Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
This is unfair! Dragon Ball has done so much! The following:
Created an enourmous fanbase
Defined many generations
Defined an industry
Reached global popularity
The first anime to reach America
Held the title of best selling manga in history for many years
Held the title of most popular show in the US for many years
Has the most iconic and (not counting wars in One Piece, Naruto and Bleach) longest fight in Shonen history, Goku vs Frieza
And more. Yet FUNimation and Toei have kept on screwing us over since the 2000s now!
WE HAVEN'T HAD A PRISTINE DBZ HOME RELEASE SINCE THE DRAGON BOXES, AND EVEN THEN, THEY DIDN'T EVEN GET THE DAMN COLORS RIGHT!! (they were close tho)
DB fans unfortunately support anything with the franchise's name on it, resulting in the companies behind it not having to put much effort into it. Funimation's releases of Z are terrible, yet anytime they put one out it flies off the shelves. The idea of getting Funimation to care went out the window the minute they saw something as bad as the orange sets not only selling well, but being defended by parts of the fan base as well. You've got a group of fans who've made so much noise about Z's dub being better than Kai's (I can't believe it either) that Funimation's dub of Super was a downgrade from Kai's, as they went back to their old ways of changing and adding things for no reason. Obviously Super's dub isn't as bad, but it's still a downgrade from Kai. We're not really Funi's target audience, it's the "fans" who believe the orange sets were "HD" and the dub was the best thing since pudding.
Z's dub better than Kai's? Ok i cannot wrap my head around fans who actually believe this. Because the old dub especially Season 3 was an absolute top to bottom garbage product between the amature hour impression performances by the cast, terrible scripts and constant deluge of bad jokes that are so cringe worthy that they can't be taken seriously at all. The Orange Brick remastered partial redub was only very slightly better in removing some of the awful lines and jokes from the old version especially the Freeza arc, though still didn't go far enough as they should've in fixing what was already a dumpster fire mess of a dub from 1999-2003.
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:04 pmZ's dub better than Kai's? Ok i cannot wrap my head around fans who actually believe this.
Check any Youtube video of Kai and you'll see plenty of comments of people saying this. I assume it's one of the reason Funimation moved away a bit from Kai's accurate dub in favor of a more altered dub for Super.
Nothing good comes from listening to youtube comment sections.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:04 pmZ's dub better than Kai's? Ok i cannot wrap my head around fans who actually believe this.
Check any Youtube video of Kai and you'll see plenty of comments of people saying this. I assume it's one of the reason Funimation moved away a bit from Kai's accurate dub in favor of a more altered dub for Super.
True Super's dub is not quite as accurate as Kai. Even then, i still wouldn't say it's anywhere near as heavy of an alteration/bastardization as the old DBZ dub was.
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
Boured wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:47 pm
Yeah, it seems Dragon Ball has the same problem as Pokemon, where it doesn't matter how quality the product is, it will still sell a lot regardless.
Really dissapointng, but I'll have to get used to it and hunt around for those elusive boxes.
The Pokemon anime is nowhere as popular in the west as it is Japan, hence the lack of a good dub or the original music/subs released here. Pokemon anime hasn't been popular since the early 2000's, and even then its peak was 1998-1999 and never had that again.
Boured wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:47 pm
Yeah, it seems Dragon Ball has the same problem as Pokemon, where it doesn't matter how quality the product is, it will still sell a lot regardless.
Really dissapointng, but I'll have to get used to it and hunt around for those elusive boxes.
The Pokemon anime is nowhere as popular in the west as it is Japan, hence the lack of a good dub or the original music/subs released here. Pokemon anime hasn't been popular since the early 2000's, and even then its peak was 1998-1999 and never had that again.
Indeed, it was really that initial blitz/craze in the late '90s/very early 2000's that was by far the high point of Pokémon's popularity as a franchise over here in the States, and that's including the anime along with the video games, card game and other misc merchandise and if you're talking the show the first two or three seasons in particular between Indigo League, Orange Islands and the first part of Johto. After like 2001 or so that popularity waned and the anime has not been big enough since then to warrant those things being done as much as they would be great to have.
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
Boured wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:47 pm
Yeah, it seems Dragon Ball has the same problem as Pokemon, where it doesn't matter how quality the product is, it will still sell a lot regardless.
