30th Anniversary Blu-Ray vs. DVD Singles (Episode 68/118 onward)

[uzuni]

While there’s no contention on the Dragon Box being the best visual of the series, there is contention among dub watchers.

For those of us that absolutely must have the Faulconer score, what is the best viewing experience?

Considering that Season 3 and the Garlic Jr. Saga were largely redubbed, which would be the optimal version to watch from episode 118 onward, the 30th Anniversary Blu-Ray, or the DVD singles?

[MasenkoHA]

Aren’t those Steelbooks suppose to be okay?


For those that need the Falconzord music anyways

[VegettoEX]

This is ultimately one of those cases where FUNimation's revisionist history combined with their DBZ-specific home video release "quirks" (putting it lightly?) doesn't satisfy anyone.

Want to watch what aired on Toonami exactly as it sounded on Toonami? Doesn't really exist on home video.

Want to watch a good home video release? Long out of print and doesn't contain dub-specific things like the replacement score, and is only the redubbed version.

You can mix and match aspects, but you can't have all of them at the same time, and even within a single aspect there are bounds to be missing elements!

If you're watching on any kind of modern display. I guuuuuueeeessssss those 30th anniversary Blu-rays are the "best"...? But again, that's not exactly how it sounded on Toonami, particularly through into the android stuff.

(A bit unrelated to your specific question since you do seem to know the ins-and-outs of things, but this all leads to one of my biggest pet peeves, through no fault of fans themselves: when people refer to watching "remastered DBZ" as if that actually describes anything specific!)

[uzuni]

This is ultimately one of those cases where FUNimation's revisionist history combined with their DBZ-specific home video release "quirks" (putting it lightly?) doesn't satisfy anyone.

Want to watch what aired on Toonami exactly as it sounded on Toonami? Doesn't really exist on home video.

Want to watch a good home video release? Long out of print and doesn't contain dub-specific things like the replacement score, and is only the redubbed version.

You can mix and match aspects, but you can't have all of them at the same time, and even within a single aspect there are bounds to be missing elements!

If you're watching on any kind of modern display. I guuuuuueeeessssss those 30th anniversary Blu-rays are the "best"...? But again, that's not exactly how it sounded on Toonami, particularly through into the android stuff.

(A bit unrelated to your specific question since you do seem to know the ins-and-outs of things, but this all leads to one of my biggest pet peeves, through no fault of fans themselves: when people refer to watching "remastered DBZ" as if that actually describes anything specific!)

How do the two releases compare visually? I’m inclined to think the DVDs are superior to the Blu-Ray in this aspect.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The singles are the way to go if you want to watch the original dub with the Faulconer score's original placement. Every complete release of the series since then uses the remastered dub with the revised placements and the (not ideal) redubbed lines by the actors.

[eledoremassis02]

I would argue the singles. Any other release got rid of some of the voice filters they originally had, and I belive some of the stuff up to the androids were redubbed. Plus you get Japanese audio and title cards so if you can get dragon box 1 and 2 you can save some money and get the singles and have an overall good option for watching it subbed uncut and as close to the toonami version you can get outside recordings for season 3 onwards.

[Danfun64]

The singles are certainly "purer" from a dubbing perspective. The remastered dub post ep 67 is a mixed bag. It's arguably more "consistent" with the remastered dub pre ep 68, and is meant to be paired with it in the same way the original dub was meant to be paired with the Saban dub, but internal consistency is worse. Even ignoring cases where relatively new recordings are interacting with old recordings, you have moments with missing filters, alternate takes on old material, dialogue that wasn't originally there before, missing dialogue, etc. It's fairly close, and these errors are arguably minor on the grand scheme of things, but still. Apparently the audio mixes (5.1 Kikuchi and 2.0 Johnson/Falconer) used for the Season Blu-rays and apparently reused 30th Anniversary/Steelbox Blu-rays are better on this front than the equivalent mixes for the Orange Bricks, which were apparently reused for the Funimation Dragon Boxes (Kikuchi only) and Level sets.

So, as for video quality. The biggest problem with the singles is low bitrate. Personality, I don't know how bad it gets, but apparently the macro blocking can get really bad at times. The 30th Anniversary sets don't have this problem, but the master is worse than even the singles master due to the combination of DNR and sharpening utterly destroying detail. The picture quality is a little better than the Season Blu-rays, and unlike them retains the 4:3 aspect ratio, but both of those are really low bars (no pun intended, since both the Level Blu-rays and the 30th Anniversary Blu-rays are pillarboxed)

[Robo4900]

The DVD singles, 100%.

