Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

precita
Banned
Posts: 6037
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by precita » Mon May 03, 2021 10:18 am

Kinda ironic when you stop to think about it the Pokemon anime started in 1997 which is right after GT ended. Many of Dragonballs animators and writers like Iwane and Matsui continued directly into Pokemon after. As for Pokemon the series was effected by the worldwide fad status it achieved after Kanto finished airing which is why Johto dumbed the show down and got plagued with repetitive filler because they couldn't make it a plot-driven series anymore and a lot of the darker aspects of the original Kanto season were done away with. I also imagine removing Misty's temper and making her more motherly and subdued in Johto was a result of this, before the writers realized she was expendable altogether and axed her 20 years ago now.

Besides that I also think anime Brock's personality was loosely modeled after a mix of Yamcha and Roshi, meaning the guy who is always trying to get a date but failing. Of course Brock isn't anywhere as perverted as the other two since Pokemon is aimed at kids, but Brock is a more toned down version.

Dbzfan94
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 5673
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:16 pm
Location: Mt. Paozu

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Thu May 06, 2021 6:53 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:38 am 11 years is long by any normal standards. Thank God it didn’t turn into One Piece or Pokemon.
Sadly it has now.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by ABED » Thu May 06, 2021 6:59 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:53 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:38 am 11 years is long by any normal standards. Thank God it didn’t turn into One Piece or Pokemon.
Sadly it has now.
I wouldn't say that. It takes breaks.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by Skar » Tue May 11, 2021 4:27 am

ABED wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 6:59 pmI wouldn't say that. It takes breaks.
Yeah it's definitely not as much as the original or other long running series in terms of how much content has been released in the same time frame. By the time we reach the ten year anniversary of BoG, we would've had four full-length movies, a few relatively short arcs in an anime with fewer episodes than DB or Kai, and two additional arcs in the manga that might be covered in the anime a few years later. I think it's still far from being another year-round toy/game based anime that continues for decades. The closest we have to that is Heroes which is only a short promotional anime released once a month only in Japan.

User avatar
Yuli Ban
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 797
Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2015 9:07 am
Location: New Orleans, LA
Contact:

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by Yuli Ban » Mon May 24, 2021 7:01 pm

Only soap operas, slice of life stories, and comic serials can truly be evergreen and get away with it. And even they end (though usually for sales reasons).

Dragon Ball's original run made it the longest running animated series at the time (if I recall correctly, which I may not be). And it went well beyond the moon in its success. It lasted longer than it should have— I personally feel Cell was a more than fine ending place. But last it did, and it went out well enough. You could have grown up with the series.
The Yabanverse
My own take on Saiyajins in a fanverse.

User avatar
Skar
I Live Here
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:04 pm
Location: US

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by Skar » Mon May 24, 2021 7:58 pm

Yuli Ban wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:01 pmDragon Ball's original run made it the longest running animated series at the time (if I recall correctly, which I may not be).
It was one of the longest running anime at the time. Sazae-san began in 1969 and Doraemon in 1973 and still ongoing. Now DB as a whole is the 23th anime franchise by episode count and 3rd after Naruto and OP if you count only serialized anime where the protagonist is allowed to age. The top 20 is mostly made up of slice of life anime for young kids like Sazae-san or toy-based franchises like Gundam and Yugioh. Convenient Wikipedia list!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... sode_count

User avatar
Tylerman29
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 225
Joined: Tue May 23, 2017 7:43 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by Tylerman29 » Sat May 29, 2021 4:10 pm

Only 10 years? That's a long time. It ended at the right time also..until Toei saw dollar signs and decided to pump out the soulless modern mediocrity we have now. I really think GT was a solid last breath for the franchise and was clearly a sign that the franchise had exhausted its potential. God Ki and multiple universes do nothing for me.
DB, Z, and GT subbed are my "canon".
SSJ4 > Any transformation in Super.

User avatar
Planetnamek
Banned
Posts: 936
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:05 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:10 am
KBABZ wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:49 am
JulieYBM wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 10:38 am I'm not surprised because the manner in which the series was handled by the anime staff really showed a lack of interest in operating in a very large box of ideas. Eventually they were going to collapse.
From what I've heard the head writer had bigger plans and ideas for the anime but was constantly stifled by upper management, hence why the opening Kanto season in particular has stronger story ideas and moments compared to after that point (he left mid-way through Johto).
Apparently the upper suits at OLM constantly hamstrung the writers, and at times pushed stupid things such as their "brilliant" idea to replace Brock/Takeshi in the Orange Islands arc with Tracey Sketchit/Kenji a few episodes in. They did this according to Takeshi Shudo on his blog back in 2009 because the former was thought in that case to be too "Japanese looking" and people on our side of the world wouldn't like him. Thankfully those upper management people saw the error in their decision eventually realizing Brock was actually a popular character in the West and thus ultimately brought back full time near the end of that season.

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparis ... ep083.html
Interesting, did not know that was the reason for bringing in Tracey. As a kid I never thought of Brock as Japanese looking, so I find that reasoning kind of funny. I never disliked Tracey and he served his purpose well enough, but his character was clearly never going to endure in popularity.
"Why run away from something you're not afraid of?" - Goku

User avatar
SuperSaiyaManZ94
I Live Here
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:49 pm

Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:05 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:10 am
KBABZ wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:49 am
From what I've heard the head writer had bigger plans and ideas for the anime but was constantly stifled by upper management, hence why the opening Kanto season in particular has stronger story ideas and moments compared to after that point (he left mid-way through Johto).
Apparently the upper suits at OLM constantly hamstrung the writers, and at times pushed stupid things such as their "brilliant" idea to replace Brock/Takeshi in the Orange Islands arc with Tracey Sketchit/Kenji a few episodes in. They did this according to Takeshi Shudo on his blog back in 2009 because the former was thought in that case to be too "Japanese looking" and people on our side of the world wouldn't like him. Thankfully those upper management people saw the error in their decision eventually realizing Brock was actually a popular character in the West and thus ultimately brought back full time near the end of that season.