Really dissapointng, but I'll have to get used to it and hunt around for those elusive boxes.
The Pokemon anime is nowhere as popular in the west as it is Japan, hence the lack of a good dub or the original music/subs released here. Pokemon anime hasn't been popular since the early 2000's, and even then its peak was 1998-1999 and never had that again.
Indeed, it was really that initial blitz/craze in the late '90s/very early 2000's that was by far the high point of Pokémon's popularity as a franchise over here in the States, and that's including the anime along with the video games, card game and other misc merchandise and if you're talking the show the first two or three seasons in particular between Indigo League, Orange Islands and the first part of Johto. After like 2001 or so that popularity waned and the anime has not been big enough since then to warrant those things being done as much as they would be great to have.
Pokemon is still crazy popular in the west, but nowadays it's the games that get most of the focus, with the anime kind of going more into the background.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:04 pm
Z's dub better than Kai's? Ok i cannot wrap my head around fans who actually believe this. Because the old dub especially Season 3 was an absolute top to bottom garbage product between the amature hour impression performances by the cast, terrible scripts and constant deluge of bad jokes that are so cringe worthy that they can't be taken seriously at all. The Orange Brick remastered partial redub was only very slightly better in removing some of the awful lines and jokes from the old version especially the Freeza arc, though still didn't go far enough as they should've in fixing what was already a dumpster fire mess of a dub from 1999-2003.
I'll freely admit I put myself in that camp, and that's because Kai cuts out way too much for my liking, character development in particular really suffers big time, with characters suddenly doing a complete 180 in personality with no build-up and there's some genuinely good filler that I really missed as well. Plus it feels like Kai is trying too hard to appeal to both fans of the original dub and fans of the sub, as you've got some voice-actors replaced while others reprise their roles, which comes off as rather jarring to me and you've got some cases where Funimation tries to punch up the dialogue like it did in the original dub yet other times where it tries to be more faithful to the original Japanese version, it feels like Kai has an identity crisis about what exactly it wants to be. Also really didn't like the new music score, I can get used to Kikuchi stuff even though i'm it's biggest fan, but good lord the Yamamato score for Kai sounds awful, and the music is not placed very well in the Kikuchi version of Kai. Not to mention the ugly redrawn scenes that stick out like a sore thumb and look even more out of place then the new special effects on the Star Wars original trilogy remasters. Also I really didn't like how Kai took some cues from DBZA(I.E. Nappa saying "I hate the media!"), there's just something about an officially licensed DB product dropping in blatant references to a popular fan-series that just rubs me the wrong way.
So yeah that's why I never quite got onboard the Kai train. I definitely don't think season 3 was garbage from top to bottom at all, yeah the voice-acting takes some getting used to and there's some corny lines, but overall i've heard far worse and I can still enjoy it without cringing too much. I'd argue the redub was actually worse since it would occasionally change the music from the original dub for no apparent reason.
"Why run away from something you're not afraid of?" - Goku
FPSSJ4_Goku wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 10:21 am
This is unfair! Dragon Ball has done so much! The following:
Created an enourmous fanbase
Defined many generations
Defined an industry
Reached global popularity The first anime to reach America Held the title of best selling manga in history for many years
Held the title of most popular show in the US for many years
Has the most iconic and (not counting wars in One Piece, Naruto and Bleach) longest fight in Shonen history, Goku vs Frieza
And more. Yet FUNimation and Toei have kept on screwing us over since the 2000s now!
WE HAVEN'T HAD A PRISTINE DBZ HOME RELEASE SINCE THE DRAGON BOXES, AND EVEN THEN, THEY DIDN'T EVEN GET THE DAMN COLORS RIGHT!! (they were close tho)
Sorry to break it to you but DB was not the first anime to get to reach America. All the others are true.
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
The Pokemon anime is nowhere as popular in the west as it is Japan, hence the lack of a good dub or the original music/subs released here. Pokemon anime hasn't been popular since the early 2000's, and even then its peak was 1998-1999 and never had that again.
Indeed, it was really that initial blitz/craze in the late '90s/very early 2000's that was by far the high point of Pokémon's popularity as a franchise over here in the States, and that's including the anime along with the video games, card game and other misc merchandise and if you're talking the show the first two or three seasons in particular between Indigo League, Orange Islands and the first part of Johto. After like 2001 or so that popularity waned and the anime has not been big enough since then to warrant those things being done as much as they would be great to have.