The later releases (including the latest Blu-rays) have terrible, jarring redubbing, mixing errors, incorrect rearrangement of the score (non-final/placeholder placements of the score are used in many, many episodes), and the picture and sound is awful.

The DVD singles aren't perfect, but if you're looking for a dubbed viewing experience, and you're set on Funimation's dub with the Faulconer score, it has to be the DVD singles.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

As Robo said above me, for the closest experience of the 1999-2003 in house dub as originally aired on Toonami particularly Seasons 3 and 4 (crappy though it may be) the singles is by far the way to go. They have the correct placement of the Faulconer score, none of the jarring partial redubbing and missing vocal filter effects and lines. Basically for the purest presentation this is what you want to go with. The quality of the video isn't the greatest, but it is in fact the original version more or less that doesn't have the revisions made later.

Of course, bear in mind that the singles if you're going to get the series that way for dubbed viewing will be quite an undertaking given the uncut volumes total 87 discs if you also include the 17 with the edited Saiyan and Namek episodes that have the Ocean Group cast and some are quite pricey these days but deals are surely out there so you could find some for decent prices.

[Arteaga4K]

30th anniversary sets. I know they redubbed some scenes and changed the score placement a few times so it ain't exactly the funimation dub from toonami, but do you really wanna watch a sub HD macroblocked to shit picture that shows its age? I don't think it's worth it

[MasenkoHA]

I understand it’s partially because I’m not a Faulconer fan but I’m not sure why the placement matters so much. It’s not like the score fit better in the original English dub. There’s quite a bit of “laugh at this joke goddamit they’re making a funny you stupid child!” Music stings in the original Funi dub that I think the partial redub actually removed?


I understand wanting “the most authentic nostalgic English dub experience” but if you just want to watch the dub with the Faulconer score the steelbooks and 30th anniversary sets are there

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I understand it’s partially because I’m not a Faulconer fan but I’m not sure why the placement matters so much. It’s not like the score fit better in the original English dub. There’s quite a bit of “laugh at this joke goddamit they’re making a funny you stupid child!” Music stings in the original Funi dub that I think the partial redub actually removed?


I understand wanting “the most authentic nostalgic English dub experience” but if you just want to watch the dub with the Faulconer score the steelbooks and 30th anniversary sets are there

I think the dub is at least a little more bearable with the Kikuchi score, although that still doesn't really make the dub better in of itself quality wise. Even though as far as DBZ in English goes i personally stick with Kai on the rare times where i'll occasionally watch Z proper with the dub track on my Dragon Boxes (as that is already the only one of the dub tracks included by default given the release's aim) it doesn't sound nearly as unfitting even though the old dub was initially done with the replacement score in mind.

At least with that, you don't have an unlistenably horrendous score playing nonstop every waking second even though the dub itself still ranges from awful at worst to mediocre at best.

[Psajdak]

iKaos stuff look great on CRT PC monitor.

[Planetnamek]

The singles are certainly "purer" from a dubbing perspective. The remastered dub post ep 67 is a mixed bag. It's arguably more "consistent" with the remastered dub pre ep 68, and is meant to be paired with it in the same way the original dub was meant to be paired with the Saban dub, but internal consistency is worse. Even ignoring cases where relatively new recordings are interacting with old recordings, you have moments with missing filters, alternate takes on old material, dialogue that wasn't originally there before, missing dialogue, etc. It's fairly close, and these errors are arguably minor on the grand scheme of things, but still. Apparently the audio mixes (5.1 Kikuchi and 2.0 Johnson/Falconer) used for the Season Blu-rays and apparently reused 30th Anniversary/Steelbox Blu-rays are better on this front than the equivalent mixes for the Orange Bricks, which were apparently reused for the Funimation Dragon Boxes (Kikuchi only) and Level sets.

So, as for video quality. The biggest problem with the singles is low bitrate. Personality, I don't know how bad it gets, but apparently the macro blocking can get really bad at times. The 30th Anniversary sets don't have this problem, but the master is worse than even the singles master due to the combination of DNR and sharpening utterly destroying detail. The picture quality is a little better than the Season Blu-rays, and unlike them retains the 4:3 aspect ratio, but both of those are really low bars (no pun intended, since both the Level Blu-rays and the 30th Anniversary Blu-rays are pillarboxed)

I've heard some say that the VHS tapes actually have better visual quality then the DVD singles, and having owned a few of the tapes myself I certainly don't see a huge difference between the two visually. So if you don't want to buy some of the pricier DVD singles and you have a working VCR, i'd recommend the tapes as they are considerably cheaper(Even the uncut ones)

I understand it’s partially because I’m not a Faulconer fan but I’m not sure why the placement matters so much. It’s not like the score fit better in the original English dub. There’s quite a bit of “laugh at this joke goddamit they’re making a funny you stupid child!” Music stings in the original Funi dub that I think the partial redub actually removed?


