Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3

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SuperSaiyaManZ94
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:58 pm

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:17 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:04 pm
Big Green is funny in it's own right as everyone knows in taking from badly translated scripts from the French dubs, but the Speedy dub is such levels of pure mangled, trainwreck badness that i can't get enough of. There's just something i find hilarious about a bunch of video store or whoever people in Malaysia or Singapore with a very poor comprehension of the English language doing a (bootleg on VCD) anime film dub. Like really...why not just dub it in their own language instead of something so butchered and incomprehensible that you almost can't make out what they're saying half the time?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YxKCsRJ7mCE&t=2246s
Speedy dub is like taking DBZ but Google translating it into five different languages, translating it back into English, and putting it on a script. Atleast with Big Green it's nonsense is comprehensible. :lol:
So true, and the Big Green dub is a "so bad it's good" thing because of the comically unfitting voices on the characters and hilariously stupid lines due to apparent awful translations coming from AB Groupe's scripts which adds to the infamous reputation of them. Speedy OTOH is laughably bad exactly as a result of the mangled accents of those doing the characters, horrifically distorted music tracks and everything else. It's obvious to see that these people weren't very fluent in English. Also, it seems they were translating from scripts that more or less reflect the Japanese version but of course the butchering of the dialogue just turns everything into a total mess. Still though, i watch them as with Big Green purely for laughs.

Another thing i liken it to dub wise is the infamous Omni Productions/StarTV dub of the Transformers: The Headmasters series done in Hong Kong back in the early '90s. That too is a riot of a production which has so many hilariously delivered lines that it is such a bizarre experience after watching the original Japanese version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TjhCNGCK00M

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DqlD_tWTEdY
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1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Planetnamek » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:54 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:57 am
Planetnamek wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 3:03 am Icarus (which I honestly think is a better name, Higher Dragon just sounds plain weird and nonsensical)
MyVisionity explained the joke/pun with Hire Dragon and it’s just one of those things that doesn’t carry over into western culture.

Icarus isn’t really the best name, considering what happened to the mythological character. I guess it’s cute that it implies Gohan reads Greek Mythology in his spare time but why name your flying pet after a character who died flying to close to the sun ?
I think the ultimate uncut version is decent if a bit redundant.
Lol this is the third Tree of Might dub that Funimation was involved with. The real question is why use the script for the edited Saban approved tv version instead of the Ocean/Pioneer version that was already uncut. We know they had access to the Pioneer scripts per Dead Zone and World Strongest.
As a kid I remember wondering where the hell any of that footage in the intro came from and it wasn't until Cartoon Network aired those first three movies that i finally got my answer.
Hey now we get like a second of actual tv footage with the shot of Nappa tearing through the plane :) XD
Ah so that's what that name was a reference to, if it's something that does not translate well to English audiences then I say better changing it that trying to stay faithful and confusing people that aren't familiar with Japanese wordplay humor. I remember when this came up with Yu-Gi-Oh GX and there was a running gag involved Manjoume's(Chazz in the dub)catchphrase Manjoune Thunder, which only really made sense if you were familiar with the Japanese language, so it was basically impossible for 4Kids to faithfully translate something like that without confusing the hell out of western audiences, so they changed the catchphrase to "Chazz it up", which also works as it sounds similar to "Jazz it up"
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:14 am

KBABZ wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:28 pm Two pieces of Trivia I think Robo should include:
  • The UK dub of Tree of Might has Tullece directly refer to Goku as his brother. This caused confusion for a long time with American fans where Tullece does not do this. Turns out "English Dub" is far too broad a term!
  • Tullece's name is a pun on the lettuce vegetable, keeping the Saiyan name theme. How to convey this in English has changed over time: a popular name was Turles, however Tullece has recently been adopted by Kanzenshuu as it more effectively conveys what the pun is (compare Burter to Butta, as another example).

I don't think that the dub names like Turles and Burter are the result of any attempt at conveying the puns in English. More like Funimation using whatever names they happened to like. Also you say "recently", but unless I'm mistaken Kanzenshuu/DaizenshuuEX/Kanzentai has been using the 'Tullece' spelling for almost two decades now.