Pokemon is still crazy popular in the west, but nowadays it's the games that get most of the focus, with the anime kind of going more into the background.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:04 pm
Z's dub better than Kai's? Ok i cannot wrap my head around fans who actually believe this. Because the old dub especially Season 3 was an absolute top to bottom garbage product between the amature hour impression performances by the cast, terrible scripts and constant deluge of bad jokes that are so cringe worthy that they can't be taken seriously at all. The Orange Brick remastered partial redub was only very slightly better in removing some of the awful lines and jokes from the old version especially the Freeza arc, though still didn't go far enough as they should've in fixing what was already a dumpster fire mess of a dub from 1999-2003.
I'll freely admit I put myself in that camp, and that's because Kai cuts out way too much for my liking, character development in particular really suffers big time, with characters suddenly doing a complete 180 in personality with no build-up and there's some genuinely good filler that I really missed as well. Plus it feels like Kai is trying too hard to appeal to both fans of the original dub and fans of the sub, as you've got some voice-actors replaced while others reprise their roles, which comes off as rather jarring to me and you've got some cases where Funimation tries to punch up the dialogue like it did in the original dub yet other times where it tries to be more faithful to the original Japanese version, it feels like Kai has an identity crisis about what exactly it wants to be. Also really didn't like the new music score, I can get used to Kikuchi stuff even though i'm it's biggest fan, but good lord the Yamamato score for Kai sounds awful, and the music is not placed very well in the Kikuchi version of Kai. Not to mention the ugly redrawn scenes that stick out like a sore thumb and look even more out of place then the new special effects on the Star Wars original trilogy remasters. Also I really didn't like how Kai took some cues from DBZA(I.E. Nappa saying "I hate the media!"), there's just something about an officially licensed DB product dropping in blatant references to a popular fan-series that just rubs me the wrong way.
So yeah that's why I never quite got onboard the Kai train. I definitely don't think season 3 was garbage from top to bottom at all, yeah the voice-acting takes some getting used to and there's some corny lines, but overall i've heard far worse and I can still enjoy it without cringing too much. I'd argue the redub was actually worse since it would occasionally change the music from the original dub for no apparent reason.
That's fine, if you prefer the old DBZ dub over Kai's for those reasons then more power to you. I find the old Z dub bad especially the Freeza arc (both 1999 and redub) bad OTOH and what Kai was aiming to do in trying to lean more toward the original version and overall feel they did a decent job and from that standpoint i'm satisfied with it more or less. It's indeed not a perfect dub mind you, though that's aside from the flaws on the production side with Toei and Q-TEC like the redraws and the music scandal debacle. I see based on the above post that you don't find the old dub as awful as other fans do especially around here, but that's your own personal preference in your fandom of the series.
Yes, Pokemon is still a fairly big property (mainly the games over the anime now) but isn't anywhere close these days to that absolutely massive bonanza blitz after the series reared it's head here in the late '90s when i was a little kid. It was already a sizable thing in Japan with the OG games in 1996 and of course the anime the next year. There was some drop off on the show's and franchise's popularity as a whole here in like 2001/2002 from the craze period and there's been a shift with the game installments being more in focus nowadays over the anime.
DB collection related goals as of now:
1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)
Indeed, it was really that initial blitz/craze in the late '90s/very early 2000's that was by far the high point of Pokémon's popularity as a franchise over here in the States, and that's including the anime along with the video games, card game and other misc merchandise and if you're talking the show the first two or three seasons in particular between Indigo League, Orange Islands and the first part of Johto. After like 2001 or so that popularity waned and the anime has not been big enough since then to warrant those things being done as much as they would be great to have.
Pokemon is still crazy popular in the west, but nowadays it's the games that get most of the focus, with the anime kind of going more into the background.
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:04 pm
Z's dub better than Kai's? Ok i cannot wrap my head around fans who actually believe this. Because the old dub especially Season 3 was an absolute top to bottom garbage product between the amature hour impression performances by the cast, terrible scripts and constant deluge of bad jokes that are so cringe worthy that they can't be taken seriously at all. The Orange Brick remastered partial redub was only very slightly better in removing some of the awful lines and jokes from the old version especially the Freeza arc, though still didn't go far enough as they should've in fixing what was already a dumpster fire mess of a dub from 1999-2003.