I understand wanting “the most authentic nostalgic English dub experience” but if you just want to watch the dub with the Faulconer score the steelbooks and 30th anniversary sets are there

I think the dub is at least a little more bearable with the Kikuchi score, although that still doesn't really make the dub better in of itself quality wise. Even though as far as DBZ in English goes i personally stick with Kai on the rare times where i'll occasionally watch Z proper with the dub track on my Dragon Boxes (as that is already the only one of the dub tracks included by default given the release's aim) it doesn't sound nearly as unfitting even though the old dub was initially done with the replacement score in mind.

At least with that, you don't have an unlistenably horrendous score playing nonstop every waking second even though the dub itself still ranges from awful at worst to mediocre at best.

I can see how some would find that annoying. But for me it always sounds weird to hear extended periods of silence in animated media, I grew up with western-animated films and shows so Faulconer's score never sounded out of place to me.

For the Ocean dub I ended up finding a fan redub that used Dragon Box footage with audio from the Ocean Dub, so i'd recommend seeking that out as I found it to be a superior experience to the original Ocean singles.

[ZombieVito]

I guess this is the best place to ask this.

Is there any info that Funi will release these Steelbook blurays of the 30th anniversary on normal cases?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I guess this is the best place to ask this.

Is there any info that Funi will release these Steelbook blurays of the 30th anniversary on normal cases?

Nothing announced yet, but with Funimation's history of re-releasing this series again and again, don't be surprised if they do.

Though, if you really want the 30th remaster the Manga UK Blu-Rays have it and work on US Blu-Ray players.

[Trachta10]

I think if you fix the oversaturation, the fake grain, and the edge halos this release is not that bad

Spoiler:

[TheGreatness25]

I think if you fix the oversaturation, the fake grain, and the edge halos this release is not that bad

Spoiler:

How do you fix the fake grain?

I agree, though. I'm not well-versed in video analytics. I wouldn't notice that the clouds are blurred, for example. To me, I just look at it and if it looks okay, I'm happy. I think that the 30th anniversary release looks okay. But, knowing that it's not okay takes away from it for me. I think that the process should have been better because regardless of how it turned out looking, blurring and taking away grain should not be normalized.

[MasenkoHA]

I guess this is the best place to ask this.

Is there any info that Funi will release these Steelbook blurays of the 30th anniversary on normal cases?

They’ll probably use those masters for FunimationNoe by 2023, honestly.

[Char Aznable]

If you want the true definitive U.S. broadcast experience, the only way to go are the DVD singles. For the Saiyan and first half of the Freeza arcs (or the 'Namek arc' I guess you can call it?) it will be far cheaper to go for the old singles versus the Rock the Dragon set, and I think they look a little bit better too despite missing the dub previews and recaps. I know they're edited down, but again, that's how they were presented here. I could be wrong but did Cartoon Network even finish airing the UUE redubs? I think they stopped right after arriving on Namek.

Everything after that you have to go with the old singles. Even if you ignore the atrocious video of the orange bricks, the audio tracks have some redubbing by Chris Sabat in particular and I'm sure some others, so you no longer get to enjoy his...wonderful Brian Drummond impression. The Blu-ray releases in both aspect ratios have the same audio track, the original wasn't even included as a bonus in the anniversary set which kind of surprised me.

I guess this is the best place to ask this.

Is there any info that Funi will release these Steelbook blurays of the 30th anniversary on normal cases?

No info, but I think it's highly likely it's going to happen especially after they decided to re-release it as steelbooks in the first place, so the 'exclusiveness' of it is worn off already. I think it'll be their new streaming footage too. I know this is an unpopular opinion but if they put these out for $10-$15 a pop like they have with their current widescreen season sets, I think it's a great way to own the series that doesn't involve destroying your bank account. Is it a good remaster? No, it's plagued with problems. Was it worth the price they were asking for with the boxset? Absolutely not, that thing was atrocious and I experienced that first hand, I'm happy I got to return it. Putting it out on steelbooks at $40 each is still overpriced.

But at $15 a season? YES! The widescreen versions should be obliterated from existence! That's my opinion, anyway.