I don't doubt that the AB Groupe dub caused lots of confusion over Tullece's relation to Goku. I think that in the US however, it was easy for fans during the Saban/Funi/Ocean era to just assume that Goku and Tullece were brothers. With so little explanation from the film, it's not an illogical conclusion. Plus with characters like Raditz and Vegeta running around, confusion was unavoidable. Fans were always getting the three of them mixed up. I did too early on.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by 8000 Saiyan » Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:47 am

It's a rushed production much like the Westwood dub, but if there's one thing I love about the Big Green dub is how much fun some of the voice actors seem to be having, particularly Paul Bandey, who plays Paragus, and Doug Rand, who voiced Cooler, Broly, Garlic Jr. and Bojack.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:22 am

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:14 am I don't think that the dub names like Turles and Burter are the result of any attempt at conveying the puns in English. More like Funimation using whatever names they happened to like. Also you say "recently", but unless I'm mistaken Kanzenshuu/DaizenshuuEX/Kanzentai has been using the 'Tullece' spelling for almost two decades now.
Meant to say "more recently" to refer to the total history of the movie, oops.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:24 am

Far as I know Tullece was always correct and Turles was a transliteration thing with l and r being interchangeable in Japanese.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:41 am

WittyUsername wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:02 am FUNimation’s in-house dub of this movie is pretty wonky. The best explanation I can come up with for why they used the TV dub’s script as the basis is that they wanted to try and set it apart from the Pioneer version.

Anyway, as I believe I said in the Movie 2 thread, out of the first three DBZ movies, this one is probably the weakest. The fight scenes aren’t as dynamic as the prior two movies, and there aren’t really any unique or interesting locations. Tullece works well enough as an evil version of Goku, the movie doesn’t tell us anything about him or his henchmen beyond that. I know that there’s supplementary material that expands on these guys, but none of it is in the actual movie.

I will give this movie props for trying to tell more of an actual story than most of the other DBZ movies, but unfortunately, the subplot with Gohan and Hire Dragon doesn’t really do much to advance the plot, and we don’t even see it getting resolved. The scenes of Chi-Chi scolding Gohan in this movie also come across as derivative, since Movie 2 already did that. I also think the movie overdoes it with the establishing shots of the Earth being affected by the tree.

The big draw of this movie for me has always been getting to see most of the Dragon Team together, but everyone outside of Goku is pretty useless here, so that makes the whole thing feel more like window dressing. I think they could’ve let the other characters defeat at least a couple of the minions.

Still, I wouldn’t call this movie bad. It’s just not one of my favorites.
More or less stole the words right out of my mouth. The weakest of the trilogy, but still a notch above some of the movies that come after. Atleast Tree of Might doesn't bore me and make me want to skim through.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:46 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:58 pm
ArmenianPepsi wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:17 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Nov 25, 2020 10:04 pm
Big Green is funny in it's own right as everyone knows in taking from badly translated scripts from the French dubs, but the Speedy dub is such levels of pure mangled, trainwreck badness that i can't get enough of. There's just something i find hilarious about a bunch of video store or whoever people in Malaysia or Singapore with a very poor comprehension of the English language doing a (bootleg on VCD) anime film dub. Like really...why not just dub it in their own language instead of something so butchered and incomprehensible that you almost can't make out what they're saying half the time?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YxKCsRJ7mCE&t=2246s
Speedy dub is like taking DBZ but Google translating it into five different languages, translating it back into English, and putting it on a script. Atleast with Big Green it's nonsense is comprehensible. :lol:
So true, and the Big Green dub is a "so bad it's good" thing because of the comically unfitting voices on the characters and hilariously stupid lines due to apparent awful translations coming from AB Groupe's scripts which adds to the infamous reputation of them. Speedy OTOH is laughably bad exactly as a result of the mangled accents of those doing the characters, horrifically distorted music tracks and everything else. It's obvious to see that these people weren't very fluent in English. Also, it seems they were translating from scripts that more or less reflect the Japanese version but of course the butchering of the dialogue just turns everything into a total mess. Still though, i watch them as with Big Green purely for laughs.

