look as good as this:

It depends what you consider most because I'm not sure if most of Super's quality would be considered above average. I haven't watched a lot of anime but I can't remember any I've seen that looked as bad as Super at its worst. I'm there they exist but they're the type that no one would recommend and don't have brand recognition to support them.

Since I haven't seen a lot of anime, I've looked through several "best of the decade" lists in order to find recommendations that are frequently mentioned. The only top 10 I've seen DBS appear in was best anime fights and it was only the final battle of the ToP. Toei said they went over their budget and double the frames so that might've helped it compare to others on the list. These are all subjective of course but our opinions might favor DB while these are from more general anime fans.

Yes, early Super looks like trash. The producers wanted to quickly capitalize on the movies' overwhelming success and didn't take much time to make Super. However, Super greatly improved by the time of the U6 arc. The original arcs of Super don't look nearly as bad as the retellings... in fact, they don't look bad at all. The Future Trunks and ToP arcs look very good and definitely above your average anime.

I can assure you that the Moro arc will look like the Vegito vs. Zamasu fight or the ToP major fights, and not like episode 5. Those days are long gone. Mistakes can happen, but what matters is that the producers rectified those mistakes midway through Super.

[MCDaveG]

Everyone is telling how Super nailed the fights... But Beerus, Ressurection F and Universe 6 arcs were so bad... GT at least had better production quality in this aspect. Future Trunks arc was a moment, where there are some interesting moments, but it looked bad overall and only in the Tournament Of Power, the series found itself and the fights and look of the show started to be good.

That's the aspect I really don't like about Super and it's even worse if you can watch the Beerus and Freeza movies on comparison.
Tough I liked the expansion on RoF in Super and think the movie is kind of shallow.