Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 43 - DBZ movie 2

[KBABZ]

I hope people read and appreciate this trivia because it takes me ALL AFTERNOON to do!

[MasenkoHA]

Re: The movie’s placement. Ostensibly it takes place a year after the Saiyan conflict given Shen Long’s summoning. Presumably Toei intended it as after Namek but the events on Namek push it out of continuity.

[ABED]

I still wonder why they released movie 3 before movie 2.

[ArmenianPepsi]

I still wonder why they released movie 3 before movie 2.

Perhaps they thought it was just the cooler movie, so pushed it out first

[WittyUsername]

Despite copying certain moments from the Saiyan saga (the henchmen that look like Saibamen and the fight against Dr. Wheelo having some obvious homages to the fight against Vegeta), this is definitely one of the more unique and out there movies of the DBZ era. It’s like something straight out of a b-movie from the 1950s. I’d like to think that this movie is where Toriyama got the inspiration for Dr. Gero, but as far as I know, there’s never been anything to confirm that.

[MasenkoHA]

I still wonder why they released movie 3 before movie 2.

Maybe since Funimation was producing a network friendly tv version they wanted to push it out sooner while the edited version was still on kids minds? “Hey you all saw the edited version on tv now buy the uncut version”

[MyVisionity]

Re: The movie’s placement. Ostensibly it takes place a year after the Saiyan conflict given Shen Long’s summoning. Presumably Toei intended it as after Namek but the events on Namek push it out of continuity.

I don't think that Toei was particularly concerned about the movies placement in continuity aside from what had recently aired in the tv series at the time. I doubt that they were looking ahead to Namek.

As for Shenlong's summoning, that happens in each of the first four Z movies so I think that's just there as a plot device.

At the time this movie aired, the manga was up to Gohan and Kuririn fighting Recoom where he breaks Gohan's neck. The anime was up to Kuririn and Dende starting off to the Grand Elder's, Vegeta slaughtering the Namekian village, and Nappa's victims arriving at Kaio's world.

I believe the manga was only up to Kuririn getting a power-up from the Grand Elder and Vegeta waking up in Freeza's ship after the first Zarbon fight. The anime was only up to Bulma, Kuririn and Gohan having just taken off into space and captured by those orphans.

[KBABZ]

Re: The movie’s placement. Ostensibly it takes place a year after the Saiyan conflict given Shen Long’s summoning. Presumably Toei intended it as after Namek but the events on Namek push it out of continuity.

As for Shenlong's summoning, that happens in each of the first four Z movies so I think that's just there as a plot device.

Yeah. While the Daizenshuu aren't exactly truth-bringers, they say that Movie 2 is after the Saiyan conflict, while Movies 3 and 4 are during Namek (with obvious problems regarding that). Luckily this actually works out really well because there's a three year gap between Goku first meeting Trunks and the arrival of the Androids.

At the time this movie aired, the manga was up to Gohan and Kuririn fighting Recoom where he breaks Gohan's neck. The anime was up to Kuririn and Dende starting off to the Grand Elder's, Vegeta slaughtering the Namekian village, and Nappa's victims arriving at Kaio's world.

I believe the manga was only up to Kuririn getting a power-up from the Grand Elder and Vegeta waking up in Freeza's ship after the first Zarbon fight. The anime was only up to Bulma, Kuririn and Gohan having just taken off into space and captured by those orphans.

I checked the dates on this using the main Kanzenshuu site so I'll defer to my own findings, haha.

[Matches Malone]

Perhaps they thought it was just the cooler movie, so pushed it out first

If they wanted to release the cooler movie first then the should've released the Cooler movie first. Did you see what I did there ? Cooler, as in Freeza's...you know what, never mind.

[ArmenianPepsi]

Re: The movie’s placement. Ostensibly it takes place a year after the Saiyan conflict given Shen Long’s summoning. Presumably Toei intended it as after Namek but the events on Namek push it out of continuity.

As for Shenlong's summoning, that happens in each of the first four Z movies so I think that's just there as a plot device.

Yeah. While the Daizenshuu aren't exactly truth-bringers, they say that Movie 2 is after the Saiyan conflict, while Movies 3 and 4 are during Namek (with obvious problems regarding that). Luckily this actually works out really well because there's a three year gap between Goku first meeting Trunks and the arrival of the Androids.

I think the first 3 movies are the easiest square pegs to fit in the round hole so to speak in regards of making some coherent timeline placement. Once Vegeta and Trunks are in the picture it really just falls apart.

[Danfun64]

Noticed that you mentioned the Big Green dub of this movie, one scene I can always remember from that version is when Bulma is asked "Who is the strongest in the world?", the actors manage to say "Son Goku" in 3 slightly different ways it's just strange.

Though my real biggest question will always be how on earth did "Piccolo" turn into "Big Green" in translation. Considering that they use literal translations for a lot of stuff, going so far to say "Saiya People" in their dub of Movie 3. I'm just dumbfounded.