Another thing i liken it to dub wise is the infamous Omni Productions/StarTV dub of the Transformers: The Headmasters series done in Hong Kong back in the early '90s. That too is a riot of a production which has so many hilariously delivered lines that it is such a bizarre experience after watching the original Japanese version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TjhCNGCK00M

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DqlD_tWTEdY
The funniest part is that Headmasters isnt even a case of "Good show ruined by a wonky dub". It's still pretty lackluster in it's original form. I tried watching it and gave up at like episode 12, it's criminally boring.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:38 am

ArmenianPepsi wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 12:46 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:58 pm
ArmenianPepsi wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:17 pm
Speedy dub is like taking DBZ but Google translating it into five different languages, translating it back into English, and putting it on a script. Atleast with Big Green it's nonsense is comprehensible. :lol:
So true, and the Big Green dub is a "so bad it's good" thing because of the comically unfitting voices on the characters and hilariously stupid lines due to apparent awful translations coming from AB Groupe's scripts which adds to the infamous reputation of them. Speedy OTOH is laughably bad exactly as a result of the mangled accents of those doing the characters, horrifically distorted music tracks and everything else. It's obvious to see that these people weren't very fluent in English. Also, it seems they were translating from scripts that more or less reflect the Japanese version but of course the butchering of the dialogue just turns everything into a total mess. Still though, i watch them as with Big Green purely for laughs.

Another thing i liken it to dub wise is the infamous Omni Productions/StarTV dub of the Transformers: The Headmasters series done in Hong Kong back in the early '90s. That too is a riot of a production which has so many hilariously delivered lines that it is such a bizarre experience after watching the original Japanese version.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TjhCNGCK00M

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DqlD_tWTEdY
The funniest part is that Headmasters isnt even a case of "Good show ruined by a wonky dub". It's still pretty lackluster in it's original form. I tried watching it and gave up at like episode 12, it's criminally boring.
Yes, it definitely leaves much to be desired as a follow up to the original Generation 1 TF series which of course for the longest time was exclusive to Japan same as with Super-God Masterforce and Victory (though the latter two really went off in their own respective directions with entirely new characters) and didn't even get a release over here until 2011 and a few years earlier in the UK. Even then it was subtitled in the original Japanese audio only as Hasbro and Shout! Factory wisely decided against including the Omni Productions dubs because they knew full well just how awful they were. The Rebirth may have gotten cut down to three parts from the planned five parter, but still i found it more watchable AKOM's crap budget animation non withstanding. Then again, i personally count the Japanese shows as their own unique things separate from G1 although Headmasters fits with it more as a continuation of sorts to a degree than the others do.

Still though, Omni's dubs especially for Headmasters is fun to watch purely for laughs. :lol:
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:28 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:02 am FUNimation’s in-house dub of this movie is pretty wonky. The best explanation I can come up with for why they used the TV dub’s script as the basis is that they wanted to try and set it apart from the Pioneer version
They already used the Pioneer scripts for movie 1 and 2 so that ship had sailed if they were trying to set them apart. Plus they most definitely had another script for Z movie 1 written circa 95 in a filing cabinet somewhere that they could have used if they wanted to be different but instead ignored in favor of sticking to the Pioneer version.

Honestly, the reasoning could be anywhere from

The tv script already had Haiya Dragon’s name as Icarus and the lack of any swearing or mention of Gods so it was just less work for Funimation to grab that script

They found the tv script in storage first

Barry Watson who had no involvement with the Pioneer movies wanted to use the version of Tree of Might he was involved with for the basis of the redub


The world may never know

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:34 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:43 pm What constitutes "exploring" that theme?
At this point, anything except for completely ignoring it, I guess.

I've seen people suggest Tullece is an attempt to explore what would happen if Goku had not been raised well, by humans, but if you ask me, that theme isn't there at all, and the only reason people raise it is because he looks like Goku.
ABED wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:43 pm I think the action is ultimately what carries this film. I'm glad rest of the cast is used in the movie but I'm torn, while I would've liked one of them to get a victory over a member of the Tullece Corp, Goku taking down an arrogant group of lackeys is one of the most badass DB moments ever.
My problem with this movie is that action doesn't carry it, for a good portion -- there's a lot of time devoted to Gohan's pet dragon that IMO is really boring. Granted, when the action gets going, it's really good, but the time that could've been spent on telling a half-decent plot is used for the kinda boring story of Gohan and his dinosaur.
MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Nov 28, 2020 1:28 pm The tv script already had Haiya Dragon’s name as Icarus and the lack of any swearing or mention of Gods so it was just less work for Funimation to grab that script
There was no swearing in the Pioneer dubs either, aside from the odd mention of hell.
KBABZ wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:28 pm
  • The UK dub of Tree of Might has Tullece directly refer to Goku as his brother. This caused confusion for a long time with American fans where Tullece does not do this. Turns out "English Dub" is far too broad a term!
I like it.