I'll freely admit I put myself in that camp, and that's because Kai cuts out way too much for my liking, character development in particular really suffers big time, with characters suddenly doing a complete 180 in personality with no build-up and there's some genuinely good filler that I really missed as well. Plus it feels like Kai is trying too hard to appeal to both fans of the original dub and fans of the sub, as you've got some voice-actors replaced while others reprise their roles, which comes off as rather jarring to me and you've got some cases where Funimation tries to punch up the dialogue like it did in the original dub yet other times where it tries to be more faithful to the original Japanese version, it feels like Kai has an identity crisis about what exactly it wants to be. Also really didn't like the new music score, I can get used to Kikuchi stuff even though i'm it's biggest fan, but good lord the Yamamato score for Kai sounds awful, and the music is not placed very well in the Kikuchi version of Kai. Not to mention the ugly redrawn scenes that stick out like a sore thumb and look even more out of place then the new special effects on the Star Wars original trilogy remasters. Also I really didn't like how Kai took some cues from DBZA(I.E. Nappa saying "I hate the media!"), there's just something about an officially licensed DB product dropping in blatant references to a popular fan-series that just rubs me the wrong way.
So yeah that's why I never quite got onboard the Kai train. I definitely don't think season 3 was garbage from top to bottom at all, yeah the voice-acting takes some getting used to and there's some corny lines, but overall i've heard far worse and I can still enjoy it without cringing too much. I'd argue the redub was actually worse since it would occasionally change the music from the original dub for no apparent reason.
That's fine, if you prefer the old DBZ dub over Kai's for those reasons then more power to you. I find the old Z dub bad especially the Freeza arc (both 1999 and redub) bad OTOH and what Kai was aiming to do in trying to lean more toward the original version and overall feel they did a decent job and from that standpoint i'm satisfied with it more or less. It's indeed not a perfect dub mind you, though that's aside from the flaws on the production side with Toei and Q-TEC like the redraws and the music scandal debacle. I see based on the above post that you don't find the old dub as awful as other fans do especially around here, but that's your own personal preference in your fandom of the series.
Yes, Pokemon is still a fairly big property (mainly the games over the anime now) but isn't anywhere close these days to that absolutely massive bonanza blitz after the series reared it's head here in the late '90s when i was a little kid. It was already a sizable thing in Japan with the OG games in 1996 and of course the anime the next year. There was some drop off on the show's and franchise's popularity as a whole here in like 2001/2002 from the craze period and there's been a shift with the game installments being more in focus nowadays over the anime.
I more compared it to Pokemon due to the whole National Dex debacle with Sword and Shield, and despite the game being rather mediocre and lazy, sold more than most any other in the series.
I am glad 4:3 is back though, should have never left.
While I’m all for bashing Funimation I’m confused is this about the quality of their non-Kai dubs of their “remastering” process?
While the dub will always be deserving of mockery it’s not going anywhere. The sub is at least readily available. And while it’s not perfect (Funimation couldn’t be bothered to credit the actual people who made the damn show until Kai) at least it’s there.
As far as video quality, yeah it’s unfortunate. The orange bricks sold really really well (mosty because they’re cheap) so Funimation has no real reason to change on that font.
Matches Malone wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 11:07 am
DB fans unfortunately support anything with the franchise's name on it, resulting in the companies behind it not having to put much effort into it. Funimation's releases of Z are terrible, yet anytime they put one out it flies off the shelves. The idea of getting Funimation to care went out the window the minute they saw something as bad as the orange sets not only selling well, but being defended by parts of the fan base as well.
Basically this. From a pure business view, why bother actually putting forth a full effort when you can do a lazy job and still get an easy fat paycheck either way. Even now the only people who have put Funimation to trial over their terrible treatment of the franchise on home media are the small subset of hardcore fans who are also AV nerds, who genuinely care about being able to see the series how it was intended. Unsurprisingly since they make up such a small minority of the consumer-base, their pleas will fall on deaf ears.
I myself believe that our only hope of ever having another decent DB release again is if Toei decides to take the initiative and do the job themselves. Even then, that is very unlikely.
First time Dragon Ball fan as of March 2020. Still learning the ropes. Nothing much else to say,