"Saiya People" is from the Speedy dub, which never called Piccolo "Big Green" (IIRC they used "Piccoro" most of the time. However, the Movie 9 dub calls him "Uncle Motong".) The "Big Green" dub came from the French script, which among other things translated "Saiyajin"/"Saiyans" to "Space Warriors" , "Super Saiyajin"/"Super Saiyans" to "Super Warriors", "Piccolo" to "Satan Little-Heart", and "Mr. Satan" to "Hercule". The Big Green dub got its name from further changing Piccolo's name to "Big Green" from "Satan Little-Heart"... on the bright side Mr. Satan's name was restored (albeit pronounced in a somewhat unusual way that doesn't match the Japanese or standard English pronunciations).

[ArmenianPepsi]

Noticed that you mentioned the Big Green dub of this movie, one scene I can always remember from that version is when Bulma is asked "Who is the strongest in the world?", the actors manage to say "Son Goku" in 3 slightly different ways it's just strange.

Though my real biggest question will always be how on earth did "Piccolo" turn into "Big Green" in translation. Considering that they use literal translations for a lot of stuff, going so far to say "Saiya People" in their dub of Movie 3. I'm just dumbfounded.

"Saiya People" is from the Speedy dub, which never called Piccolo "Big Green" (IIRC they used "Piccoro" most of the time. However, the Movie 9 dub calls him "Uncle Motong".) The "Big Green" dub came from the French script, which among other things translated "Saiyajin"/"Saiyans" to "Space Warriors" , "Super Saiyajin"/"Super Saiyans" to "Super Warriors", "Piccolo" to "Satan Little-Heart", and "Mr. Satan" to "Hercule". The Big Green dub got its name from further changing Piccolo's name to "Big Green" from "Satan Little-Heart"... on the bright side Mr. Satan's name was restored (albeit pronounced in a somewhat unusual way that doesn't match the Japanese or standard English pronunciations).

Yeah I just remembered that, I goofed. Mixed up Big Green with Speedy on the "Saiya People" thing.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Noticed that you mentioned the Big Green dub of this movie, one scene I can always remember from that version is when Bulma is asked "Who is the strongest in the world?", the actors manage to say "Son Goku" in 3 slightly different ways it's just strange.

Though my real biggest question will always be how on earth did "Piccolo" turn into "Big Green" in translation. Considering that they use literal translations for a lot of stuff, going so far to say "Saiya People" in their dub of Movie 3. I'm just dumbfounded.

"Saiya People" is from the Speedy dub, which never called Piccolo "Big Green" (IIRC they used "Piccoro" most of the time. However, the Movie 9 dub calls him "Uncle Motong".) The "Big Green" dub came from the French script, which among other things translated "Saiyajin"/"Saiyans" to "Space Warriors" , "Super Saiyajin"/"Super Saiyans" to "Super Warriors", "Piccolo" to "Satan Little-Heart", and "Mr. Satan" to "Hercule". The Big Green dub got its name from further changing Piccolo's name to "Big Green" from "Satan Little-Heart"... on the bright side Mr. Satan's name was restored (albeit pronounced in a somewhat unusual way that doesn't match the Japanese or standard English pronunciations).

Yeah I just remembered that, I goofed. Mixed up Big Green with Speedy on the "Saiya People" thing.

For some reason they also have Gohan's name in Big Green spoken as Go-Han, with the han part of his name sounding like "hand" which is another one of those bizarre naming things as that's not how it's supposed to be pronounced when said in Japanese and English as we know it to be. I've found that to be one of the more amusing things about those dubs, because it was clearly some kind of script mistranslation or something.

[8000 Saiyan]

To this day, I find it hilarious that Dr. Wheelo wanted to put his giant brain on Goku's head. Seriously, that's one huge fucking brain!

Another hilarious thing about the Big Green dub is how the voice actor of Goku, David Gasman, actually at one point sounds uncanny close to Sean Schemmel. I gotta say, even if I find his voice to be unfitting for our favorite Saiyan, it's an enjoyable performance. I could say that most of the Big Green voice actors give hilarious performances, really. Bulma's voice actress Jodi Forrest often sounds like she's channeling Harley Quinn, and I like how Gasman's Oolong is the one who sounds the closest to Naoki Tatsuta. Doug Rand, who voices Garlic Jr, Cooler, Broly and Bojack, must have had a blast recording these dubs even if the performances aren't very good.

[KBABZ]

I think the first 3 movies are the easiest square pegs to fit in the round hole so to speak in regards of making some coherent timeline placement. Once Vegeta and Trunks are in the picture it really just falls apart.