Sure, added. Why not. Late addition, but we've done it before.
KBABZ wrote: Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:28 pm
  • Tullece's name is a pun on the lettuce vegetable, keeping the Saiyan name theme. How to convey this in English has changed over time: a popular name was Turles, however Tullece has recently been adopted by Kanzenshuu as it more effectively conveys what the pun is (compare Burter to Butta, as another example).
Already noted, but I've slightly modified that entry to note Funi's name now:
  • Tullece, continuing the tradition of Saiyans being named after vegetables, is a pun/rearrangement of lettuce (which was handily screwed up by Funimation to make "Turles"). One of his minions is named Raisin (except with an elongated first vowel), his counterpart, Rakasei, is a pun on the Japanese word for peanut (roughly "Rakkasei"), another of his minions is named Cacao, another is Daiizu, a pun on the Japanese word for soybean ("Daizu"), and one is named Amond after almond.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ABED » Sat Nov 28, 2020 4:17 pm

The plot is straightforward. Fair enough, you don't like Haiya Dragon, but that screen time would not be better served on a thin plot. At the very least Haiya Dragon does serve a narrative purpose in showing how Gohan is not destructive just because he's a Saiyan. Even in his transformed state, his humanity shows through.

And dark Goku isn't something that really needs exploring in depth. It's a simple idea that you don't need to be so heavy handed with. If Goku went dark, shit would get bad. Very simple, no need to "explore". People get it. It wasn't ignored, they simply didn't hammer you over the head with it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Jun 12, 2021 8:55 am

So I watched the edited Funimation dub which I haven’t seen since….1999?

*I always underestimate how cringe and awful Funimation’s paint jobs were. The tree in place of the T for the Tree of Might title card and the bush inserted to cover Gohan’s butt and junk are particularly bad.

*I guess Funimation didn’t receive a clean version of the opening credits with the customized “find the dragon balls” Head Cha la opening so they removed it entirely and just acted like they brought the dragon balls with them for Krillin to make a wish later?

*I’m surprised Saban allowed Funimation to have King Kai refer to the Tree of Might as the Tree of Death. Maybe their BS&P person didn’t hear it


* Chi Chi’s Ocean actress Laara Sadiq has a great voice. It’s very motherly but she can also be condescending, sarcastic, and impatient. Nothing against Cynthia Cranz, who truthfully gives the most competent performance of the original season 3 cast, but her Chi Chi was always just in bitch mode all the time making her more of a caricature than anything


*There is some really awful dialog in this dub. I’m starting to wonder if the writing in season 3 was actually worse than the original first two seasons or did the amateur acting from the Funimation Studios cast just make the bad dialog stand out more?

*More of a commentary on the redub but when Yamcha attacks the one henchman using his Sokidan he says “You want some of this, fly face?!” the Ultimate Uncut redub, in it’s effort to be more mature and less Saturday Morning cartoon-y just removes the fly face part. Which is fine but also at this point Funimation had dubbed the Piccolo Junior saga where the sokidan was renamed Spirit Ball…..just use that name? (The Pioneer dub called it power ball, I think)


* I cannot stand Matt Smith’s Tien. I realize they literally had nothing to go on the character but “has three eyes, knows Goku somehow, and best friend with that weird Chaotzu guy” but why the surfer voice? But also why give Yamcha a surfer voice in season 3 when Ted Cole just talked normal.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 48 - DBZ movie 3

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:27 pm

Having recently watched the Pioneer dub I can confirm that it was in fact called "Power Ball" there.

I do think the first two seasons had worse dialogue with all of the lame attempts at covering up death, but the fact that the Ocean voice-cast were all experienced actors made it easier for people to overlook the bad dialogue.
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