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparis ... ep083.html
Interesting, did not know that was the reason for bringing in Tracey. As a kid I never thought of Brock as Japanese looking, so I find that reasoning kind of funny. I never disliked Tracey and he served his purpose well enough, but his character was clearly never going to endure in popularity.
I was shocked to discover that's the reasoning behind why Brock/Takeshi got sidelined during the majority of Orange Islands and it honestly is ridiculous that the higher ups decided to do this (though it ended up being temporary) based upon such assumptions and although Tracey/Kenji wasn't that bad of a character it was obvious he was a mandated insert by the executives at OLM and he was never going to have the same level of popularity as the former.

Tracey hasn't had too many appearances in the series in recent years, i guess he ultimately didn't prove to be all that popular of a character as time passed.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:54 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:49 pm
Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:05 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:10 am

Apparently the upper suits at OLM constantly hamstrung the writers, and at times pushed stupid things such as their "brilliant" idea to replace Brock/Takeshi in the Orange Islands arc with Tracey Sketchit/Kenji a few episodes in. They did this according to Takeshi Shudo on his blog back in 2009 because the former was thought in that case to be too "Japanese looking" and people on our side of the world wouldn't like him. Thankfully those upper management people saw the error in their decision eventually realizing Brock was actually a popular character in the West and thus ultimately brought back full time near the end of that season.

https://dogasu.bulbagarden.net/comparis ... ep083.html
Interesting, did not know that was the reason for bringing in Tracey. As a kid I never thought of Brock as Japanese looking, so I find that reasoning kind of funny. I never disliked Tracey and he served his purpose well enough, but his character was clearly never going to endure in popularity.
I was shocked to discover that's the reasoning behind why Brock/Takeshi got sidelined during the majority of Orange Islands and it honestly is ridiculous that the higher ups decided to do this (though it ended up being temporary) based upon such assumptions and although Tracey/Kenji wasn't that bad of a character it was obvious he was a mandated insert by the executives at OLM and he was never going to have the same level of popularity as the former.

Tracey hasn't had too many appearances in the series in recent years, i guess he ultimately didn't prove to be all that popular of a character as time passed.
Kenji had a small, un-voiced cameo in an episode that aired recently. Who knows, maybe he'll come back soon to have a role in an episode before the 2019 series ends.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
SuperSaiyaManZ94
I Live Here
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:04 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:54 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:49 pm
Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:05 am

Interesting, did not know that was the reason for bringing in Tracey. As a kid I never thought of Brock as Japanese looking, so I find that reasoning kind of funny. I never disliked Tracey and he served his purpose well enough, but his character was clearly never going to endure in popularity.
I was shocked to discover that's the reasoning behind why Brock/Takeshi got sidelined during the majority of Orange Islands and it honestly is ridiculous that the higher ups decided to do this (though it ended up being temporary) based upon such assumptions and although Tracey/Kenji wasn't that bad of a character it was obvious he was a mandated insert by the executives at OLM and he was never going to have the same level of popularity as the former.

Tracey hasn't had too many appearances in the series in recent years, i guess he ultimately didn't prove to be all that popular of a character as time passed.
Kenji had a small, un-voiced cameo in an episode that aired recently. Who knows, maybe he'll come back soon to have a role in an episode before the 2019 series ends.
Yeah, it's just he hasn't had a speaking appearance of any great significance in years. Maybe they'll have him appear and actually get more than a quick cameo.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

precita
Banned
Posts: 6037
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by precita » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:23 pm

The real reason Tracey doesn't appear anymore is he's not from any of the games so the writers have no reason to show him. Most of the kids watching the show today had never watched Orange Islands (obviously, that saga aired in 1998-1999), and since he's not from any games he has no reason to be showcased.

For example Dawn recently returned for a 2-part cameo in the current anime because the writers are gearing up to advertise the DP remakes in the fall. It's the same reason Misty disappeared after Hoenn until the 20th anniversary and Let's Go games came out in 2017-2018. The writers allow characters to be forgotten until they want to use them again.

User avatar
SuperSaiyaManZ94
I Live Here
Posts: 2712
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:01 pm
Location: Alabama, USA

Re: Anyone surprised the original run of Dragon Ball/DBZ/GT only lasted about 10 years?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:31 pm

precita wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:23 pm The real reason Tracey doesn't appear anymore is he's not from any of the games so the writers have no reason to show him. Most of the kids watching the show today had never watched Orange Islands (obviously, that saga aired in 1998-1999), and since he's not from any games he has no reason to be showcased.

For example Dawn recently returned for a 2-part cameo in the current anime because the writers are gearing up to advertise the DP remakes in the fall. It's the same reason Misty disappeared after Hoenn until the 20th anniversary and Let's Go games came out in 2017-2018. The writers allow characters to be forgotten until they want to use them again.
Yes, it's largely because his relevance in the series ended after that arc and the second movie (he's only made occasional cameos as Prof. Oak's assistant since then at least up to a certain point) and being an anime exclusive creation with having no game equivalent. A lot of younger people watching within the period of the last decade or so wouldn't know who he is unlike those fans my age who grew up during the OG series run and also with the original trio of Ash, Brock and Misty. It's the same story with May as she hasn't appeared much at all since coming back for that small arc (sans Max) back when Diamond and Pearl was airing and Max either given he was phased out after Battle Frontier.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

Post Reply