I've been working on a sort of "Movieverse" Timeline document that tries to make a version of the manga/anime that allows the movies to happen. Here's a breakdown of how I've sorted it out thus far:

• The three Dragon Ball movies outright replace the first three arcs of OG-DB. The 22nd TB transpires a bit differently, but due to the DBZ movies depicting Piccolo, we can assume that the Daimao and 23rd TB arcs play out pretty much as they were.
• Dead Zone takes place a year before the start of the Saiyan Arc. This cancels out Gohan's reveal to Roshi, Bulma and Krillin at Kame House.
• In order for World's Strongest to work, I figured that Nappa goes to Earth on his own and is then killed without any deaths, while Goku still trains with Kaio to learn the Kaio-ken and Genki-Dama. Nappa's death means Vegeta travels to Earth second, giving enough room for World's Strongest to transpire and for Vegeta to kill Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and Chiaotzu, motivating the journey to Namek once more.
• Since Goku doesn't have Super Saiyan in Tree of Might, to solve this I simply say that the Genki-Dama worked in killing Frieza, meaning Goku had no need to go Super Saiyan. Trunks still appears later to demonstrate it for him.
• Tree of Might and Lord Slug take place in the three year wait for the Androids. The False Super Saiyan in Lord Slug I describe as "Super Saiyan Omen" similar to Ultra Instinct.
• Cooler's Revenge also takes place in the three year Android wait. It is here that Goku finally achieves Super Saiyan. This movie is placed here rather than during the Cell Games because there's simply far more time for them to happen: four big villains showing up in nine days is kinda pushing it.
• The Return of Cooler and Super Android 13 take place in the 9 day Cell Games wait, since Vegeta can turn Super Saiyan. However Gohan is not using the form during these two movies: I explain this by saying that Goku and Gohan don't go into the Room of Spirit and Time until during the Cell Games wait.
• The Broly movie also takes place during the 9 day Cell Games wait, and Gohan is now able to use and hold Super Saiyan after the delayed use of the Room of Spirit and Time mentioned earlier.
• Gohan is able to kill Cell when he's supposed to, meaning Goku no longer has to sacrifice himself for it. This allows Bojack Unbound to happen.
• But at some point, Goku dies anyway so that Second Coming can happen. Second Coming is played during the month wait for the Tenkaichi Budokai at the start of the Buu Arc, which is also where Bio-Broly takes place.
• In the Movieverse, Chi-Chi has Gohan attend Orange Star High School a year early. In-universe this is to reflect the year Gohan spent in the Room of Spirit and Time, but it also helps offset the year delay in Vegeta arriving in the Saiyan Arc: this means that Gohan and Videl can attend high school in the same class so that the Great Saiyaman Arc can still work.
• Fusion Reborn takes place after Buu's defeat, but since Goku and Vegeta are both dead, it's assumed that Buu was defeated by Gohan and/or Gotenks. It also must take place within five years after Buu's defeat, as Bulma complains in End of Z that she hasn't seen Goku in five years (the EoZ timeskip is 10 years).
• Wrath of the Dragon also takes place after Buu's defeat, but by now Goku and Vegeta have been wished back to live. As with Fusion Reborn, it must take place within five years after Buu's defeat.

Aside from Goku dying for no reason after Bojack Unbound, I think it's pretty solid!

[Dr. Casey]

Those are all really creative and interesting explanations. Holy shit at Movie 6, 7, 8, and the Cell Games taking place within a 10 day span though. That's one crazy ass week.

[Xeogran]

Those are all really creative and interesting explanations. Holy shit at Movie 6, 7, 8, and the Cell Games taking place within a 10 day span though. That's one crazy ass week.

"Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" too

[KBABZ]

Those are all really creative and interesting explanations. Holy shit at Movie 6, 7, 8, and the Cell Games taking place within a 10 day span though. That's one crazy ass week.

Thanks! It's a thought experiment I've had for a while and it's fun to lay them out. I'm sure I'll make further adjustments as we continue the rewatch.

The idea that Movies 6-8 taking place in the gap between the Cell Games isn't new, but it is funny to see them laid out like that!

"Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans" too

Oh crap I forgot about that one!

[Matches Malone]

This is where I place the movies:

1: Before the Saiyan arc.

2,3,4,5,&6: Before the Androids arrive. If you skip the brief opening scene of 6 with Dende, it fits. Goku only uses Kaioken in 2,3,&4 because he doesn't think thsoe villains are worth going Ssj.

7: Right before Goku takes everyone to the lookout to train.

8: Before the Cell games.

9: After the Cell games.

10: Before the 25th Tenkaichi.

11: There wasn't an 11th movie.

12&13: After the battle with Kid Buu. Goku isn't really dead in 12, he had to give up his life for a day to take part in the other world tournament, same goes for Vegeta.

They don't fit perfectly, obviously, but it's the best I could come up with.

[KBABZ]

This is where I place the movies:

1: Before the Saiyan arc.

2,3,4,5,&6: Before the Androids arrive. If you skip the brief opening scene of 6 with Dende, it fits. Goku only uses Kaioken in 2,3,&4 because he doesn't think thsoe villains are worth going Ssj.

7: Right before Goku takes everyone to the lookout to train.

8: Before the Cell games.

9: After the Cell games.

10: Before the 25th Tenkaichi.

11: There wasn't an 11th movie.

12&13: After the battle with Kid Buu. Goku isn't really dead in 12, he had to give up his life for a day to take part in the other world tournament, same goes for Vegeta.

They don't fit perfectly, obviously, but it's the best I could come up with.

Ahh! My thought experiment is a bit different, it's more about warping and adjusting the anime storyline so that the movies can take place during it.